Motor torque..how concerned am I? 80 vs 50 Nm on Giant bike. Same price.

[Catalyzt]

63, 150 pounds, and just got a 49 pound MTB w/ a 40 Nm mid-drive motor.

I think it's gonna be okay, but it's RIGHT on the edge. It's at the point where everything helps-- using both lockouts, even wearing a lighter jacket helps, I like a good workout, it's just a little more uncomfortable than I'd like. I'm not gasping or feeling like I can't make it, but breaking a heavy sweat after 850 feet over

I'm pretty fit and it can go up anything, the issue is uphill speed & how hard I'm working on long, slow grades. Compared to my 40 lb kit bike, the new bike is 8.5% slower going uphill, 8% faster going downhill, but 6.1% faster average speed than ANY run on the kit bike. Everything else about it is awesome.

In a perfect world, maybe I would have spent another $900 for another 10-20 Nm. But my business is weird, money is tight, bikes are in short supply, so I think I'm good. We'll see if I'm singing the the same tune in a month or so!

 

[kmccune]

63, 150 pounds, and just got a 49 pound MTB w/ a 40 Nm mid-drive motor.

I think it's gonna be okay, but it's RIGHT on the edge. It's at the point where everything helps-- using both lockouts, even wearing a lighter jacket helps, I like a good workout, it's just a little more uncomfortable than I'd like. I'm not gasping or feeling like I can't make it, but breaking a heavy sweat after 850 feet over

I'm pretty fit and it can go up anything, the issue is uphill speed & how hard I'm working on long, slow grades. Compared to my 40 lb kit bike, the new bike is 8.5% slower going uphill, 8% faster going downhill, but 6.1% faster average speed than ANY run on the kit bike. Everything else about it is awesome.

In a perfect world, maybe I would have spent another $900 for another 10-20 Nm. But my business is weird, money is tight, bikes are in short supply, so I think I'm good. We'll see if I'm singing the the same tune in a month or so!

Man at your level any assist is just a bonus, keep on trucking!

 

[gehu]

As a counterpoint, I would offer that the exercise I was getting because I went with too small a motor and I am now walking a bike up a hill because of that, would be exercise that was NOT welcomed. That's me though... At 70, I'm NOT that energetic and I live in an area surrounded by hills.

I would MUCH rather have way too much power, knowing that when I point my bike at a hill, it's going to climb it.

Depends I use a 50nm, a 60, 70 and 80 ebikes for real training. Just because you want a big motor (just make sure you get a big battery ) and use a bit of neuroplasticity doesn't mean you are just measuring in classic neanderthal sense, I would think but everyone to his own. Just as I want largest torque motor at the lowest price that has TOTALLY configurable assist level settings near 0-100% settings where I can set my power level. Then, I take it to a big hill with my road, gravel, mtb hardtail, mtb dual susp and set my levels for each bike at the perceived exertion level. (I raced for Trek national mtb team for a number of years.) You can also do those calculations more meticulously with power meter pedals.
That way I can ride any combination of the others on any given ride at what ever training level I want for the day on just one ebike ! Then, add the higher settings to get me out of trouble such as dumb asses with cars in traffic situations or a host of other s*it that goes wrong. (live in Colorado at base of mountains) Hail, snow, rain, high winds, legs blow !!! out etc. THEN you are damn glad you....."measured". Again, everyone is different to each his own. I am 70 years old too and feel your pain. Still lift regularly, MMA (30 years), endurance speed skate, mtb/road and love my ebikes. My friend Ned on ebikes.

. That was all it took to convince me plus SVT heart from years of racing and using heart like a motorcycle engine. Ebike keeps me in safe zone lower A.T. threshold and still do epic rides and come back with legs sore as hell. Just not a beat up heart. https://www.amazon.com/Haywire-Heart-exercise-protect-heart/dp/1937715671

 

[Catalyzt]

Depends I use a 50nm, a 60, 70 and 80 ebikes for real training. Just because you want a big motor (just make sure you get a big battery ) and use a bit of neuroplasticity doesn't mean you are just measuring in classic neanderthal sense, I would think but everyone to his own. Just as I want largest torque motor at the lowest price that has TOTALLY configurable assist level settings near 0-100% settings where I can set my power level. Then, I take it to a big hill with my road, gravel, mtb hardtail, mtb dual susp and set my levels for each bike at the perceived exertion level. (I raced for Trek national mtb team for a number of years.) You can also do those calculations more meticulously with power meter pedals.
That way I can ride any combination of the others on any given ride at what ever training level I want for the day on just one ebike ! Then, add the higher settings to get me out of trouble such as dumb asses with cars in traffic situations or a host of other s*it that goes wrong. (live in Colorado at base of mountains) Hail, snow, rain, high winds, legs blow !!! out etc. THEN you are damn glad you....."measured". Again, everyone is different to each his own. I am 70 years old too and feel your pain. Still lift regularly, MMA (30 years), endurance speed skate, mtb/road and love my ebikes. My friend Ned on ebikes.

