New Hyper Scorpion - not all electronics working

[Armchair]

My brother and his friend just put my Hyper together today. LCD is working and some other components but reading the battery at 0 volts. They had a second working Hyper available and that battery didn't help either. They noticed that there was a ding on the headlamp and one of the handlebar cables had been yanked so they think it might have gotten banged around in shipping.

They checked all connectors they could find including the ones under the seat.

 

[TMH]

O.K., a couple of maybe really dumb questions. But my HyperScorp won't ship until next week, so I don't have one to check stuff out on in my garage yet...

That display/controller looks like the same Advanced Matrix Display which Juiced used on some other bikes (like my old RipCurrent S). It also has a power button on the front. Did you see what that does (in combination with the key and battery power buttons)?

Is the rear light a tail light, or bright, like the brake light? Could one of the brake levers be sending an incorrect motor cut-off signal to the controller? (Does the HyperScorp even have motor cut-off in the brake levers?) If you power up many e-bikes while holding a brake lever, they won't function. Could you try disconnecting the motor cut-off wires from the brake levers and see what happens?

Have you gone into the advanced menu to see if there are any error codes? (Actually, I don't know whether error codes would be in the normal display, or in the advanced menu on these bikes).

Link to the Advanced Matrix Display instructions (if this is, indeed, the display Juiced used on the HyperScorp):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1szXUGQXOUCiUUmQDfcnSGMR7n6ii9Uz6/view

 

[Armchair]

Good idea but I just had them disconnect the two brake lines and it does the same thing. Not sure about advanced mode but no errors on the basic display.

Two things that make me believe it is more than that is the blinking 0 volts on the LCD and lack of daylight mode on the headlamp. Also, It does appear to be the same display that's on my other two bikes.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

The LCD display on my Scorpion has some minor differences from the one on my CCS. For instance, the mileage can't re re-set with the Power button-Down button combination. However, there is a trip odometer function, which I always wanted on the CCS. The mileage on the main display can be re-set from the advanced menu display (Up button-Down button.) There is a lifetime mileage on the advanced display (Power button-Up button.)

I haven't noticed any other differences. Yet.

Externally, it is identical to the one on my CCS, except on the right side instead of the left. It's not quite as convenient to press the buttons. I wish it was mirror-image, so the up and down buttons would be right next to your hand, instead of on the far side of the display. It's a minor thing and I'll develop the muscle memory soon enough.

 

[Armchair]

I just called them, to follow up on my support request, and was told I'm not the only one with this issue and that they are struggling to get parts. Sounds like a controller issue as he mentioned they were pulling them from scrapped bikes. So are some shipped untested?

I have to wait for a tier two tech to get back from my last ticket update 24h ago. Then every response is 24-48h incrementally delaying the final solution. This sucks...

 

[Armchair]

48 hours since their last reply and no support ticket updates. Not looking good.

 

[buzzard234]

Not sure if this will help or not, but I have a pre-order for the RipCurrent S, and watching your experience makes me consider canceling. I hope Juiced is watching this board so that they know there are more people like me that are paying attention to the support people are getting right now. Your current situation is a precursor to mine if something is not working. . I dont want that. The sales end of Juiced is responsive, but that's typical. Good Luck Armchair, keep us informed.

 

[Armchair]

Thanks and will keep you updated. I hit up a bunch of the social network sites last night / this morning. I also left a message yesterday evening. I'm not being an ass or demanding anything, just trying to get an update on what's going on.

I just got a response now that they are still looking into it and said they will get back to me ASAP.

For what it's worth I do love the Juiced Bikes products (This is my third Juiced Bike) but this is my second not great experience with their support when I've had a hardware problem. The people have been friendly enough but resolutions and responses have not been comforting to this point. I'm not going to make a final judgement until I see how this one plays out.

This is coming from someone who manages a small company hardware support department so I know what it's like on both sides.

 

[Armchair]

I'm pretty upset right now. You can make your own conclusions but its feels like I'm getting screwed on Russian Roulette on who gets a defective bike. Welcome to back of the line if you were an day one backer.

" Looks like we were able to pinpoint to the controller being at fault. We're going to replacing the controller Due to the Hyper being a new product, the controllers are not available at the moment. We currently have a pending order of extra controllers for warranty and services purposes. They should ship a soon as possible. We normally need to receive the items first in order for a replacement to take place but in this case we'll be doing a hot-swap for the controller. Once you send your original controller and we see it on transit we'll be sending out the replacement controller. We'll be sending a return label once we have the controller in stock. "


Ugh.. The more I read that response the more annoyed I get. Like they are doing me some kind of favor. And I'm out of a new bike indefinitely.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I don't know, I think you're over-reacting. I've been sympathetic to the actual problem, but not this part.

