Not buying Specialized ebikes again.

[topcatken]

I own 2 Specialized ebikes. A $10,000 Creo SL expert and a Vado 5.0. Asking Specialized for help is pointless. My Creo started making a motor noise/whine a year ago. Specialized says it is normal. It did not make that noise when I bought it. No other Creo owner had that noise when new. Now I am meeting more Creo owners with the same problem. Specialized says the noise is normal.
It is not normal for a $10k bike. I have 2 Trek ebikes which never make such a noise. I have been riding ebikes since 16 years ago. (my first was lead acid batteries.)

My LBS contacted Specialized, complied with their request for a recording of the sound. I also wrote to Specialized but never got a reply, not even an acknowledgment. The LBS got an email simply asserting my motor is normal. I suppose the problem is bad enough they do not want others to know there a problem.

I have owned various quality bikes. The Creo is the cream of the crop. It performs well. But I have been listening to my bike for more than a year and this is annoying and unacceptable. I will not buy from Specialized again. If I buy a premium priced bike, please provide me the security of quality warranty service.

 

[mschwett]

Specialized service certainly seems to vary by the quality of the LBS. I’ve only had positive experiences when I needed it (rarely) but obviously your experience is different.

can you upload a recording of the sound? It would be interesting to hear - the SL motors are far from quiet but the noise they make under normal circumstances is very recognizable, as you note.

 

[jpadc]

I have limited information to add here, but 2 things. 1) My Como SL makes way more noise than the non SL version of the bike... I think that the motor just has to work a lot harder and will likely not last as long... But what I'm really here to say is 2) in Indy where I am we have Specialized company owned stores and I've hed great expereince with them being willing to investigate problems where emails/contact with corporate direct seems unwilling to even acknowledge the contact. I don't know if you have such things as corporate owned stores where you are, but if so you might try just taking the bike to them and asking them to investigate the noise.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Sorry to hear about the issue with your Creo. I have to agree with the others that our SL motors do produce noise that is recognizable. I can only speak about my own experience over two years ago with Specialized and with two different dealers/shops with respect to my 2020 Creo. My whine/noise issue was different than yours in that it occurred with the motor off. One local dealer brushed me off while another out of town shop went to bat for me advising Specialized that the noise was, in fact, not normal. Within a few days, I heard back from that shop and the motor was replaced on warranty, no further questions asked. A couple of weeks later, my wife’s Creo exhibited the same whine and her motor was subsequently swapped out for a new one without issue by the same shop. I did submit audible videos that were likely the valid proof needed to address any doubts or concerns. The 100 + km trip was a small price to pay but having that consult with the other shop made the difference for me.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I think that the motor...and will likely not last as long...

Strongly disagree based on my own experience. The reason for the motor whine are specific internal motor gears.

 

[jpadc]

Stefan: "are specific internal motor gears" I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying here, hopefully you can expand a bit so I can learn. Don't all bike motors have internal gears??? Does this relate to the motor on/off issue Prairie Dog discussed or the SL versus non SL versions or the Creo. I'm just not following you and what you are strongly disagreeing with. Thanks

 

[Mr. Coffee]

... Don't all bike motors have internal gears???

No they do not.

By definition "gearless hub motors" have no internal gears.

 

[mschwett]

Stefan: "are specific internal motor gears" I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying here, hopefully you can expand a bit so I can learn. Don't all bike motors have internal gears??? Does this relate to the motor on/off issue Prairie Dog discussed or the SL versus non SL versions or the Creo. I'm just not following you and what you are strongly disagreeing with. Thanks

pretty much all mid drive motors - and many hub motors - have gears. it’s a way to make a very small and light motor powerful - you spin it very fast, and then use gears to reduce the speed and increase torque.

similar to a car engine, a 2.0l engine spinning at 10,000 rpm can create the same amount of power as a 4.0l engine spinning at 5,000 rpm, but it will weigh half as much!

 

[Prairie Dog]

Here’s the soundtrack of the squeal that I was referring to. It was clearly noticeable anytime that I was pedaling without assistance which was often.