. That was all it took to convince me plus SVT heart from years of racing and using heart like a motorcycle engine. Ebike keeps me in safe zone lower A.T. threshold and still do epic rides and come back with legs sore as hell. Just not a beat up heart. https://www.amazon.com/Haywire-Heart-exercise-protect-heart/dp/1937715671

Yeah, all that! Brilliant, you said it way better than I ever could. Most days, my bike will be fine for me, but I knew it would limit me as well-- from idiots on the road to thugs hanging out at the Hollywood Reservoir. No one's tried to rip a bike out from under me here, but many people tried in NYC in the '70s, and sometimes being able to accelerate quickly-- downhill or up-- is important. (One team succeeded, and ripping a bike out from under someone in motion is an astonishingly brutal way to steal a bike, was going about 13-15 MPH, did a flip over the bars, eight feet and landed on my back). And I have a connective tissue disorder, so I wish I had more options on the way in or out of a flareup. (At least I have one option -- I can ride the lighter bike for a shorter ride.)

Thanks for the thoughts on training, I needed to be reminded of this-- and back off when it's too much. I feel like the only time I cross into the danger zone is pushing a bike-- either bike, actually-- up a disgustingly steep grade, walk mode or no. I don't think that 90 seconds of 90% exertion hurts me... but I feel like it would if it continued. It's like the way I felt trying to grind up 13-17% grades on the unassisted MTB last year-- I felt WORSE after the ride, kinda sick, had to take a nap. Ebiking, I always feel better after a ride, like lap swimming-- and that's new. I *never* used to get an endorphin rush from biking.

I will probably weight-weenie the Motobecane to get it closer to 46 pounds. I just want a greater margin of error! I just ordered lighter body armor, so that will shed 2.5 pounds right there.

 

[gehu]

Yeah, all that! Brilliant, you said it way better than I ever could. Most days, my bike will be fine for me, but I knew it would limit me as well-- from idiots on the road to thugs hanging out at the Hollywood Reservoir. No one's tried to rip a bike out from under me here, but many people tried in NYC in the '70s, and sometimes being able to accelerate quickly-- downhill or up-- is important. (One team succeeded, and ripping a bike out from under someone in motion is an astonishingly brutal way to steal a bike, was going about 13-15 MPH, did a flip over the bars, eight feet and landed on my back). And I have a connective tissue disorder, so I wish I had more options on the way in or out of a flareup. (At least I have one option -- I can ride the lighter bike for a shorter ride.)

Thanks for the thoughts on training, I needed to be reminded of this-- and back off when it's too much. I feel like the only time I cross into the danger zone is pushing a bike-- either bike, actually-- up a disgustingly steep grade, walk mode or no. I don't think that 90 seconds of 90% exertion hurts me... but I feel like it would if it continued. It's like the way I felt trying to grind up 13-17% grades on the unassisted MTB last year-- I felt WORSE after the ride, kinda sick, had to take a nap. Ebiking, I always feel better after a ride, like lap swimming-- and that's new. I *never* used to get an endorphin rush from biking.

I will probably weight-weenie the Motobecane to get it closer to 46 pounds. I just want a greater margin of error! I just ordered lighter body armor, so that will shed 2.5 pounds right there.

Exactly right ! You said it best have to be reminded when to back off so you don't come home feeling sick and immune compromised. Thing is, even if you back off on your acoustic, you may not be able to get home anyway in a communicable state. Many times here and many many naps after. Just ordered the Motobecane HalE1 Elite w steps e7. Can't wait but it will certainly be awhile. Easily best dual e for the money for me in particular the angles. Yep, I don't think the 90% is the problem the heart breakers literally when you are at your very limit is what causes the scar tissue and wiring heart damage over many years of epic event racing and training. (17 Leadville 100's here and hundreds of other such events.)

Amazon.com

Also Lennard on safer training on ebikes.

Zinn: An e-bike can be life-changing for a lifelong cyclist

VeloNews technical writer Lennard Zinn is still getting in plenty of long rides

www.velonews.com

 

[Coolbob]

My wife and I are in our 60s and hadn't ridden our old bicycles in a very long time because we live a couple of miles from the city limits and there are lots of hills everywhere, even in our neighborhood.

