Only 20 miles max range on new E mountain bike

[Windward]

I just bought a new Giant Full E+ 2018, great bike but a bit dissapointing with range. I had read many reviews before buying this one, but it is very confusing what the actual range will be until you try it. The thing is that in the reviews I compared different brands with similar equipment similar watts and similar “Ah” but the range stated on different brands has no relation to this. I understand that range is a function of weight, terrain, wind etc, but in the actual reviews they should at least use the same parameters when the equipment has the same watts and Ah.

I bought this bike to ride here at the Appalachian North Carolina mountains, I am 200 lbs 60 years old I don’t ride in challenging trails but I ride in gravel and dirt roads. These roads are not very steep as they are made for cars, the steepest uphill I have ride was a 2000 feet altitude gain in about 9 miles. So for example a ride through back roads from Linville N.C. to Blowing Rock which is according to any map 18 to 20 Miles and only a 100 feet gain in altitude, but up and down roads I can hardly make it one way, at times the battery runs out before I get there.

I would appreciate ideas how to extend the range. The main reasons I ride are to explore, get out of the house, do exercise, enjoy nature etc etc. I don’t like to ride close to cars or in traffic areas. In Miami where is flat and I can ride a non electric bike for 40 miles at times longer via bike routes. Here I enjoy the mountains and the back roads but I need a longer range than 20 miles. This limits my outings to 10 miles each way if my Wife can’t pick me up. If I could achieve 15 miles minimum each way would be great so 30 miles total.

Can I upgrade the battery on this Giant ebike? Would that extend the range and how longer? Should I consider those ebikes with regenerative systems that recharge the battery while going downhill? These are also confusing about their claims of extended range.

Any ideas, suggestions experiences about extending range are welcome.

 

[VirgilCaine]

What level of assist are you riding in ? Huge difference in battery consumption from low to high. That 2000 feet altitude gain in 9 miles is the culprit.

 

[JRA]

In order to get regen you must use a Direct Drive motor which is a totally different system than your E+. With a 500wh battery and 20 miles you are averaging 25wh/mile which is a pretty high number for any modern mid drive due to their overall efficiency. In fact there is a recent post on here about a guy who claims he gets 125 miles out of a 500wh battery on the road version of the E+ which is only 4wh/mi..

15wh/mi seems to be about the median wattage use across the board. Some will do less and others more dependent on terrain, atmospheric conditions, overall speed and combined weight. As you don't state the amount of assist you are using and the average speed you are doing it is hard to really tell what is going on.

 

[rich c]

Are you shifting to stay at optimum cadence? What speed are you maintaining? Huge difference in range when running 14mph vs 20mph. If you are only talking about 100 feet gain, regenerative wouldn't give you much improvement. No idea what pack size you have now, not familiar with Giant. Didn't you talk to the dealer about batteries when you bought it? Of course a larger battery pack will increase range.

 

[dean1]

I bought this bike to ride here at the Appalachian North Carolina mountains, I am 200 lbs 60 years old I don’t ride in challenging trails but I ride in gravel and dirt roads. These roads are not very steep as they are made for cars, the steepest uphill I have ride was a 2000 feet altitude gain in about 9 miles. So for example a ride through back roads from Linville N.C. to Blowing Rock which is according to any map 18 to 20 Miles and only a 100 feet gain in altitude, but up and down roads I can hardly make it one way, at times the battery runs out before I get there..

I took a quick look at your route and I believe I see the issue. While there is only 100' difference in elevation between the two points, there is about 1500 - 1600 ft of total ascent along the way, most of it within the first half of the trip. If you are using a lot of assist up that incline can suck the juice right out of the battery. Additionally, gravel and dirt will increase drag compared to asphalt reducing battery range. Please check your route to verify my quickie check..

The stock battery seems a little small for today's standards -- 36V, 11.3Ah? -- if you are going long distances over hills.

 

[VirgilCaine]

yea, right off the bat there is a big climb from Linville to Grandfather Mountain on 221. A longer but more gradual route would be going up Roseboro road, but still alot of climbing either way.

 

[dean1]

yea, right off the bat there is a big climb from Linville to Grandfather Mountain on 221. A longer but more gradual route would be going up Roseboro road, but still alot of climbing either way.

I chose Blue Ridge Pkwy https://goo.gl/maps/eNLLs6L24452

 

[PowerMe]

This is what I experience with my 36v 12 (actually 11.6ah) battery, except I don't ride on those kind of hills. But if I did, I'd only get 20mi range. As it is, I can reliably get 28m range, as long as I'm able to stay in a combo of Eco/Standard most of the time.

You'll need to get a 2nd battery if you choose to stay with this ebike.

 

[Windward]

This is what I experience with my 36v 12 (actually 11.6ah) battery, except I don't ride on those kind of hills. But if I did, I'd only get 20mi range. As it is, I can reliably get 28m range, as long as I'm able to stay in a combo of Eco/Standard most of the time.

