New class 3 or more hub motor bikes starting with the Biktrix Swift and the Hilleater Phaserunner

Frm what @Ravi Kempaiah mentioned above, there appears to be a stromer prototype with an IGH. anyhow.

I read up on the 2 motors a little bit but not sure if there is a substantial difference between the GMAC and the TDCM other than the price / weight. Appreciate the help.
 
I enjoyed riding the bike, but it's kinda like putting a Porsche motor in an air cooled Beetle. It will be fast, but in the end it's still just a bare bones, economy Beetle.
 
I enjoyed riding the bike, but it's kinda like putting a Porsche motor in an air cooled Beetle. It will be fast, but in the end it's still just a bare bones, economy Beetle.

That's not the way I see the GMAC (not sure that's the motor you are referring to). I see it as a setup that offers nearly completely user definable firmware with NO OEM locked down limits, from PAS levels/parameters to advanced regen features. I think maybe though, GMAC may appeal to more advanced users that appreciate just what that regen is capable of in the hills - though it's supposed to offer pretty repectable performance in just stop and go traffic as well.

The reason I am so familiar with the GMAC is I'm currently considering repowering my '18 Rad City AGAIN with the GMAC/Phaserunner/CA3 power combo, for it's 4th motor (rev. D). The Rad City started out life with a 750w DD originally, then updated to a 1500w DD, and currently has a MAC 12T geared hub for power. So yes, the RAD might be considered an air cooled Beetle - though it suits my purposes just fine. Has been an awesome test bed to date, that's taught me a TON and has been absolutely reliable. -Al
 
Frm what @Ravi Kempaiah mentioned above, there appears to be a stromer prototype with an IGH. anyhow.

I read up on the 2 motors a little bit but not sure if there is a substantial difference between the GMAC and the TDCM other than the price / weight. Appreciate the help.

A link to the TDCM that you are comparing to the GMAC please? Does the TDCM have variable regen available?
 
The TDCM motor used in Stromers is direct drive not geared. The regen can be adjusted. You don‘t want to pedal a current Stromer without a battery. I have a geared Dapu in the BH, I like to pedal without power on it. I can stretch the battery from 30 miles to over 50 with out power
 
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The TDCM motor used in Stromers is direct drive not geared. The regen can be adjusted. You don t want to pedal. a current Stromer without a batter.i have a geared Dapu in the BH, I like to pedal without power on it. I can stretch the battery from 30 miles to over 50 with out power

Yes, geared hubs work really well if you keep the speed down. With the 1000+ watt MAC 12t I can easily run 35 miles even in the hilly area I ride most frequently.
 
If the motor is always pulling current is there resistance as a DD hub when pedaling without power? The noise is only worth the trade off of being able pedal without power . Regen is nice but the noise isn’t worth regen based my Stromer vs BH I own
 
Not sure I'm following. You're saying you think your gear driven hub is noisey?
 
That's a whole different breed of cat that's using an internal 5 speed transmission. Kind of different for sure, not so sure it would have the same kind of appeal unless you were going for more of a touring bike kind of setup?

I don't like the hub motor with igh idea unless it can be done at a reasonable weight(increased rotating mass, will make it even harder to take the rear wheel on and off etc.). Plus it is only a 5 speed igh.
 
I wonder if it's possible to use EggRider instead.

I don't like CA3 or any Cycle Analyst.. they're way too big.

There's a YouTube named Andy Kirby who said Cycle Analyst has this goofy look. Which I completely agree.
So he got the EggRider and made the cockpit much cleaner.

That might be something worth looking into from a functional standpoint. Not real keen on big displays here either, but I've never messed with a CA3 or the EggRider so no clue about the capabilities of the EggRider.
 
What's the price difference between Ezee and GMAC?
(I looked on Grin page but couldn't find it)

HillEater Galiano is $3,849 Canadian.

It's not exactly an entry level priced bike like Juiced, Rad Power, Volt, or any other budget conscious bike.

If we're talking about difference of $100 or $150, people who can afford to pay $3,849 will gladly pay little extra to go for something better like GMAC.

Hilleater is currently using GMAC (MAC motor with no clutches) but plans to use Ezee motors in the future (also with clutch deleted) since Hilleater has better business deal getting the Ezee. I looked and compared both motors in the past, these are near identical in performance and I think their plastic gears are even interchangeable. However, the Ezee has slight advantage in efficiency (which is also a plus).
 
That's not the way I see the GMAC (not sure that's the motor you are referring to). I see it as a setup that offers nearly completely user definable firmware with NO OEM locked down limits, from PAS levels/parameters to advanced regen features. I think maybe though, GMAC may appeal to more advanced users that appreciate just what that regen is capable of in the hills - though it's supposed to offer pretty repectable performance in just stop and go traffic as well.

The reason I am so familiar with the GMAC is I'm currently considering repowering my '18 Rad City AGAIN with the GMAC/Phaserunner/CA3 power combo, for it's 4th motor (rev. D). The Rad City started out life with a 750w DD originally, then updated to a 1500w DD, and currently has a MAC 12T geared hub for power. So yes, the RAD might be considered an air cooled Beetle - though it suits my purposes just fine. Has been an awesome test bed to date, that's taught me a TON and has been absolutely reliable. -Al

I'm a big Grin fan. I'm also thinking of buying the GMAC kit from Grin and building my own bike. That way I get to use all the parts that I want.
 
