Ok, I get it now...

[opimax]

I am surprised when any rider doesn’t where gloves. This is because for me it was such a large change in riding comfort. The largest change was for my back and shoulders not my hands. I was able to move my hands to many more positions of comfort or maybe a position I wouldn’t have used.changed my posture on my bike. It was a BIG deal at the time for me so of course it should be a big deal for everyone else (sarcasm on the last sentence) . If you are better fitted than I was maybe it wont be such a big deal for anyone else.

I got them the day before I went for my 1st over night ride(week) which was on the Katy trail.

Ps for the record I don’t sweat much

 

[AHicks]

I am surprised when any rider doesn’t where gloves. This is because for me it was such a large change in riding comfort. The largest change was for my back and shoulders not my hands. I was able to move my hands to many more positions of comfort or maybe a position I wouldn’t have used.changed my posture on my bike. It was a BIG deal at the time for me so of course it should be a big deal for everyone else (sarcasm on the last sentence) . If you are better fitted than I was maybe it wont be such a big deal for anyone else.

I got them the day before I went for my 1st over night ride(week) which was on the Katy trail.

Ps for the record I don’t sweat much

That's a good point worth considering. 75% or more of my rides won't be more than 10 miles. If I were going (if I was able to go) on all day or multi day rides, It's not hard for me to imagine the need for gloves. Another factor, possibly, is my hands are pretty leathery. Used to all sorts of abuse....

 

[kahn]

I am surprised when any rider doesn’t where gloves. This is because for me it was such a large change in riding comfort. The largest change was for my back and shoulders not my hands. I was able to move my hands to many more positions of comfort or maybe a position I wouldn’t have used.changed my posture on my bike. It was a BIG deal at the time for me so of course it should be a big deal for everyone else (sarcasm on the last sentence) . If you are better fitted than I was maybe it wont be such a big deal for anyone else.

I got them the day before I went for my 1st over night ride(week) which was on the Katy trail.

Ps for the record I don’t sweat much

Also, while no one ever falls (!!!), they make good backup protection in the event something untoward, like a fall, occurs. I feel almost naked if I don't have my gloves on. Plus mine do have some gel padding for a bit of added comfort. Then again, I've also added gloves after years of hiking without them. Both biking and hiking they protect from sunburn which was a real problem in the high altitude Dolomites.

 

[opimax]

Try them as noted above just for the protection if nothing else , it was such a big deal to me then, as always ymmv

 

[Avg_Joe]

I got some warm-weather 1/2 finger gloves w/ gel pads yesterday, will ride with them today and hope things are better! I did wear gloves last fall and winter (as much as we have winter here) into spring, but then sweat wasn't much of an issue...

 

[Avg_Joe]

I've been riding the Vado most every day, the gloves have proven to be a lifesaver (not literally) - I'll stick with them year-round.

Getting back to one thing I wanted to change - handlebars that are roughly 1" higher and come back a bit - I opted to do my research and find a pair that might work. Due to the Vado stem uniqueness, I decided on bars vs stem risers, adjustable stems, etc. I landed on the Spoon Spank with 60mm rise (https://spank-ind.com/products/spoon-bar?variant=8111838658674) at ~$45/shipped. Seemed a reasonable risk...

Upon mounting them, I found (with the bike level side-to-side and the fork locked):

• Taping a string to the each end of the stock bar vs Spoon, and measuring from from that string to the nose of the seat, the new bars are 1/2" closer to me/the seat (19" stock bar, 18.5" Spoon bar);
• Stock bars were 42" from ground to the bottom of each end. The Spank Spoon is 43".
• The Spank bars are approx. 4cm wider than stock, and I felt this immediately.

These bars are way too wide for me at 785mm, but they are adjustable to any size. I'll continue riding and trim them down to find the best width for me. I may also pivot them up a bit for a position that is more comfortable.

For the cost, this has been a great experiment and I believe with some minor tweaks, I'll have the ideal riding position.

Stupid photo of how I measured:

What they look like, yawn:

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Joe: For some reason, I have missed your interesting thread. Congratulations!

My Vado is of course very different from yours. Yes, I have enhanced it with some features... After 2 years of riding my Vado and big mileage, I have eventually discovered I was wrong related to some mods I made For example, I noticed raising the bars turned out to be bad for my ass on long rides... I am a convert now and have lowered handlebars in my both Specialized e-bikes as much as possible! That moved my body weight off the saddle. I use SQlab Innerbarends now to comfortably lean on the bars. And... I returned to the originally specified Specialized Electrak 2.0 tyres for my big Vado.

I do not suggest doing anything similar to you: our bikes are different and both of us are different

In one of your early posts you wrote you were happy to ride in Eco. Honestly, riding in Turbo on the flat feels like I'm cheating! My Highway Star behaves as it were a lightweight motorcycle when in Turbo! Climbing steep hills is another matter...

