New Creo2

[Allan47.7339]

One benefit I didn't see coming: Lots of big intersections with very long lights here. If there are no cars behind me in my lane, the green light I need to get through may never get triggered.

Lessons learned as a former commuter. Most traffic signals use an induction loop to trigger for vehicles. You can frequently see where they've installed them in the pavement. If it is a 3ft diameter circle, you want to be on a chord about ten inches from a tangent point parallel to travel. Some cities will put a bicycle mark at this point. If it is a rectangle, usually riding on one side leg will trigger it. If they have the signal cranked down so it does not detect a bicycle it will probably have trouble detecting a motorcycle. Sometimes they put the loops a two or three car lengths away from the crosswalk so if you know where they are you can slow down as you ride over them to trigger the light. I was told by an EE friend that even aluminum pedals should be able to trigger an induction loop set correctly.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Lessons learned as a former commuter. Most traffic signals use an induction loop to trigger for vehicles. You can frequently see where they've installed them in the pavement. If it is a 3ft diameter circle, you want to be on a chord about ten inches from a tangent point parallel to travel. Some cities will put a bicycle mark at this point. If it is a rectangle, usually riding on one side leg will trigger it. If they have the signal cranked down so it does not detect a bicycle it will probably have trouble detecting a motorcycle. Sometimes they put the loops a two or three car lengths away from the crosswalk so if you know where they are you can slow down as you ride over them to trigger the light. I was told by an EE friend that even aluminum pedals should be able to trigger an induction loop set correctly.

Thanks, I'll be on the lookout for all of those tricks!

The gate coming out of our neighborhood is an interesting case. Saw bikes triggering it all the time, but not mine or my neighbor's. Figuring out exactly where the sensor is didn't help. Then it dawned on me that our aluminum frames could be the problem.

Eventually discovered by accident that I can open the gate by stopping with my bottom bracket directly over the sensor with the bike at 90±10° to the roadway. Go figure.

 

[AndyK2479]

Another one of the bikes on my 'first e-bike' list.
Very limited stock here in the UK but a few available in that colour scheme and in my size.
Could I ask how you find the motor noise and how you are getting on with the SRAM Apex? I've not ridden SRAM for around 8 years and that was Force mechanical with Rim Brakes.
I'm weighing up the Value for Money of this bike compared to the Canyon Grizl:On and the Cube Nuroad Hybrid 400SX.

Regards,
Andy

 

[Allan47.7339]

Another one of the bikes on my 'first e-bike' list.
Very limited stock here in the UK but a few available in that colour scheme and in my size.
Could I ask how you find the motor noise and how you are getting on with the SRAM Apex? I've not ridden SRAM for around 8 years and that was Force mechanical with Rim Brakes.
I'm weighing up the Value for Money of this bike compared to the Canyon Grizl:On and the Cube Nuroad Hybrid 400SX.

Regards,
Andy

I only used the mechanical SRAM for one ride before I switched it to Rival eTap but it seems like it's very good. Motor noise between Creo SL V1 and V2 is much improved. It looks like your comparison bikes are all competive but not exactly the same. You'll have to make a matrix to grade them to your wants. The Canyon Grizl:On CF7 seems to be a very good value for a more gravel or off road with a front shock fork.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Even though Specialized advertises it as a Creo 2 all of the UL certification paperwork lists it as a Creo SL.

Your Creo 2 came with UL certification paperwork? My SL 5.0 EQ came with no certification paperwork of any kind.

The sticker under the top tube shows a 2022 manufacture date, but I bought it new in September, 2024. The Specialized-only LBS built it straight from its carton.

Maybe 2022 was pre-UL for the Vado SL.

When I called Specialized Rider Care for documentation of any applicable certifications, all I got back was this email:

Our batteries ensure robust mechanical integrity (cells on carrier, casing), fully BMS controlled (also when charging), our compliance includes UN 38.3 certification in which batteries undergo a series of physical and electric tests.

Below is a link with information on the European standard to which our batteries adhere.

https://standards.iteh.ai/catalog/standards/cen/c9b5ac0f-0728-4674-b9ab-73f4bb33f932/en-15194-2017

No document actually confirming that my particular SL is EN 15194 compliant.

 

[Tenezus]

Another one of the bikes on my 'first e-bike' list.
Very limited stock here in the UK but a few available in that colour scheme and in my size.
Could I ask how you find the motor noise and how you are getting on with the SRAM Apex? I've not ridden SRAM for around 8 years and that was Force mechanical with Rim Brakes.
I'm weighing up the Value for Money of this bike compared to the Canyon Grizl:On and the Cube Nuroad Hybrid 400SX.

