Nuvinci/Rohloff

[Saratoga Dave]

This is sort of generic, but certainly fits in the R&M forum, since I know several of you guys are all over this stuff.

Last Fall I added a 42 tooth cog to the low end of my Trek xm700 to give me some more climbing power with the Bosch Performance Speed motor. It has really helped out a lot on that 15 - 20% stuff.

What with almost getting killed a couple of times last year, I plan more and more focus on trails, paths and the like, or known and recognized touring routes. Probably will get another bike, much as I love mine... no ability to up the tire size and the geometry is much more street. When the woods look interesting, I can’t get very far.

So today’s big question is, where do you folks place the Nuvinci - or whatever they’re calling it this week - on that curve of the Rohloff and that 42 tooth derailleur? I know the Rohloff has the widest range, but I don’t care about higher speed stuff. I hardly ever get above 20 mph in my normal ops, but steepish hills are a reality around here, especially in the nearby Adirondacks.

I’m intrigued by the Nuvinci but while it’s commonly known that the Rohloff goes lower, it seems like people hardly ever bother with the first three gears. So is the Nuvinci equal to or greater than the Powerfly sort of 42 tooth setup when the road or trail heads for the clouds?

All that said, i’m still really liking the Trek police bike with that same gearing and the Speed motor... very much like mine now but with a lot more aggressive geometry and tough enough for multi day touring on something like the C&O.

 

[Alaskan]

Having had a bike with Nuvinci, 11 speed Shimano Diore XT shadow + and a Rohloff within the past year, I want a Rohloff on every bike I own, whether for road or trail. My second choice would be an 11 or 12 speed derailleur and third would be the Nuvinci. The durability, efficiency and gear range of the Rohloff way outweigh the learning curve for shifting. We all know the virtues and issues associated with derailleurs. The Nuvinci is great in concept and fantastic to transition ratios in synch with the rider's efforts. However I don't like the loss of effort their inherent inefficiency charges the rider...just too high a price for me. As we have lots of hills around here I appreciate gear range. I put a front chain ring on my Cube with the Shiman Diore 11 speed with three more teeth than the one it came with . This gave me the ability to power down gradual hills still adding my effort up to 30mph, and above if I really want to spin. In order to recapture the hill climbing, I swapped out the 11-42 tooth cassette to a 11-46. All this with a Bosch CX that is out of warranty so I put a Bikespeed RS which removed the 20mph speed cap on the CX. This bike is a real performer, lots of zip, great speed and climbs hills like a billy goat. I just love riding the Homage with Bosch HS and the Rohloff. It just feels like the perfect drive train combo to me. The 2019 model adds the E-14 shifter and Gates carbon belt drive to make the bike that much closer to perfect.

 

[Dionigi]

Hi Dave, I also have both a bike with the Nuvinci and one with the Rohloff E-14 speedhub. There is no doubt the Rohloff is a superior gear set. Both bikes have the CX motor so torque is not an issue when you find yourself in the wrong gear at the wrong time. If rails to trails is where you spend most of your riding time the Nuvinci would be a great choice, particularly if you stay around trail speeds of 15 mph. In urban traffic the Nuvinci can’t be beat. However going downhill in the highest gear (not really a gear) you will spin our and get very frustrated. The inefficiency and drag is always present throughout the full CVT range.
Spring is coming and i’ll be returning to Pittsburgh so maybe we can meet on the C&O trail.

 

[dblhelix]

You can do the C&O on a rusty Huffy! It is flat. The most important change to make could well be your tires, depending on the weather and the flexibility of your start date.

Check the NPS site when planning. I expect the washout at Brunswick to be taken care of by Memorial Day. If not, the non-posted but only detour is quite unpleasant. The grades are between 5%-14% but the real issue is the local traffic. I did it only days after the bridge went out so hopefully traffic is more bike-aware at this point.

The Paw Paw Tunnel is open, but Phase 2 (loose rock project) is expected to start about now. I was lucky that the tunnel was open on my return home last summer but I heard that the detour around is 1.5 miles of push/walk bike. Not too terrible if your ebike isn’t terribly loaded down.

Where are you biking the 15%-20% grades?

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Thanks for the input, guys, it’s sort of what I expected but good to hear from people who know.