Look, earlier this spring I started having trouble with the motor on my CCS. The clutch was slipping, Sometimes it would work fine, other times it would just slip. First, it took a while to diagnose the problem. Lots of emails back and forth, including a couple of videos so they could hear what was happening. Once we had it figured out, then there was some back-and-forth about what to do. I finally decided, rather than messing around with taking the motor apart and trying this and that, that I would just replace the whole wheel assembly. We're into May now. I ordered the wheel assembly, but they were not in stock. There was a shipment coming from China, and then they would send me one. It arrived today. The guy I was working with did try to source a refurb for me but nothing came available before the shipment of new wheel assemblies arrived. So here we are, 3 months since the problem started and around 2 since I ordered the replacement. And I'm not griping about it. It's just the way it is. Production in China came to a standstill a few months ago -- remember that pandemic thing? -- so it took a while for the factory to get going, to get them loaded on the boat and headed our way, and then it had to come to the East Coast from San Diego.

No one was messing with me, screwing around, doing anything wrong. It just took that long. You're posting like every day because your problem hasn't been solved right the hell now. This is not a Harry Potter world with spells to produce instant results, and there's no Star Trek replicator to meet our every need. I wish you didn't have this problem, but you're an early adopter, there's a pandemic going on, and the bugs aren't worked out of the supply chain. You'll get exactly the same results with a heaping handful of patience, and a lot more peace of mind.

 

[Armchair]

Dude WTF with the patronizing, I'm not posting because I having a problem after a lot of use on my bike. I'm posting because it shipped untested (most likely) and arrived DOA. I manage a technical support team. When this happens this is priority # 1 and I'm furious with my companies production & shipping team. We replace or fix ASAP and don't make the customer feel like we are doing them a favor. New sales and upcoming orders are pushed back to make the customer right, not the other way around. IMHO DOA is a different animal then oh something happened after a lot of wear and tear.

This is with COVID too, you don't change your priorities. It's about putting the current customer mess up before a new sale / shipment and not the other way around. Not every company support is the same and the results are vastly different. It's about management, not "Harry Potter" wands. I'm sure I'm not alone in those statements.

 

[TMH]

Well, this situation truly sux for everyone, and if my Hyper ships as scheduled (maybe today) I too could be on the 'sux' list by next week!

It seems like Juiced has made the decision to focus on getting as many bikes shipped to customers as they can, and deal with problems/issues later (sounds a bit like Tesla to me). They have the opportunity to displease either the customer who has gotten a non-functional bike, or the pre-order customer who will not be getting their bike on schedule since it was cannibalized for parts.

Unfortunately the perfect storm of brand new technology, and suppliers being overwhelmed by unprecedented demand after an unscheduled shut-down is hitting home here.

Is the controller also made by Bafang on these bikes? And I wonder whether this is a semi widespread issue, or just some one-offs (manufacturing vs design defect). Hopefully Juiced and Bafang know why the controllers are failing and can rectify that, and that Bafang is large enough that they can get a new batch built quickly for replacements. Plus controllers are light and small enough to be economically shipped to the U.S. by air instead of having to come over on a boat.

Sorry for your issue and I truly hope that it can be resolved really soon. But more selfishly I hope it doesn't also happen with our incoming Hyper!

 

[TMH]

Thinking a bit further on this, we might very well be in a situation where the early adopters get initially burned on this bike. Although I do have confidence that Juiced will fix things in the end.

The Hypers have new controller and motor technology which, due to COVID shutdowns, likely went through a more abbreviated and rushed testing regime than normal. Then when things seemed O.K., the manufacturing of components was rushed so that bikes could be built and shipped.

I still hope that any controller issues are more of a one-off occurrence due to rushed manufacturing, but in the end I would not be totally surprised if they are more wide spread (perhaps due to rushed design qualification).

I haven't heard of issues with standard Scorpions, but those bikes don't have as much new technology as the Hypers.

 

[J.R.]

Dude WTF with the patronizing, I'm not posting because I having a problem after a lot of use on my bike. I'm posting because it shipped untested (most likely) and arrived DOA. I manage a technical support team. When this happens this is priority # 1 and I'm furious with my companies production & shipping team. We replace or fix ASAP and don't make the customer feel like we are doing them a favor. New sales and upcoming orders are pushed back to make the customer right, not the other way around. IMHO DOA is a different animal then oh something happened after a lot of wear and tear.

