I would like to purchase my first ebike but not sure about what model or make. I'm average size (5'10" & about 170-175lbs.) and am looking for something for recreational purposes mostly crusing around back / dirt roads. I have read that the mid drive motors are better than hub motors but not sure why and they seem a lot more expensive. I'm in NB Canada and any local shops that carry ebikes seem to only have ones that start at about $4500.00 which is way out of my price range. I have looked online at the RadRover, Spark, and S 500 models but don't really understand the what the differences mean. I am also wondering if it is better to buy or build? Any advice from those with experience would be a help. Thanks.
New to Ebikes what to choose?
- Thread starter Leigh_M
- Start date
Wow, lots of questions, but this is a great place to start. Court’s videos are clear and very informative. Also check out some other videos on YouTube for basic ebike info. More info will help narrow your search.
Congrats and looking forward to what you find.
If you're looking to buy fat - there are plenty of fat bikes with mid-drive under US$2,500 and with hub motors as well. You won't see shops actually carry them, those are mostly customer-direct or companies selling through only a couple of stores. RAD, Voltbike, Biktrix come to mind.
You need to be more specific when telling about "differences" that you don't understand. Some things can't be explained on the paper, some can. IMO, building your own requires a bit of knowledge and skills and if you possess those, it might still be easier to buy online than building it. No worries, skills will come handy later on, for troubleshooting and maintenance.
You need to be more specific when telling about "differences" that you don't understand. Some things can't be explained on the paper, some can. IMO, building your own requires a bit of knowledge and skills and if you possess those, it might still be easier to buy online than building it. No worries, skills will come handy later on, for troubleshooting and maintenance.
ebikemom
Well-Known Member
My family members and I all have hub drive ebikes and they are terrific for how we use them--urban/suburban roads and bike trails, paved and unpaved. We do not do mountain biking. They require little maintenance. Yes, it is hard to change a rear flat.
If you are not handy/mechanical, I suggest getting something that a bike shop near you will gladly support, should you need parts/service for electrical components of the bike. Non-electrical stuff can generally be handled by any bike tech, though an inexperienced tech at a non-ebike store near my office put my rear wheel on wrong which ruined one of my brake pads but fortunately not the rotor since I noticed the brake rubbing on the way home and took it to the super experienced bike tech in my neighborhood.
Online bikes look like good deals, but can be difficult to get fixed if something breaks. Think also about how many years you intend to enjoy your bike. The longer you want that purchase to last for you, the more important local support/service becomes.
If you are not handy/mechanical, I suggest getting something that a bike shop near you will gladly support, should you need parts/service for electrical components of the bike. Non-electrical stuff can generally be handled by any bike tech, though an inexperienced tech at a non-ebike store near my office put my rear wheel on wrong which ruined one of my brake pads but fortunately not the rotor since I noticed the brake rubbing on the way home and took it to the super experienced bike tech in my neighborhood.
Online bikes look like good deals, but can be difficult to get fixed if something breaks. Think also about how many years you intend to enjoy your bike. The longer you want that purchase to last for you, the more important local support/service becomes.
Ebikes are modular, you normally replace electrical parts, not repair them. Dealers (when the bike has a dealers network or some shop agrees to fix it) will do the same, for a price. Many brands would only cover parts under warranty - not the labor.
The biggest part of DIY ebike fixes is troubleshooting, which implies certain understanding how things work. There is not much to learn, but many owners are not willing to. If this is the case, then you have to pay up.
How long your bike will serve you, depends more on how you use it and maintain, than on brick and mortar VS online - if we are to compare apples to apples, i.e. bikes with parts and components of the same level of quality. Price difference (within the same quality) will be $800-1,200.
The biggest part of DIY ebike fixes is troubleshooting, which implies certain understanding how things work. There is not much to learn, but many owners are not willing to. If this is the case, then you have to pay up.
How long your bike will serve you, depends more on how you use it and maintain, than on brick and mortar VS online - if we are to compare apples to apples, i.e. bikes with parts and components of the same level of quality. Price difference (within the same quality) will be $800-1,200.
indianajo
Well-Known Member
I like hubmotors. I ride without power a lot of the time and a geared hubmotor doesn't drag. When the wind is blowing 20 mph in my face (like Friday) on with the power! The wind used to be quiet in May-September, not anymore. We have global warming to thank for so many things - forest fires, coastal floods, torrential rains filling rivers to record levels.
