Need Help on Custom Build for Falcon 350W

[Seagull84]

Hey all,

I purchased the Falcon 350W MTB back in late 2014, and it's served me well. I just got a great new job, which means a longer commute. Unfortunately, 36V and 350W just won't do it anymore, and replacing a 11.6 Ah battery regularly will be expensive.

I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts. Falcon built a new battery for the bike specifically for me, and is offering a 48V 17.5Ah battery with 5A charger and mount for a cool $500:
https://falconelectricbikes.com/products/framecase-battery

That's one of the least expensive of its kind I've found. In terms of motor, they wanted another $500 for a 36V 750W. I'v found so many 48V 1000W kits out there that I know I can get a faster bike with longer distance simply by going third-party.

So far, everyone really seems to like Aosom:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GIXZKP8/

I assume I can just replace the tire with a MTB tire, and take the cassette/freewheel off the old wheel and put it on this one to make things consistent?

Also, will I need additional parts or should I take anything else into consideration?

Thanks!

 

[indianajo]

A 17.5 AH battery from a known vendor for $500 is a reasonable price. I spent $435 for 15 AH from an Amazon listed vendor, spent 3 days building a mount for it, and it started losing connection at 11 miles. Apparently only 1 stack was working when I bought it, it charged from 47 to 58 volts in 30 minutes at 2 amps. Amazon refunded my money without shipping old junk back in 48 hours, but it took me two more afternoons to modify the mount for the $340 15 AH battery I bought on E-bay.
You'll need a matching connector for your battery. I like crimp on ones better than solder, the quality I make in crimp is better on 12 ga wires.
The wheel will definitely need a long stem tube, available only I've found on Amazon. 48 mm. Aosom is one of those dual layer wheels.
I prefer a geared wheel, since I move gross weight of 300 lb up 15% grades. Also geared drags less if the motor/battery/controller fails. No stupid regenerative braking fighting you all they way. I pedaled mine >20 miles dead twice. The wheel I bought stopped working at 60 miles without either the controller shell or the motor shell feeling hot. The aosom controller hand throttle rim and pedal pickup look extremely similar to the ones I bought. I didn't buy from aosom. Wheel failure was after 31 days due to the battery hassle, so I'm out $220. Not a lot of money but IMHO buying anything from ***** is a dice game. I rolled sevens twice in three turns. Going through a known distributor like falcon might get you a longer warranty, if they can't get any better products than the junk I bought. Noticed the #1 e-bike conversion shop stopped shipping geared wheel kits about the time I bought (I tried to order it from them). Might have been a reason.
Best of luck.

 

[Seagull84]

A 17.5 AH battery from a known vendor for $500 is a reasonable price. I spent $435 for 15 AH from an Amazon listed vendor, spent 3 days building a mount for it, and it started losing connection at 11 miles. Apparently only 1 stack was working when I bought it, it charged from 47 to 58 volts in 30 minutes at 2 amps. Amazon refunded my money without shipping old junk back in 48 hours, but it took me two more afternoons to modify the mount for the $340 15 AH battery I bought on E-bay.
You'll need a matching connector for your battery. I like crimp on ones better than solder, the quality I make in crimp is better on 12 ga wires.
The wheel will definitely need a long stem tube, available only I've found on Amazon. 48 mm. Aosom is one of those dual layer wheels.
I prefer a geared wheel, since I move gross weight of 300 lb up 15% grades. Also geared drags less if the motor/battery/controller fails. No stupid regenerative braking fighting you all they way. I pedaled mine >20 miles dead twice. The wheel I bought stopped working at 60 miles without either the controller shell or the motor shell feeling hot. The aosom controller hand throttle rim and pedal pickup look extremely similar to the ones I bought. I didn't buy from aosom. Wheel failure was after 31 days due to the battery hassle, so I'm out $220. Not a lot of money but IMHO buying anything from ***** is a dice game. I rolled sevens twice in three turns. Going through a known distributor like falcon might get you a longer warranty, if they can't get any better products than the junk I bought. Noticed the #1 e-bike conversion shop stopped shipping geared wheel kits about the time I bought (I tried to order it from them). Might have been a reason.
Best of luck.