You'll need to get a 2nd battery if you choose to stay with this ebike.

Thanks, for the answer, getting a second battery is an option and carry it in back pack. The Giant Full E+ comes with a 400 W battery, it was $3,500 the 500 w is about $ 5000. The local dealer has offered I return the bike for a restocking fee, I am comsidering that if there is a considerable better solution at least a 30% improvement in range.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Thanks, for the answer, getting a second battery is an option and carry it in back pack. The Giant Full E+ comes with a 400 W battery, it was $3,500 the 500 w is about $ 5000. The local dealer has offered I return the bike for a restocking fee, I am comsidering that if there is a considerable better solution at least a 30% improvement in range.

If you return it, you might want to consider an e road bike rather than a full suspension e-mtb...your bike is overkill for that road.

 

[Windward]

Thanks for the suggestions, to clarify some concepts. my intention is ride at least 15 miles away from home and come back so 30 miles total. Most routes will involve small gains in elevation but will involve ups and downs that usually are about 2000 feet within 10 miles. I am carefull about energy consumption. Most of the time I have it off or eco as much as I can, only use normal or sport when the slope is up for more than 5 minutes and I need assistance. I know is hard to know how strong I can pedal but I am careful to engage in the right gear and I am not looking for speed nor I can go too fast going up, usually about 7 miles. Downhill I don’t like going faster than 25 miles as these back roads have rocks, lose travel and multiple challenges. I am in fairly good shape, not a professsional biker but in flat areas I can ride long trips. As somebody suggested I could use the blue ridge parkway, but that is a paved road full of cars and would have to change it to a road bike. I Bourguiba a mountain bike to ride in back roads, tat rarely see a car and be able to do go to trails that ares like New River bike trail that is about 50 miles or Virginia creeper trail that has a manageable steep as it used to be an old coal train path. I have done it many times in a regular bike.
I am open to even to return the new Giant full E bike and assume a restocking fee if there is going to be a considerable Improvement in another bike. I am trying to find out if I can change the battery that the bike comes 400w 36 volt 11.3 Ah for the larger 500 w one, so far they don’t have just batteries for sale and can’t answer if it would fit mine. If I can’t find a reasonable way to improve the range, I will follow the advise of Power Me that suggested I carry a second battery.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Thanks for the suggestions, to clarify some concepts. my intention is ride at least 15 miles away from home and come back so 30 miles total. Most routes will involve small gains in elevation but will involve ups and downs that usually are about 2000 feet within 10 miles. I am carefull about energy consumption. Most of the time I have it off or eco as much as I can, only use normal or sport when the slope is up for more than 5 minutes and I need assistance. I know is hard to know how strong I can pedal but I am careful to engage in the right gear and I am not looking for speed nor I can go too fast going up, usually about 7 miles. Downhill I don’t like going faster than 25 miles as these back roads have rocks, lose travel and multiple challenges. I am in fairly good shape, not a professsional biker but in flat areas I can ride long trips. As somebody suggested I could use the blue ridge parkway, but that is a paved road full of cars and would have to change it to a road bike. I Bourguiba a mountain bike to ride in back roads, tat rarely see a car and be able to do go to trails that ares like New River bike trail that is about 50 miles or Virginia creeper trail that has a manageable steep as it used to be an old coal train path. I have done it many times in a regular bike.
I am open to even to return the new Giant full E bike and assume a restocking fee if there is going to be a considerable Improvement in another bike. I am trying to find out if I can change the battery that the bike comes 400w 36 volt 11.3 Ah for the larger 500 w one, so far they don’t have just batteries for sale and can’t answer if it would fit mine. If I can’t find a reasonable way to improve the range, I will follow the advise of Power Me that suggested I carry a second battery.

Try this bike. It is much more suited for riding on gravel and light off-road and with 500Whr powerpack, Bosch CX drive, you may be able to go little farther. Yamaha Sync drive on the Giant is a wonderful system but it may not be a good system for everyone.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...rfly/powerfly-5/p/21979/?colorCode=grey_black

 

[VirgilCaine]

Thanks, for the answer, getting a second battery is an option and carry it in back pack. The Giant Full E+ comes with a 400 W battery, it was $3,500 the 500 w is about $ 5000. The local dealer has offered I return the bike for a restocking fee, I am comsidering that if there is a considerable better solution at least a 30% improvement in range.

Unless you really need the full suspension, the Dirt-E models have 500w for alot cheaper price, not to mention the ToughRoad models.