Hub motor PAS is not intuitive, like torque sensing mid-drive is. But torque sensing mid drive starts at about $3500 US. And the sensors wear out quick, good luck on finding a matching repair part. If my hubmotor wears out I'm out $300, and if the tarriff goes up to 25%, $380. Whoopee. Bolts right in the frame like any rear wheel, the torque arm is the only fiddle. My battery is generic, I don't have to worry about a new one not fitting if my vendor goes out of business. My battery mount is 3/4" aluminum angle from the home store, not likely to go obsolete in the next century. The new throttle is a $15 part (but you may not be allowed to buy one in nanny state Canada). Canada wants you to buy a Harley and pay your license & fuel tax like a generous citizen.
Hub motor PAS is not intuitive, like torque sensing mid-drive is. But torque sensing mid drive starts at about $3500 US. And the sensors wear out quick, good luck on finding a matching repair part. If my hubmotor wears out I'm out $300, and if the tarriff goes up to 25%, $380. Whoopee. Bolts right in the frame like any rear wheel, the torque arm is the only fiddle. My battery is generic, I don't have to worry about a new one not fitting if my vendor goes out of business. My battery mount is 3/4" aluminum angle from the home store, not likely to go obsolete in the next century. The new throttle is a $15 part (but you may not be allowed to buy one in nanny state Canada). Canada wants you to buy a Harley and pay your license & fuel tax like a generous citizen.
I’ve had both hub and mid drive. They each have advantages and disadvantages. Unless you want maximum range or to climb mountains hub drive is in many ways better. Puts less strain on the drive train. Neither is better because it boils down to better for what.
Don’t expect an lbs to competently deal with the electric part of your bike.
Don’t expect an lbs to competently deal with the electric part of your bike.
Bafang hubs from China-based retailers start from $220, shipping included. Make it $270 with tariffs. With China, expect all kinds of tricks and bypasses in response. My 2 recent Ebay orders that should've arrived from China, came one from Hong, another one from East Europe.
Alternatively, to avoid the task of lacing the new hub in, $240 can get you a whole wheel with Bafang hub motor laced in. Yes, $20 difference. Bolt it in like any rear wheel.
When intended use is not very clear, it's unproductive to debate hub vs mid, or how much motor wattage he needs, or fat 4" tire vs 2.3 inch tire. "Cruising back/dirt roads" might be done on any 500W hub or 500W mid with 2.3" cruiser tire. Biktrix have cruisers with mids, Volt and RAD - with hubs (and probably several more reliable and affordable places).
If steep climbing is not one of requirements, hub vs mid becomes not too important. Also, OP should be well advised that hub vs mid is one big can of worms that is not to be opened on forums very often
Alternatively, to avoid the task of lacing the new hub in, $240 can get you a whole wheel with Bafang hub motor laced in. Yes, $20 difference. Bolt it in like any rear wheel.
When intended use is not very clear, it's unproductive to debate hub vs mid, or how much motor wattage he needs, or fat 4" tire vs 2.3 inch tire. "Cruising back/dirt roads" might be done on any 500W hub or 500W mid with 2.3" cruiser tire. Biktrix have cruisers with mids, Volt and RAD - with hubs (and probably several more reliable and affordable places).
If steep climbing is not one of requirements, hub vs mid becomes not too important. Also, OP should be well advised that hub vs mid is one big can of worms that is not to be opened on forums very often
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NeweBikeMan
New Member
If you are looking for a fat tire bike take a look at M2S as well. I was looking for an eBike to use for similar purposes and compared the same as you noted in the 1500 USD range and the inclusion of 750W hub motor, hydraulic brakes and a 16.5 Ah (48V) battery and rack and fenders in the M2S R750 was why I chose that bike over the other options. I have had the R750 for about a month now and have ridden it about 100 miles and it has performed well so far in light use.
An option - which is what I have - is a Ridescoozy Veego Semi-Fat. It has 3 inch vs 4inch tires common on fat bikes. It is reasonably priced, a bit under $1100. Rack and lights are built-in. Works fine on dirt roads. Mine arrived assembled with only the pedals to install and surprisingly well adjusted. It’s the fourth ebike I’ve owned so I have some experience. I use it for errands, cruising around the neighborhood and campgrounds. (I am currently at a campground with dirt roads). As I said before I’ve had a mid drive bike and hub drive bikes. For casual riding I think most people would be happier with hub drive. I’d be leery of any ebike less than $1000. Most of the fat tire bikes around $1499 look similar. The semi-fat makes some compromises, a smaller motor and battery, no usb charging outlet, less info on the display. For me the lighter weight and slightly thinner tires were a big plus.
All the choices plus lack of local availability can be overwhelming. Don’t overthink. Almost any choice you make will probably work out fine.
All the choices plus lack of local availability can be overwhelming. Don’t overthink. Almost any choice you make will probably work out fine.
GregGritton
Member
As others have mentioned, both have advantages, with hub motors generally being cheaper, while mid-drives generally giving higher torque and efficiency when climbing hills when you use low gears.