Thanks for the feedback, but you lost me at several points, so I'll address in bullets:

• I don't know what you mean by the connector?
• The tube I have is already long stem, so not an issue
• I don't believe any of the kits I'm looking at are regenerative
• I already have a throttle I'm comfortable with, which came with the KT-LCD3 that Falcon packaged; don't see any reason to use the stock Aosom one - I assume this is okay and the controller won't have a problem with it?
• What do you mean by failure due to battery hassle?
• Falcon doesn't offer warranties for custom builds

On further investigation, it looks like most people are happier with AW than Aosom:
https://www.amazon.com/AW-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-Controller/dp/B00YBWAINC/

 

[rich c]

I can't say that I am an expert, but don't you need to concentrate on the entire system instead of just the battery? Specifically I'm thinking about the controller. You mention your system just won't do it anymore. I guess that means distance only? Or are you also looking at speed? I've owned cheap bikes, but with quality batteries. I've read a lot of negative feedback of buying cheap packs for unknown suppliers. The internet is awash with cheap batteries and many of those are built with outdated cells, or just plain not the cells that are advertised. Who's going to break open a brand new pack? And with short warranties, it puts them in the clear. At least with Amazon you may have some recourse.

 

[Seagull84]

Distance and speed. Speed is due to the 350W motor, and distance is due to it being 11.6 Ah 36V. On flat with pedal assist, it can go 20 miles brand new. Now that I've been using it practically every day, it can do maybe 14 miles on flat.

The battery I'm looking at will start at a beefy 48V 17.5 Ah, bringing it to 42 miles on flat, and 30 after its charge is reduced over time. Thus, it's a much more permanent solution, correct? It also uses the same Samsung 18650's that most other prominent bike makers use.

 

[indianajo]

Okay, controllers and batteries have different types of DC feed connectors. The first battery I bought had bare wires. The second battery I bought (which worked) had an andnsm connector for controller feed and IEC male for charge. The controller I bought, which looks like both aosom and that second one, used a ****ese knockoff of the .157" diameter bullet crimp connector, two females. I bought .157" male & female bullet connectors from Dorman at ORiellys auto supply, and put two males on the controller end. They matched. I put one male and one female on the battery end of the 12 ga battery-controller wires. (so they wouldn't short together). I cut the Andnsm connector off since I don't know any sources of them. I understand people that do drones tend to solder on some connector from the battery called X90, which I can have from Newark if I pay $7 freight. Who knows what connector Falcon is using. It has to be 30 amp rated for the 1000 watt motor (26.5 amps). Dorman bullet connectors made in ****** are 30 amp rated (by my experience with cars) but ****ese made similar looking connectors formerly sold by R**** S**** are thinner and will melt out at 30 amps.
As I said my first battery, allegedly made of samsung 18650 cells, was only working on one stack when I bought it and failed after 11 miles. Poor weld on the cell stacks, my diagnosis tells me (I took the top off and probed the battery controller board after they gave me my money back.) I had the battery out at my summer camp, kept going out of supplies 30 miles from town, and took 3.5 weeks to get the kit installed, so when the battery failed on my way home I had 2 days to notify Amazon, which worked okay. When the motor or controller failed 2 weeks later it was about 50 days since I bought it, and there was no warrenty language anyway, so I didn't even contact the motor/controller seller. It's winter, the e-bike is 30 miles out in the cold windy country while I ride my regular mountain bike everywhere here in town.
The second battery, also 15 ah, was made ***** by sun-ebike.com and sold through a LA ebay vendor, worked okay 60 miles. It discharged from 61 v to 48 v in 60 miles, some at 25 mph. So I think it is at least an 80 mile battery as I wanted it to be. I was LIfePO4 since these are cheaper , non-flammable, and allegedly have 50% more charge cycles than LiIon. LiFePo4 is heavier, and bulky.
As far as RichC objection, the new wheels come with their own controllers, so the old 36 v controller is a dead issue. The second wheel metioned is out of stock when I checked the link. It does come with its own gear cluster, so you don't have to worry about buying a tool to unscrew one from the old wheel, plus a $130 6 jet torch, $35 hoses, $140 regulators and $250 acetelyn and oxygen tanks, to break the rust to get the old one off. My wheel vendor was charging $15 for a new gear cluster, but I went with the front wheel to balence my bike that has 40 lb of baskets on the back plus up to 50 lb supplies for my summer camp.
I don't expect any throttle to work with any other kit, but you might luck out. Falcon would know if their new controller works with their old throttle, but you didn't want to buy that. Power wheel kits come with their own throttles free anyway, mine did. If you use the new throttle with the new controller, surprise, the connectors are going to match up. Same with the motor killing brake handles, use the new ones.

 

[Rooster]

Distance and speed. Speed is due to the 350W motor, and distance is due to it being 11.6 Ah 36V. On flat with pedal assist, it can go 20 miles brand new. Now that I've been using it practically every day, it can do maybe 14 miles on flat.

The battery I'm looking at will start at a beefy 48V 17.5 Ah, bringing it to 42 miles on flat, and 30 after its charge is reduced over time. Thus, it's a much more permanent solution, correct? It also uses the same Samsung 18650's that most other prominent bike makers use.

A 350 watt motor is no longer 350 watts when you put a 48v battery in front of it depending on the controller. Volts times amps determine watts and watts determine horsepower.