I suspect that simply replacing the motor rather than tearing it down and rebuilding it was Specialized’s way of avoiding any further delay to the customer.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan: "are specific internal motor gears" I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying here, hopefully you can expand a bit so I can learn. Don't all bike motors have internal gears??? Does this relate to the motor on/off issue Prairie Dog discussed or the SL versus non SL versions or the Creo. I'm just not following you and what you are strongly disagreeing with. Thanks

It is the way the internal gears are made and how fast the motor internally spins. For instance, the first generation of Specialized/Brose motors was virtually silent because the internal motor transmission was done by a carbon fibre drive belt. However, the belt was prone to fail at some point. Brose has modified the design of Gen 2 motors making making them audible (still very quiet) but more robust.

Most mid-drive motors have a kind of internal gearing. By chance, the design of Specialized SL 1.1 motors makes them whine. It is not the matter that motor works harder. On contrary, the lightweight motor provides half the power of a big motor.

Now, the full power (520 W peak) Gen 1 Specialized/Brose motor on my Vado failed after 14,000 km. Meanwhile, the low power SL 1.1 motor on my Vado SL seems to hold strong after a similar mileage.

Your suggestion was SL 1.1 worked harder and that would make it not only sound louder but also fail earlier. I totally disagree. The SL motor doesn't work harder than the powerful motor; it works less. The whine comes from the way the lightweight motor was designed, that's it.

 

[GizmoEV]

Here’s the soundtrack of the squeal that I was referring to. It was clearly noticeable anytime that I was pedaling without assistance which was often.

That sounds like dry seals, especially when back pedaling.

 

[rob feature]

I've had the same experience with Trek. Reported an increase in the vibration at certain motor speeds and loads, but 2 shops said they could not reproduce it. When I finally got a hold of someone at corporate, they bounced me back to the shops & weren't nice about it. Seems their tactic is delay until the warranty period expires. I'm not overly concerned about it as if the motor does go kaput, that gives me an excuse to mod the bike (warranty on the motor just expired). And it does have almost 4k miles on it. Motor still runs great, but when I really need to give it the beans, I get a little roughness at certain RPM.

I've never really liked using shops anyway - largely because of stuff like this. Finding a wrench/shop who is competent and will actually try to help is near impossible. I've learned over the years to depend on them as little as possible & get to the point where I can work on all this myself. Sucks to have to do that during the warranty period, but it seems like you could spend your whole life trying to find that one mechanic. The end result is that they've made me a much better mechanic and far less reliant on LBS - regardless whether that was their intent. Most shops make most of their money on service. Seems counterproductive to push your cash cow off a cliff.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Came across that increased noise complaint a ton in my searching of various forums and groups. Seems like this is something that happens with a lot of those motors. Sucks to buy a high margin variant and still receive awful support.

I completed a return to my local Specialized under their 30 day satisfaction guaranteed policy. Got hit with a big restocking fee which was not mentioned on their site (because "I'm not losing money on this bike.") They sold it 2 days later, which I know because I had forgotten to return the keys. The bike itself had poor QC and was poorly built up (the handlebars flopped over while I was riding it which alone could have resulted in serious injury, the rear wheel was not true, etc.) The battery having ~10% charge for 5 mile first ride home was the first bit of fun. They were not apologetic or concerned with anything. Had already purchased a higher end bike from them a month prior.

In the future, I would only go to a local shop that carries Specialized, but clearly that didn't really help you out. Sorry that you're experiencing this.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Came across that increased noise complaint a ton in my searching of various forums and groups. Seems like this is something that happens with a lot of those motors. Sucks to buy a high margin variant and still receive awful support.

I completed a return to my local Specialized under their 30 day satisfaction guaranteed policy. Got hit with a big restocking fee which was not mentioned on their site (because "I'm not losing money on this bike.") They sold it 2 days later, which I know because I had forgotten to return the keys. The bike itself had poor QC and was poorly built up (the handlebars flopped over while I was riding it which alone could have resulted in serious injury, the rear wheel was not true, etc.) The battery having ~10% charge for 5 mile first ride home was the first bit of fun. They were not apologetic or concerned with anything. Had already purchased a higher end bike from them a month prior.

In the future, I would only go to a local shop that carries Specialized, but clearly that didn't really help you out. Sorry that you're experiencing this.

Plan A is to buy a higher-end Specialized ebike from their large dedicated LBS in Carlsbad, CA this fall. These poor post-sale reports are giving me pause.

 

[jpadc]

Your suggestion was SL 1.1 worked harder and that would make it not only sound louder but also fail earlier. I totally disagree. The SL motor doesn't work harder than the powerful motor; it works less.