However, perhaps one of the key differences is not in the drive itself but in the sensor type. Mid-drive motors generally come with torque sensors which measure how hard you are pedaling and multiply the effort. Thus, if you are pedaling lightly they will provide a gentle assistance, while if you are pedaling hard they provide more force. This gives a very natural feel. Meanwhile, hub motor bikes generally come with cadence sensors that detect when you are pedaling at all and apply the same force if you are. I.E. it is more of an on/off feel. Also, there is usually a delay for a cadence sensor based bike to detect you pedaling and activate (or deactivate) the motor, while torque sensor based bikes are more instant. Of course, it is possible to get a hub motor + torque sensor combination.
Finally, not all cadence sensor based systems are created equal. Some are speed based, which try to get you to a certain speed based on the assistance level you program.* The Magnum Metro is one example. Thus, even if you are on a low assistance level you will still get a hard (and IMHO disconcerting) shove when starting out. Then, as you accelerate towards the target speed the assistance is reduced and zeroed above that speed. It is sort of like a car that always has cruise control active. Others, like the Rad City, take a constant amount of power at each assistance level. Thus, you get a gentle push on low levels and a harder one at higher levels. While not as natural as a torque sensor, this is still somewhat natural.
* If you are technically inclined, you can see https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html for torque vs. speed curves. Varying the throttle gives you an idea of what different assistance levels are like.
Well, there is the new Aventon 350 for $999
... but it's a city machine, not a rural road bike. Could handle some dirt roads, but there is no suspension, and adding lights and rack will make it $1,100. Its 2.2" tires will be literally a pain on beaten up dirt roads.
rich c
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, choosing boils down to a simple decision. Do you want to ride like a bicycle, or do you want to ride like a scooter. If you want a real bicycle feel, buy something that has a torque sensor and in my option get a mid drive. If scooter is your preference, get a cadence señor and a throttle. After that it's the style, fit, and speed choice. Then a secondary decision; can you assemble and troubleshoot electrical problems with a multi meter? Can you install parts sent to you from an internet supplier, usually multiple times as you find the part that failed? If you can't, then buy from a local shop. The price doesn't make so much of a difference if you have a dust collecting cheap ebike in the garage because it doesn't work and you can't get it fixed.
Ah, the dreaded can... Let's not get distracted. Scooter is a scooter, there is no pedaling.
Ebike you can pedal. Many ebikes you have to - ex, when there is no throttle, and incidentally those are bikes that are more expensive and equipped with a mid drive. Occasionally you might not be able to pedal a bike with mid drive - ex, if chain breaks or gearing problem. On such occasions you won't be able to use a throttle either (if you have one on the mid drive). OTH, hub with throttle would purr-purr you all the way home even if all the gears, chain and pedals break down and fall off the bike.
But such a scenario should not affect the choice of hub vs mid.
Now, - sensors. Torque sensor is not something exclusive to mid drive, though most hubs are equipped with cadence. Some other hubs have torque sensor. Some hubs have both sensor types on the same bike. There can be arguments made for and against each type of sensor. Greg in the post above explained well how they are different, and how the cadence sensor could behave differently in different bikes - this depends on how controller is set up.
To really, really feel the difference, you should try all types - hub with cadence (most common on hubs), hub with torque, and mid drive (most likely it will have torque).
Ebike you can pedal. Many ebikes you have to - ex, when there is no throttle, and incidentally those are bikes that are more expensive and equipped with a mid drive. Occasionally you might not be able to pedal a bike with mid drive - ex, if chain breaks or gearing problem. On such occasions you won't be able to use a throttle either (if you have one on the mid drive). OTH, hub with throttle would purr-purr you all the way home even if all the gears, chain and pedals break down and fall off the bike.
But such a scenario should not affect the choice of hub vs mid.
Now, - sensors. Torque sensor is not something exclusive to mid drive, though most hubs are equipped with cadence. Some other hubs have torque sensor. Some hubs have both sensor types on the same bike. There can be arguments made for and against each type of sensor. Greg in the post above explained well how they are different, and how the cadence sensor could behave differently in different bikes - this depends on how controller is set up.
To really, really feel the difference, you should try all types - hub with cadence (most common on hubs), hub with torque, and mid drive (most likely it will have torque).
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indianajo
Well-Known Member
Geared hubmotors work fine on hills including the 15% grades I ride on. DD hubmotors waste amphours on steep hills, but can climb 15% at 1000 W . Mid-drives are better on hills only in the <350 W class which is where Europe restricts their motors. Few hubmotors sold in USA are that weak. Agree on the advantage of torque sensing for natural riding with electricity.
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