Many happy miles!

 

[Avg_Joe]

My Vado is of course very different from yours. Yes, I have enhanced it with some features... After 2 years of riding my Vado and big mileage, I have eventually discovered I was wrong related to some mods I made For example, I noticed raising the bars turned out to be bad for my ass on long rides... I am a convert now and have lowered handlebars in my both Specialized e-bikes as much as possible! That moved my body weight off the saddle. I use SQlab Innerbarends now to comfortably lean on the bars. And... I returned to the originally specified Specialized Electrak 2.0 tyres for my big Vado.

I do not suggest doing anything similar to you: our bikes are different and both of us are different

In one of your early posts you wrote you were happy to ride in Eco. Honestly, riding in Turbo on the flat feels like I'm cheating! My Highway Star behaves as it were a lightweight motorcycle when in Turbo! Climbing steep hills is another matter...

Many happy miles!

Thank you so much, @Stefan Mikes This thing is such a treat to ride, and I still do not use Turbo (except for one very steep and short hill). I am trying to temper excitement about modifications: any change seems great at first, but the truth will come out only after many miles later. The Hurricane tires and pedals are 2 changes that were immediately wow! and have been that way ever since, though. We shall see on these handlebars, I am not sold yet but have to fine tune. I did see you mention the SQLabs inner bar-ends previously and I'm thinking about them.....

I've learned a lot from your threads here, and again thank you for being so forthcoming and willing to share your wisdom.

 

[Mike Moore]

And... I returned to the originally specified Specialized Electrak 2.0 tyres for my big Vado.

Just curious, why did you revert to the Elacktrak tires? Didn't you have Schwalbe Johnny Watts at one time?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just curious, why did you revert to the Elacktrak tires? Didn't you have Schwalbe Johnny Watts at one time?

My Vado 5.0 (MY 2017) is quite a special e-bike. It was designed as a Euro S-Pedelec that had to be Type Approved to meet the criteria required from a moped. Unique thing in that very model is a rigid fork. Since 2018, Vado 6.0 meeting the same criteria (but with a suspension fork and different axles) has been produced. Electrak 2.0 is the Type Approved tyre for MY17 Vado 5.0 and all Vados 6.0 but it is not the most important thing.

All S-Pedelecs I mentioned come with 29" wheels. The fender tolerances are very tight and the maximum tyre size is 2" there; the condition is such a tyre cannot have knobs to fit. I was riding on Smart Sam 47-622 for a long time, and was swapping them for Schwalbe Winter Plus in a similar size for the winter. However, I could not fail noticing my Vado was decidedly slower on Schwalbe tyres than it was on Electraks! It gave me some thinking...

After I reverted to Electrak 2.0, I could understand my error:

• Electraks are almost slick tyres. The addition of the Gripton compound makes them improbably fast rolling (Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss have very similar properties)
• The same Gripton compound ensures great grip. I experience no issues riding on slippery surfaces (e.g. asphalt during rainfall), gravel, or even in shallow sand!
• Very low inflation pressure is allowed for tubed Electraks; it is 2 bar or 29 psi. Combined with the good air volume, Electraks dramatically soften harsh rides
• The tyres are supple (similarly to Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss)
• Electrak Armadillos are definitely puncture resistant.

All these factors let me rediscover Electraks to the level I do not want even to think of other warm season tyres for my Vado. Note: The only size available is 51-622 (29x2.0").

 

[Avg_Joe]

Mmmmk, these Spoon Spank bars are 785mm, stock Vado bars are 680mm. Guess I need to keep cutting....

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Mmmmk, these Spoon Spank bars are 785mm, stock Vado bars are 680mm. Guess I need to keep cutting....

You bought MTB bars?!

 

[Avg_Joe]

You bought MTB bars?!

Yes, I suppose. Spank says they can be cut to any length. I've taken 90mm off and they feel good; however I have to travel the next few days and won't get a chance to ride.

 

[rjaTV5]

Joe: For some reason, I have missed your interesting thread. Congratulations!

My Vado is of course very different from yours. Yes, I have enhanced it with some features... After 2 years of riding my Vado and big mileage, I have eventually discovered I was wrong related to some mods I made For example, I noticed raising the bars turned out to be bad for my ass on long rides... I am a convert now and have lowered handlebars in my both Specialized e-bikes as much as possible! That moved my body weight off the saddle. I use SQlab Innerbarends now to comfortably lean on the bars. And... I returned to the originally specified Specialized Electrak 2.0 tyres for my big Vado.