This is with COVID too, you don't change your priorities. It's about putting the current customer mess up before a new sale / shipment and not the other way around. Not every company support is the same and the results are vastly different. It's about management, not "Harry Potter" wands. I'm sure I'm not alone in those statements.

If you are customer/bike #3 and it's dead, you should get bike #4 or the one in the warehouse that's ready to ship. Either that or the part from it that's bad. As a production manager of several decades in industrial manufacturing that's how it's done. First production out is made 100% before second production is fulfilled.

 

[TMH]

If you are customer/bike #3 and it's dead, you should get bike #4 or the one in the warehouse that's ready to ship. Either that or the part from it that's bad. As a production manager of several decades in industrial manufacturing that's how it's done. First production out is made 100% before second production is fulfilled.

The problem is that I think Juiced is still on "first production" of these bikes (Hypers).

 

[Bruce Arnold]

If you are customer/bike #3 and it's dead, you should get bike #4 or the one in the warehouse that's ready to ship. Either that or the part from it that's bad. As a production manager of several decades in industrial manufacturing that's how it's done. First production out is made 100% before second production is fulfilled.

We're usually on the same page, JR, but not this time.

Tora has prioritized getting bikes out to the Indiegogo supporters and those who ordered the bike early on the Juiced website. He mentions this in his blog all the time, and in the multiple emails that have gone out to everyone who ordered one. Same with the regular Scorpion, which is how I know this.

You can't please all the customers all the time, so you've got to make choices. That's the one he made. I'm sure most of his customers, who have been waiting for their Hyper Scorpion for months, are pretty happy that he's shipping bikes as fast as he can. Since he's public and out front about it, no one can say they're surprised. As usual, he has set follow-up customer service lower in priority, which I have always disagreed with, but apparently it works for his business model.

He's sold boatloads of bikes. It doesn't seem to have hurt sales any. Repeat sales, maybe!

 

[Explorer-1]

I'm pretty upset right now. You can make your own conclusions but its feels like I'm getting screwed on Russian Roulette on who gets a defective bike. Welcome to back of the line if you were an day one backer.

" Looks like we were able to pinpoint to the controller being at fault. We're going to replacing the controller Due to the Hyper being a new product, the controllers are not available at the moment. We currently have a pending order of extra controllers for warranty and services purposes. They should ship a soon as possible. We normally need to receive the items first in order for a replacement to take place but in this case we'll be doing a hot-swap for the controller. Once you send your original controller and we see it on transit we'll be sending out the replacement controller. We'll be sending a return label once we have the controller in stock. "


Ugh.. The more I read that response the more annoyed I get. Like they are doing me some kind of favor. And I'm out of a new bike indefinitely.

Ya, poor service indeed. They should be air shipping you a new controller from China right now, not waiting for you to send anything, or for them to get their stock off a slow boat that probably has not even left port yet. Sorry you got the short straw on this one. Relax though, not much you can do, just hope it is the controller, and you don't have to go a 2nd round, as round one sounds like it's going to be a long one.

 

[J.R.]

We're usually on the same page, JR, but not this time.

Tora has prioritized getting bikes out to the Indiegogo supporters and those who ordered the bike early on the Juiced website. He mentions this in his blog all the time, and in the multiple emails that have gone out to everyone who ordered one. Same with the regular Scorpion, which is how I know this.

You can't please all the customers all the time, so you've got to make choices. That's the one he made. I'm sure most of his customers, who have been waiting for their Hyper Scorpion for months, are pretty happy that he's shipping bikes as fast as he can. Since he's public and out front about it, no one can say they're surprised. As usual, he has set follow-up customer service lower in priority, which I have always disagreed with, but apparently it works for his business model.

He's sold boatloads of bikes. It doesn't seem to have hurt sales any. Repeat sales, maybe!

Without a doubt Juiced had been successful. There is a solution to some of these issues. By now after several years they must know the general failure rate of a new model. When planning a new model, in that plan they have to account for that failure rate. When the first shipment lands, it should include that predetermined amount of critical spare parts. They have to be prepared to take care of their good paying customers.

 

[TMH]

Without a doubt Juiced had been successful. There is a solution to some of these issues. By now after several years they must know the general failure rate of a new model. When planning a new model, in that plan they have to account for that failure rate. When the first shipment lands, it should include that predetermined amount of critical spare parts. They have to be prepared to take care of their good paying customers.

In a pre-COVID world, that would likely have been possible.

 

[J.R.]

In a pre-COVID world, that would likely have been possible.

Covid wouldn't come into play getting parts with the bikes. That should've been the plan from the start. Work order line items: 1-bikes, 2-parts. If the bikes landed the parts made at the same time would land with the bikes. Spares are critical for success.