Next Crosscurrent S upgrade

A Shadow Plus derailleur with the clutch will help to prevent chain drops when hitting bumps (it prevents the loss of chain tension from chain slap.) I fixed the chain drops that happened while shifting to the highest gears of the cassette by flipping the chainring guard around. This reduces the gap between the chainring and the guard so it acts like a chain keeper. I don’t think I’ve dropped a chain since making these two mods to my original Cross Current. If you’re looking for a cheap shifting upgrade try installing the polymer coated Shimano derailleur cables with new SP41 cable housing. It significantly reduces cable friction improving shift quality.
 
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Chris I think I'd lean towards a high-end derailleur doesn't impact chain drops significantly, but similarly I don't know.
 
The Shadow Plus clutch on the Deore XT derailleur works pretty well. I can't recall my chain dropping once in over the course of 4200 miles.
 
The clutches come from mountain biking to withstand bombing down a hill at high speed hitting big bumps. Road bikes are generally ridden on comparatively smooth paved roads.
 
I tried Andy's this morning, had a great time with it :).

My sister just bought Surface 604's Rook, said it is the stores bestselling model (plus the diamond version, Colt, I imagine). Like Juiced, it offers great value compared to the more well known brands.

Car companies like to benchmark their products against rivals, and Juiced could do the same with Surface.

Two thoughts:
1. Chain guard, so that you don't need to cinch your pants. This is a cheap no brainer IMO.
2. Real variable frame sizing. Longer top tubes for bigger sizes, not just bigger seat posts. I know Juiced wants those sweet bulk discounts, but with more sales this would be less of an issue.
3. Also, not sure if the bikes should have a seatpost that's so easy to remove. Markings on the seat post are also cool.

Not really an upgrade, but despite the excitement of others, paying $1000 extra, 50% more, for 18% more watt hours, seems like a tough pill to swallow, for the CCS 48V 19.2 aH vs 21 aH 52V.
 
Not really an upgrade, but despite the excitement of others, paying $1000 extra, 50% more, for 18% more watt hours, seems like a tough pill to swallow, for the CCS 48V 19.2 aH vs 21 aH 52V.

You get the $350 Cycle Satiator and GPS tracking. Not saying $650 is a great deal for 6 more 18650 batteries but it’s not quite as bad if you were planning to get the Cycle Satiator.
 
I was thinking races like Tour of Flanders and Paris Roubaix.

That’s more road buzz from the cobble stones. They do use wider tubular tires at much lower pressures for those races. Tubular tires don’t really have much pinch flat risk compared to clinchers. AFAIK road bikes don’t really ever run the risk of losing the chain from chain slap (at least I’ve never heard of it happening.) Many cyclocross bikes run mountain derailleurs for this reason.
 
Looking at some other bikes, Juiced seems way beyond other bikes on raw specs, for the price (really can't find anything else competitive). IMO, Juiced could benefit from charging $100 more for a bit more fit and finish around the bike - fenders like those on the RipCurrent or better matching aluminum fenders, better paint job for the rack, chainguard, GPS if it's not too costly, etc. Maybe keep the Air at a low price and polish the CCS more.

There's a bigger market than the specs hounds :), eg Vanmoof https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/23/15860492/vanmoof-electrified-s-2017-preview
 
After riding for 60 miles, some thoughts:

I see the CCS as an urban, utility flat bar road bike. With that in mind:

*Use a narrower handlebar to suit sporty urban riding - though evidently many people don't want this - I think this is best accomodated by creating another bike in the lineup for more casual riders (or beefing up the Air or Ocean)
*Allow the throttle to take the bike up to a user designated limit, <= 28 mph for class 3, when combined with pedaling. I looove the throttle for acceleration at lights and through turns to beat cars coming my way, but I often ride with low assist (Eco/1). Sometimes I get into a bit of traffic where I want high speed briefly, and don't want to fiddle with the assist level.
*Have a quick button press combination that can convert it between class 2 and class 3, to make it easier to stay at safe speeds in congested areas or bike paths where class 3 is illegal.

I would happily trade this for the Cruise Control, which I can't see a safe use for in any populated area. Cruise Control's originates in serene highway driving for hours between cities (and nowadays is semi-automated with detection of vehicles ahead, ACC).
*The times I've tried the Walk feature, it was too fast. Maybe it's for stairs?