 

[Windward]

Try this bike. It is much more suited for riding on gravel and light off-road and with 500Whr powerpack, Bosch CX drive, you may be able to go little farther. Yamaha Sync drive on the Giant is a wonderful system but it may not be a good system for everyone.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...rfly/powerfly-5/p/21979/?colorCode=grey_black

Thanks, it seem a nice bike, I did check the Trek it when I was looking, but as compulsive I am to try something I bought the giant because the local dealer carry that brand and the bike was there. I also tried the specialized that is carried by another dealer. The short 30 minute rides I did in both impresssed me as it was the first time I use an ebike in the mountains. Both could climb walls. The problem I did not ride it long enough to realize the range issue and I was much less informed about ranges that I am now. I did not think that was an issue for any ebike and my 30 mile need. I think there is a bit of confusion out there about range and because all claim more than they actually do is hard to make an informed decision. None of the forums I researched mentioned a range issue like mine. Most mention ranges that of 40 or more miles. The Giant full e I have shows 77 miles in eco, 61 miles in normal and 45 miles in sport when fully charged. I guess those are in a flat paved road with a 150 lbs experienced rider in very good shape.

 

[Windward]

Unless you really need the full suspension, the Dirt-E models have 500w for alot cheaper price, not to mention the ToughRoad models.

Virgil you are right I should get the dirt e models. I bought the full e only because is the one they had in the floor, any other had to be ordered and could take a week or 10 days to have and I did not see much benefit from the 400 and 500 w battery. Now I know. For my defense, there is not much information about there on riding mountains. And all the claims 400w or even less seemed to be more than enough for my needs of 30 miles around here. This Giant full e shows 77 miles in eco 61 in normal and 45 miles in sport. I was not looking for full suspension, but the salesman said, for the same price I would have the benefit of more comfort. He was correct in that sense but not on range, much better would have been no full suspension and larger battery.

 

[VirgilCaine]

This Giant full e shows 77 miles in eco 61 in normal and 45 miles in sport.

They should know better. Anyone who pays extra money for a full suspension bike is getting it for the ups and downs, so those figures are completely bogus. If you using the bike as intended (singletrack) in the mountains, I doubt you would even get 15 miles on a full charge.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I wish there was a way to do a search on the EBR database for battery size. I've looked; there isn't. That would be a great way to narrow down your search.

You could look at the Category tab on the home page, and look at 28 mph Speed Pedelecs. Some of those bikes have options for larger batteries -- the Juiced Bikes CrossCurrent S being a prime example -- and might fit your other needs as well.

Too bad Juiced Bikes isn't making the ODK any more -- huge battery, lots of torque for those hills -- check this video out!

 

[Windward]

Thanks very much, I called the dealer and they will see if they can change the bike for the dirt e model that doesn't have full suspension but has a 500 battery as Virgil recommended, probably the answer will come with a cost, but it is my fault.
As I mentioned there wasn't much information about range on riding on mountains, now I know and hopefully my experience will help future buyers.
I can attest that the power is there. Before I bought this Giant I tested two ebikes; Specialized and Giant on different roads that I would have not been able to go up all the way riding. For me that was the reason I was buying an ebike, if the ebike could help take my 205 Lbs (at times 215 Lbs) where I couldn't before, that was the big difference for me. I did not think range was going to be an issue as every manufacturer claim 40 or more miles, some up to 80 miles.

If it helps others I can attest that a bike with a 36v, 400w 11.3 AH battery was able to help me go from Linville NC to Blowing Rock NC via Globe NC (back dirt roads no direct paved roads) ( check google). The first 5.9 miles all going up I was able to do it with eco or no assist and had 89% battery (see picture) at the top then all the way down for about 12 miles assist off to Globe NC and then all the way up to Blowing Rock for 8 miles with a gain of 2000 feet engaging gears and mostly at the highest setting and mid level when possible, but the whole time with assist on until the battery was drained when I arrived. After about sections the assist has to be off. So with planing and control of usage I was able to do 20-22 mile trips around here. Any longer range claim in this environment is fantasy.

I would love to hear some experiences with the range on Mountains on those bikes that re-charge while going downhill. I was not able to find any experiences, only what the manufacturer claims that the battery can re charge 15% more. But I already learned not believe in manufactures claims.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Oh Jeez, I can't believe you are taking that route, there's alot of climbing after you cross the bridge at Graggs, and then going up the globe road...500 wh may not be enough. I'm not even sure that my bike with 600wh would make it. If the LBS is going to rake you over the coals, just get another battery.

 

[Windward]

Oh Jeez, I can't believe you are taking that route, there's alot of climbing after you cross the bridge at Graggs, and then going up the globe road...500 wh may not be enough. I'm not even sure that my bike with 600wh would make it. If the LBS is going to rake you over the coals, just get another battery.

Thanks it is not so hard and I was able to do it with this bike, just managing usage. Hopefully with the 500 I will be able to go further. The Giant display helps, I have created a formula that whatever it says in sport that has left, I divided it by 5 when uphill, so it it says 35 miles is actually 7 miles, so as you can see in the picture that says 40 miles on sport is actually 8 miles left. I'll do it again tomorrow if it doesn't rain.