I do not suggest doing anything similar to you: our bikes are different and both of us are different

In one of your early posts you wrote you were happy to ride in Eco. Honestly, riding in Turbo on the flat feels like I'm cheating! My Highway Star behaves as it were a lightweight motorcycle when in Turbo! Climbing steep hills is another matter...

Many happy miles!

I ended up going with the Jones H-Bar with 2.5 inch rise - I like the more upright position on this bike.

 

[Avg_Joe]

My Vado is of course very different from yours. Yes, I have enhanced it with some features... After 2 years of riding my Vado and big mileage, I have eventually discovered I was wrong related to some mods I made For example, I noticed raising the bars turned out to be bad for my ass on long rides... I am a convert now and have lowered handlebars in my both Specialized e-bikes as much as possible! That moved my body weight off the saddle. I use SQlab Innerbarends now to comfortably lean on the bars. And... I returned to the originally specified Specialized Electrak 2.0 tyres for my big Vado.

@Stefan Mikes one thing I wanted to ask you: With those SQLabs inner bar ends, do you use grips that are not as long as the Specialized grips? It seems the inner bar ends need to be placed between the grip and the brake/shifter, just wondering if that impacts ergonomics and brake lever/shifter access? or do you have them inside of the brake levers/shifter (e.g. closer to the stem)?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The order indeed is grip, Innerbarend, brake lever. This setup ensures perfect access to the brake lever, and to the shifter (innermost).

I use both versions of Innerbarends on two different e-bikes. The one with integrated SQlab grip simply doesn't give you another setup choice because it is as designed. I use the universal Innerbarends with shortened Ergon grips on my big Vado. It is because Innerbarends take up a lot of handlebar space.

Once I have learnt riding Innerbarends, I spend most of my ride time with them.

 

[Avg_Joe]

I believe I have zeroed in on the perfect riding position for me, with 1 minor nit: the shift lever.

Spoon Spank bars cut shorter just a bit more than the stock bars. I actually took a bit more off the left side as that seemed to be the sweet spot for me.
I then rotated the bars up as high as possible.
Then, I flipped the Suntour seatpost top mount as documented here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/whats-not-said-about-suntour-ncx-seatpost.48561/
Removed the Ergon GA3 grips, went back to stock Specialized grips.
The only issue is I simply cannot find an ideal position for the shift lever. I broke/mangled my right wrist several years ago in a bicycle wreck, then re-mucked it it in a car accident, and no adjustment seems to work for me.

My hips are now directly over the crank centerline; I am positioned such that I still have the "active" position (body angled at ~45*?); wrists are perfect; hands feel fantastic; arms are almost perfectly straight shoulder-to-wrist. With ~75 mi on this setup, with a long single ride of 16+ mi, I am completely and perfectly comfortable; and ready for much longer rides. I'll keep fussing to see what I can do with the shift lever, but to say I am thrilled is the understatement of the year. Gawd I love riding this Vado!

Pictures might not help, but here's where I am:
"Flipped" seat mount, this is key:

Different view, positioned thusly again my hips are perfectly aligned with crank centerline:

Gratuitous cockpit shot:

 

[GuruUno]

Joe: For some reason, I have missed your interesting thread. Congratulations!

My Vado is of course very different from yours. Yes, I have enhanced it with some features... After 2 years of riding my Vado and big mileage, I have eventually discovered I was wrong related to some mods I made For example, I noticed raising the bars turned out to be bad for my ass on long rides... I am a convert now and have lowered handlebars in my both Specialized e-bikes as much as possible! That moved my body weight off the saddle. I use SQlab Innerbarends now to comfortably lean on the bars. And... I returned to the originally specified Specialized Electrak 2.0 tyres for my big Vado.

I do not suggest doing anything similar to you: our bikes are different and both of us are different

In one of your early posts you wrote you were happy to ride in Eco. Honestly, riding in Turbo on the flat feels like I'm cheating! My Highway Star behaves as it were a lightweight motorcycle when in Turbo! Climbing steep hills is another matter...

Many happy miles!

Riding in Turbo on the flat feels like I'm cheating!
WHO are you cheating??

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Riding in Turbo on the flat feels like I'm cheating!
WHO are you cheating??

Myself. My health.
It takes a really long ride on a full-power Vado to get a workout.

 

[Avg_Joe]

Welp, I am going to end up fiddling with riding position some more, just onaccountabecause. REI has been having a clearance sale and I just bought 2 SQLabs saddles to try, the 602 M-D Active Saddle and the 610 Ergolux Active 2.0 Saddle. Shipped to my door, $62 covers both. I've been superhappy with my Bontrager Boulevard saddle, but have been wanting to try SQLabs.

O and I also found a deal on some SQLabs 702 grips. If none of these components works out for me, I should be able to easily recoup my money or return them.