*Sometimes I want to pedal softly, but not receive any assist, to get to a red light or whatever. Right now, I have to either coast or use assist. I'd like an option to set the threshold for when the assist kicks in, based on pedaling force I guess.
*Better bike security. Maybe making the bike inoperable without a key in it (certainly with the battery, and maybe even without the battery).
*Narrower cassette range (11-28?). I'll probably do this myself, but I find myself wanting smaller steps between the higher gears, and not using the lower gears much at all, even on low assist.
*Hex bolt for the seatpost, and hex front wheel skewer, not a quick release.

I also think there's room for a more premium bike, say $2000ish with 12.8 aH battery. Basically all the upgrades people here do on their own, or more polish:
*Like Ravi said, better groupset (Deore or SLX?), brakes, though I haven't had an issue with the latter.
*Color matched alloy fenders and rack (black or chrome)
*Rear wheel lock
*Bluetooth integration with phone would be cool, if you can get the software off the shelf at low unit costs (not commission it yourself).
*Optional Airzound horn

edit:
*Maybe a rigid carbon fork to cut weight?
*Add a no assist level, to save battery but keep the light on. Have a user option to automatically cut assist at 5-15% of battery capacity, to avoid battery damage and/or save the juice for the light(s), so you don't get stuck with an empty battery and no lights at night.
*Frames that vary by size in more than just the seatpost.
*In general, benchmark the bike against Stromer, Trek, Specialized (minus the mid drive motors if they cost a lot more) electric commuter bikes.

Edit 2:
When bike sales volume allows, create a more casual speed cruiser model so that the CCS can focus on sporty riding.
 
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Current CA law does not allow a throttle to work above 20 mph
But the throttle would only surge you past 20 mph if you were already pedaling. It would be a temporary increase in the assist level. Hard to see a material difference between (a) setting the assist at S and getting 28 mph with pedaling vs (b) pedaling and pushing the throttle and getting 28 mph. I want this change because I like pedaling hard at around 22 mph for now, but have moments where I want more speed for brief bursts, and playing with the assist is clumsy in the heat of the moment.


Is anyone here hacking the firmware :)?
 
The throttle works like the pedal assist at 28mph. Once you get up to 20mph the controller starts pulling the power back. So you can pedal as hard as you want but you’re not going to go much faster than 20mph. You can always use a hybrid approach. Use the throttle up to ~20mph and then release the throttle and pedal. If you want to go slower just turn down the assist level to level 1 or 2. I’ve gotten pretty good at being able to reach down and turn the assist level to S without looking down when I need short bursts of speed (like racing to get through a stale green light.)
 
The throttle works like the pedal assist at 28mph. Once you get up to 20mph the controller starts pulling the power back. So you can pedal as hard as you want but you’re not going to go much faster than 20mph. You can always use a hybrid approach. Use the throttle up to ~20mph and then release the throttle and pedal. If you want to go slower just turn down the assist level to level 1 or 2. I’ve gotten pretty good at being able to reach down and turn the assist level to S without looking down when I need short bursts of speed (like racing to get through a stale green light.)

Changing the assist is clunky compared to using the throttle, especially if you've moved the controller aside like I have to make room for a horn.

If the throttle +pedaling took you to 28 there'd be much less need to change assist mid ride.
 
IIRC, the throttle limit of 20 mph is federal law regarding ebikes. This is why you see it universally on all mass produced ebikes. I don't see Juiced being interested in producing non-legal bikes. There are some vendors that do. SLX and Luna are a couple off the top of my head. Also Juiced does have the battery cutoff limit feature you are talking about. There is a setting in the advanced menu for LVC or low voltage cutoff. You can dial in whatever you want there, most people should set this at around 20% to avoid deep discharging of the battery.
 
As I understand it, there is no way to make a class 3 legal e-bike without having the throttle cut the assist at 20mph. On my Cross Current I typically use the throttle + pedaling to get up to 15mph and then release the throttle and continue pedaling up to ~28mph. IME you don’t have to pedal very hard to maintain 28mph. Additionally, on the Cross Current S you have the option of turning off torque sensing so that you would just need to ‘ghost pedal’ to maintain 28mph.
 
I understand the legal limits on throttle, but it's not clear that what I'm proposing is illegal:

If user is pedaling: throttle button pushes bike to 28mph
If user is not pedaling: throttle button pushes bike to 20 mph.

Regarding the battery cutoff, that's a good point, though not quite the same. Overall though I think a zero assist mode has its uses.
 
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