Last summer I bought a Momentum Transend E+ (class-3, 60nm mid-drive with a 7-speed rear hub). I really like the 'auto' setting which switches between assist levels 2, 3 and 4 as needed. Using auto mode, I've climbed every hill in town, including our driveway which includes a 20-degree slope, so 60nm is plenty for me and I'm not even using the highest level of assist, (5).

Two weeks ago we bought a Momentum Vida E+ (class-1, 60nm mid-drive with a 7-speed rear hub) for my wife. Her bike has a smaller chainring (four tooth difference), so even though we have the same wheels and rear hub ratios, her bike is geared slightly lower. She's taken it for a laps around the neighborhood twice, climbing a few hills and riding about 4-miles each time. Yesterday she set the bike to max assist (5) and left the neighborhood which means climbing two steep hills, riding on a loose gravel shoulder of a 2-lane highway for 1/2-mile, up one of the steepest double hills in town, around town and back home. She covered 9-miles, over 800ft elevation gain, her average cadence was 43 and her average speed was almost 12mph. She was so proud of herself and her back, which has been bothering her for a few days, feels great. Not bad for her first 'long' bike ride in almost 20-years and with 'only' 60nm of torque.

 

[kmccune]

Exactly right ! You said it best have to be reminded when to back off so you don't come home feeling sick and immune compromised. Thing is, even if you back off on your acoustic, you may not be able to get home anyway in a communicable state. Many times here and many many naps after. Just ordered the Motobecane HalE1 Elite w steps e7. Can't wait but it will certainly be awhile. Easily best dual e for the money for me in particular the angles. Yep, I don't think the 90% is the problem the heart breakers literally when you are at your very limit is what causes the scar tissue and wiring heart damage over many years of epic event racing and training. (17 Leadville 100's here and hundreds of other such events.)

Amazon.com

Also Lennard on safer training on ebikes.

Zinn: An e-bike can be life-changing for a lifelong cyclist

VeloNews technical writer Lennard Zinn is still getting in plenty of long rides

www.velonews.com

My wife and I are in our 60s and hadn't ridden our old bicycles in a very long time because we live a couple of miles from the city limits and there are lots of hills everywhere, even in our neighborhood.

Last summer I bought a Momentum Transend E+ (class-3, 60nm mid-drive with a 7-speed rear hub). I really like the 'auto' setting which switches between assist levels 2, 3 and 4 as needed. Using auto mode, I've climbed every hill in town, including our driveway which includes a 20-degree slope, so 60nm is plenty for me and I'm not even using the highest level of assist, (5).

Two weeks ago we bought a Momentum Vida E+ (class-1, 60nm mid-drive with a 7-speed rear hub) for my wife. Her bike has a smaller chainring (four tooth difference), so even though we have the same wheels and rear hub ratios, her bike is geared slightly lower. She's taken it for a laps around the neighborhood twice, climbing a few hills and riding about 4-miles each time. Yesterday she set the bike to max assist (5) and left the neighborhood which means climbing two steep hills, riding on a loose gravel shoulder of a 2-lane highway for 1/2-mile, up one of the steepest double hills in town, around town and back home. She covered 9-miles, over 800ft elevation gain, her average cadence was 43 and her average speed was almost 12mph. She was so proud of herself and her back, which has been bothering her for a few days, feels great. Not bad for her first 'long' bike ride in almost 20-years and with 'only' 60nm of torque.

Yep, we actually want some good exercise too, that's on us. The folks that just want a quiet "mini-bike" that's their right as well, believe me if you want to you can build something pretty powerful, those electric motors do not waste power.
Guys I am curious, on the brush type motors, will a rheostat or "potentiometer" control the speed of the motor? Looks like that would simplify wiring.

 

[AHicks]

Yep, we actually want some good exercise too, that's on us. The folks that just want a quiet "mini-bike" that's their right as well, believe me if you want to you can build something pretty powerful, those electric motors do not waste power.
Guys I am curious, on the brush type motors, will a rheostat or "potentiometer" control the speed of the motor? Looks like that would simplify wiring.

It would need to be huge. Electronic speed control still a MUCH better plan. Think battery powered drill motor for instance. If you were to stall one of those with an old style rheostat, those wires would be glowing nearly instantly.....

 

[kmccune]

It would need to be huge. Electronic speed control still a MUCH better plan. Think battery powered drill motor for instance. If you were to stall one of those with an old style rheostat, those wires would be glowing nearly instantly.....

I thought a "pot" controlled the amount of current it would pass? I understand a rheostat is sort of an analog devce,