Well if I weigh 180 lbs. and the bike weighs 60 lbs and I want to climb a 50 foot hill with a 8% grade, the amount of "work" to be done is the same regardless of the bike. Assuming my riding adds the same power on two bikes, a bike with 50Nm torque motor is going to be pushed much closer to it's maximum capacity than a bike with an 85Nm torque motor. Motors that spend more of their life running at close to their maximum capacity wear out faster. I'll assume we can agree on that.

 

[mschwett]

Well if I weigh 180 lbs. and the bike weighs 60 lbs and I want to climb a 50 foot hill with a 8% grade, the amount of "work" to be done is the same regardless of the bike. Assuming my riding adds the same power on two bikes, a bike with 50Nm torque motor is going to be pushed much closer to it's maximum capacity than a bike with an 85Nm torque motor. Motors that spend more of their life running at close to their maximum capacity wear out faster. I'll assume we can agree on that.

yes, and no.

the amount of work done is about same. the power required depends on how long it takes you to go up the hill. you could do it in 1 minute, providing 100w yourself and the bike providing 200w. or you could do it in 30 seconds, you providing 100w and the bike providing 550w.

the heat generated inside the motor (the 20-25% of the input power that’s wasted) is far more in the latter scenario, so even assuming both motors were well designed to operate at those levels, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to think the bigger motor wouldn’t last as long as the smaller one. of course, good thermal and mechanical design will make either last a very long time. there’s also the choice to simply run the bigger motor at only 200w, which would produce the longest lifespan of all, which i think is what you’re suggesting.

in short i don’t think the amount of work is the determining factor, it’s the relationship of the peak sustained power to various design aspects of the motor, which are unfortunately somewhat un-knowable to consumers.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Plan A is to buy a higher-end Specialized ebike from their large dedicated LBS in Carlsbad, CA this fall. These poor post-sale reports are giving me pause.

It likely does vary from store to store, as others have said.

Another example is they shared some clear disdain for e-bikes, and belt drive in general on test rides. I approach bicycles from a commuter, get around town, leave the car at home, explore all the nooks and crannies, pickup groceries, stop and chat with neighbors perspective where e-bikes are a godsend. This group was clearly hardcore “cyclists.”

My local independent shops know the product, how to program the bikes, diagnose, etc. The local spec was too cool for school and clueless, I mean giving the bike with no battery was a good first indication. I think you’ll quickly find if your shop has the required knowledge for the bikes they’re selling, or not. And if they generally value you as a customer.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Plan A is to buy a higher-end Specialized ebike from their large dedicated LBS in Carlsbad, CA this fall. These poor post-sale reports are giving me pause.

What model you lookin' at mate?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

What model you lookin' at mate?

Still working out the trade-offs, as nothing's quite right. Getting the necessary tests done is really slowing things down.

Have a soft spot for Specialized from my MTB youth, and offerings of interest from other manufacturers either cost too much or leave even more boxes unchecked. I also like the staff at Specialized Carlsbad.

Watching too much Tour de France started this mess. It left me craving a light, responsive ebike as unlike my 61 lb hub-drive commuter as possible. And that rules out a non-SL Vado.

The fantasy is a flat-bar Creo 2 Comp. Of course, no such thing. And bar conversion with comparable components would put the final cost out of reach.

Will have to see what the Specialized fall lineup brings. My dealer thinks the Creo's 1.2 motor could turn up in a Vado SL. That might do the trick. Fingers and toes crossed!

 

[DaveMatthews]

Still working out the trade-offs, as nothing's quite right. Getting the necessary tests done is really slowing things down.

Have a soft spot for Specialized from my MTB youth, and offerings of interest from other manufacturers either cost too much or leave even more boxes unchecked. I also like the staff at Specialized Carlsbad.

Watching too much Tour de France started this mess. It left me craving a light, responsive ebike as unlike my 61 lb hub-drive commuter as possible. And that rules out a non-SL Vado.

The fantasy is a flat-bar Creo 2 Comp. Of course, no such thing. And bar conversion with comparable components would put the final cost out of reach.

Will have to see what the Specialized fall lineup brings. My dealer thinks the Creo's 1.2 motor could turn up in a Vado SL. That might do the trick. Fingers and toes crossed!

I've thought about other bikes as well. Choosing a different format for me would be daunting...