Regards,
Andy

Hi Andy, the cube Noroad presents a solid option against the Creo 2. Have you seen the advanced Ebikes? What did you decided in the end? Thanks

 

[AndyK2479]

Hi Andy, the cube Noroad presents a solid option against the Creo 2. Have you seen the advanced Ebikes? What did you decided in the end? Thanks

Hi Tenezus,
I've not decided yet, the Griz On is still top of my list but the Cube Nuroad is a very attractive option, unfortunately there is little stock in the UK until January 2025.
I know see Giant are releasing a Defy AR e+, I already have a Giant Defy and Giant Contend AR as manual bikes, so that is another one to consider.

The Grizl On does keep drawing me back though, I'm going to see if Canyon add the Grizl On Daily to the sales bikes list.

Andy

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The sticker under the top tube shows a 2022 manufacture date, but I bought it new in September, 2024. The Specialized-only LBS built it straight from its carton.

Maybe 2022 was pre-UL for the Vado SL.

Specialized (as many other brands) seems to have overproduced many of its e-bike models. The two major generations of Vado SL are:

• Gen 1 (2020-2021): TCU 1, Shimano drivetrain
• Gen 2 (2022-present): TCU 2 Mastermind, SRAM drivetrain.

No document actually confirming that my particular SL is EN 15194 compliant.

It strikes me that a big number of e-bikes ridden in North America are totally illegal but now there is a demand for certification?

There is a label at the bottom of the downtube (near to the headtube) of my Vado SL reading safety standards for both e-bikes and regular bicycles. If it is good for Europe (especially Germany!), it is good for the United States as well (EU is not the region where you can slap any label on the frame as you please). What does your label read?

I think the U.S. demand for the UL battery certification is a new thing following the NYC e-bike battery fires. It looks Specialized has taken that demand seriously but they cannot back-certify all their past production?

You would be shocked too see the European Compliance Certificate/Type Approval document provided individually for my 2017 Vado 5.0 and then Vado 6.0 (each frame had its VIN number as a motorbike would have). The S-Pedelec (L1e-B vehicle) is far more than a Class 3 e-bike in the United States. It is Type Approved as a moped. The Type Approval paper includes the same details that are required for a motorbike or a car! (If you are really interested, I might locate and scan this paper). Well, a Vado 6.0 is not an EPAC. It is a moped, even if you have to pedal to be able to ride it

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Lessons learned as a former commuter. Most traffic signals use an induction loop to trigger for vehicles. You can frequently see where they've installed them in the pavement. If it is a 3ft diameter circle, you want to be on a chord about ten inches from a tangent point parallel to travel. Some cities will put a bicycle mark at this point. If it is a rectangle, usually riding on one side leg will trigger it. If they have the signal cranked down so it does not detect a bicycle it will probably have trouble detecting a motorcycle. Sometimes they put the loops a two or three car lengths away from the crosswalk so if you know where they are you can slow down as you ride over them to trigger the light. I was told by an EE friend that even aluminum pedals should be able to trigger an induction loop set correctly.

Since reading this, I've become a student of surgical scars in the pavement around intersections with lights.

The good news: The chord trick definitely helps with my biggest nemesis — the left turn signal coming out of my neighborhood.

The bad news: The scars here are often odd quadrilaterals that don't even follow lane centerlines. Sometimes more than one. Haven't had much luck triggering these.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

View attachment 183693
There is a label at the bottom of the downtube (near to the headtube) of my Vado SL reading safety standards for both e-bikes and regular bicycles. If it is good for Europe (especially Germany!), it is good for the United States as well (EU is not the region where you can slap any label on the frame as you please). What does your label read?

No such label on mine. Just a somewhat smudged sticker under the rear top tube indicating serial number and date and country of manufacture.

Bottom line: I have no way to PROVE that my particular ebike meets ANY safety standards — UL, EN, or otherwise.

 

[Allan47.7339]

Since reading this, I've become a student of surgical scars in the pavement around intersections with lights.

The good news: The chord trick definitely helps with my biggest nemesis — the left turn signal coming out of my neighborhood.

The bad news: The scars here are often odd quadrilaterals that don't even follow lane centerlines. Sometimes more than one. Haven't had much luck triggering these.

Usually the quadrilaterals are older lane configurations or signals that have not been updated. If it is in the lane stop/ride along one side. If it is a double loop stop/ride the middle line. Locally for bike signals it will be a small square 18 inches on a side with the bike marking in the center. I can't find the paper that was original source of this information. It was probably lost as someone closed down their server or aol account.

Quote: Bottom line: I have no way to PROVE that my particular ebike meets ANY safety standards — UL, EN, or otherwise.

If you look at your user manuals there will be a section of approvals. I assume the new 2025 models will include UL 2849 and the EU's EN19154 approval. My E5 Creo SL V2 has a UL 2849 sticker in a visible spot on the down tube. The insurance companies have spoken. If you look at new bike and wheels literature they are much more careful to describe the intended use and what class of riding they are intended to be used such as road, some gravel, minor jumps or full on mountain.