Yes to the noisy question. the Stromer is near silent, the Bh doesn’t need a bell lol

I would call the MAC gear drive nearly silent as well, at this point anyway. Have maybe 500-600 miles on it. The nylon (or whatever) gears run with no noise. I can see at some point, when all the grease is dried out and/or slung off of them, that it might start making noise at that point. That would tell me it simply needs some maintenance. GMAC uses the same set up so I would expect it to run very quietly as well.
 
I have a geared Dapu in the BH, I like to pedal without power on it. I can stretch the battery from 30 miles to over 50 with out power

Just read Court's reviews for the St5 Abs version and now went back here to reread some stuff.

Regards to Nitro : I was amazed at how ezee it is to peadal it w/o PAS , only did a few x during my almost 15,000 miles and everytime it was like wow this is a completely new bike and it is so easy to pedal it and by the way I had the motor cable broken and I fixed it , it was amazing because I wasn't sure if it could be done.


And while fixing the motor I learned something new about the torque sensor and this might completely fix your Nitro( i still want to buy it from u though😉) so basically the tighter or less tight you have the thruaxle screwed in , the less/more responsive the torque sensor becomes ( anything below 0.8V makes the TQ sensor responding a bit slow or maybe very slow depending on each person sensitivity...)

You can find the current value for the TMM4 TQ sensor in the settings when you keep pressing the two buttons at same time (top button and bottom) and you should have the TQ @ or above 0.8 if it is above 1v , the ride or response will become quite jerky or very fast ( the way u were describing it) so that means that the thruaxle it's not tight enough.

Mine's set @0.78 right now and b/c i use a single ring upfront -48T - the response from PAS is not as slow as it should be but this way i know that the wheel is also very tight in the drop outs and won't spin out like it did for me recently, see below.

There is also a big risk involving the rear wheel : that is when the TQ vlue is @1v or higher that also implies that the thru axle it's not tight enough and that can actually create a big problem with the motor wheel spinning out and breaking the cable ;
that's exactly what happened in my case but that's also because I was changing the tire/tubes quite a few times so the dropouts got worn out(I actually had those changed too they can easily be changed -2 small parts that can be ordered , i changed those one time but it looks like they need to be changed every 6-7k miles or just need a lot of care when moving the rear wheel in/out.

I would highly recommend the thorn proof tubes from specialized.

And also a torque arm, i just installed the Grin tech one, this way the wheel would never spin out.


The problem I see with the Stromers again is the support (for myself I could probably fix them although that would take about six months of learning especially for the ST5 ) also the big battery it's problematic because if you need to do a long ride need two of them b/c of the inbalance created; and then they become too heavy , cannot carry only one because say i put in inside the left pannier than the balance is not that good and yeah this bike is too heavy(75lbs maybe 80lbs with the Wren fork)

I'm Very excited for the Vanmoof V and until that one comes out we don't have that many options.... I also like the Sonders LX ( But it would need a lot of parts upgrades ) because it is very fast 35 mile-per-hour top speed. There is also the Zen with the Shakti but since it's v. new it would need some testing 1st , I would rather let others be the beta testers and then I can evaluate it. But so far looks like a very professional project.
 

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Some minuses i notice with that ST5 abs model:

- kickstand location deserves a huge dislike and it can not be located in the rear unless drilling into the frame
- racktime racks r no good
-Pirelli tires r way too thick for front, cornering becomes not that good
-4.5amp charge speed is not V. fast as described, try 8 or 10amps with the right charger
- Major dislike is the handlebar lack of adjustability (it would need a new design)
- Major dislike with the display being out of view and actually it creates quite a dangerous sit. when a rider will look down @ it while riding
- Major dislike with the 77-80lbs weight once the Wren fork is installed
-Major dislike with the lack of dealers/support , maybe 3-5 of them in the whole Us
-Major dislike that a throttle is not included which would have been just an xtra cable and the throttle itself
 
I am happy to sell the bike at your price at this point. Haven’t touched it for an extended period. Unfortunately for Stromer I agree with too many of your observations, biggest being service and parts.

need you to get carrier to come by and pick up , no packing on my part, value my back too much :)

back to pm for rest of plans i think would be best, maybe exchange phone numbers
 
- Major dislike with the 77-80lbs weight once the Wren fork is installed
Please don't make numbers up. Wren fork doesn't add that much(the fork itself is probably 4-5lbs and the oem fork is also of similar weight), if it adds anything. While the bike is heavy I don't know another ebike with 1kwh battery and a dd motor that weights significantly less.

- Major dislike with the display being out of view and actually it creates quite a dangerous sit. when a rider will look down @ it while riding

Don't look at the display frequently while riding, that is the point.

-Pirelli tires r way too thick for front, cornering becomes not that good

Actually cornering is very good, again you obviously haven't tried them out. The downside of these tires is bad traction on loose gravel and rain however on dry pavement they are very good.

-4.5amp charge speed is not V. fast as described, try 8 or 10amps with the right charger

Charging speed is fine. It still gets 1kwh battery from 0 to full charge in around 5 hours. Since the battery has a large capacity, you stay around 20-85 and charging will be much faster. Besides what off the shelf charger can charge at 10A at 48V? You need a charger capable of >480W. Even cycle satiator is capped at 360W.


Stromer is not all roses. For example since 3g is shutting down now I need to shell out another $400+ to upgrade the omni which is running perfectly fine etc. But criticism should be fair.
 
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