The issue with trails in general and perhaps the C&O is tires and the general bike intent, so to speak... there ain’t no clearance for any kind of adventure tire on an xm700. It’ll lose traction in the woods at the first sign of an incline. It’s just the wrong bike for that stuff, as great as it is on the roads.

There’s some pretty steep bike trails around Lake George nearby, a ton of big hills all over Renssalaer County right across the river, and even here in mostly flat Saratoga County. In the old days I loved to climb hills just for the satisfaction of doing it, and I still seek them out on the ebike. The city of Troy has some beauties.

So it’s sort of an evolving process around some rougher, tougher version of a Trek or the leap to R&M with the full on Rohloff. First I have to get my Trek past the 7000 mile mark before it turns two years old in May.

 

[dblhelix]

Thanks for the input, guys, it’s sort of what I expected but good to hear from people who know.

The issue with trails in general and perhaps the C&O is tires and the general bike intent, so to speak... there ain’t no clearance for any kind of adventure tire on an xm700. It’ll lose traction in the woods at the first sign of an incline. It’s just the wrong bike for that stuff, as great as it is on the roads.

There’s some pretty steep bike trails around Lake George nearby, a ton of big hills all over Renssalaer County right across the river, and even here in mostly flat Saratoga County. In the old days I loved to climb hills just for the satisfaction of doing it, and I still seek them out on the ebike. The city of Troy has some beauties.

So it’s sort of an evolving process around some rougher, tougher version of a Trek or the leap to R&M with the full on Rohloff. First I have to get my Trek past the 7000 mile mark before it turns two years old in May.

Isn’t it a 38c tire on your bike? That size is fine! I have done the ride with 32s on a regular bike several times. You should give that type of ride a try before making a decision.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I will say that I all too often end up in the lowest gears on the Rohloff. If you are climbing a steep route with tight switchbacks you will quickly find yourself in 1 or 2. Even in turbo mode.

In normal road riding or rail-trails I rarely find myself below 4th gear.

With a Rohloff and a Bosch Performance CX drive you can literally climb mountains.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

there ain’t no clearance for any kind of adventure tire on an xm700.

There is plenty of clearance for tires upto 2".
Few best upgrades for a Trek XM700+ are RockShox Paragon RL, Schwalbe Big Ben plus ebike tires, BodyFloat seatpost. Here are some pictures. @John from Connecticut did that fork upgrade and seems like he is very happy.
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/installed-a-rock-shox-on-my-trek-xm700.25252/
RockShox can take upto 2" balloon tires.

 

[Dmitri]

With a Rohloff and a Bosch Performance CX drive you can literally climb mountains.

That's not... entirely true. The truth is you'll be crawling mountains because, while you'll certainly get up there, you won't be flying up a 30° hill at 25kph.

 

[Alaskan]

That's not... entirely true. The truth is you'll be crawling mountains because, while you'll certainly get up there, you won't be flying up a 30° hill at 25kph.

The man did say climb, not fly...chalk that one up to language, I guess.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

30° hill at 25kph.

Thirty-degree incline! You'll need ropes, carabiners and assistance from a Sherpa!

Yes, it is possible to ride up a slope that steep but it is way beyond the normal call of duty for most ebikes. And, I think, there are few of us who would dare attack it – scary stuff!

 

[Alaskan]

Thirty-degree incline! You'll need ropes, carabiners and assistance from a Sherpa!

Yes, it is possible to ride up a slope that steep but it is way beyond the normal call of duty for most ebikes. And, I think, there are few of us who would dare attack it – scary stuff!

count me out on that one. Kind of like pilots. There are old pilots. There are bold pilots. There are no old, bold pilots.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Thirty-degree incline! You'll need ropes, carabiners and assistance from a Sherpa!

Yes, it is possible to ride up a slope that steep but it is way beyond the normal call of duty for most ebikes. And, I think, there are few of us who would dare attack it – scary stuff!

Actually, some of the scariest and most challenging climbs are often relatively low-angled ones. To the point that a lot of times they aren't climbed very much at all.

One of the places I frequent in the Cascades crosses a very broad, moderately sloped (about 20 degrees) glacier-polished slab. Even in dry conditions it is rather slick and something of an experience to cross, while in wet conditions it is terrifyingly dangerous. Just to spice things up the slab terminates in a cliff about 150 meters high.