Motor Specs on Rad City 750 watt ? Anyone know them ?

[erider_61]

Some interesting thoughts on why a Rad 750W motor might be underpowered....

 

[Feliz]

Watching that video has kept me from purchasing a Radrover which I consider otherwise to be a good bike. I just bought a Voltbike Yukon and im sure it has the same 750 motor as the Radrover but at least I don't know it.

 

[AHicks]

Have seen this video previously. He's reinforcing the fact I mentioned, that on a diet consisting of equal amounts of power, the physically bigger armature motor WILL have more power than a smaller one.

The other takeaway he's mentioned here and on other videos he's done, is that he's working on a higher capacity controller (which is not available anywhere yet), which will no doubt help out the riders looking for more performance. I would also hope that it's left unlocked where the user is able to configure it to his own needs. That's a REALLY big deal. Possibly bigger than the performance increase. -Al

 

[Feliz]

That's what I like about the Bafang mid drives, buy a cable, turn on the computer and voila......whatever wattage or other parameters you want. If you know what your doing it can be done to the hub drives as well, a guy just posted a good thread over on the Surface604 topic, im just too lazy to do it.

 

[AHicks]

Those cable driven programming revisions some guys are doing require a degree in electrical engineering as far as I can tell. I'm not a total wimp when it comes to that type thing, and it's WAY over my head, and at my age, I don't want to take the time to learn it. I have the patience to wait for something that I already know can be done using the display - as long as it's unlocked or you have the password.... -Al

 

[Feliz]

I can do the mid drives, I have a BBSHD but the guy doing the Surface604 Shred really lost me.......but I'm 80.

 

[tomjasz]

.....but I'm 80.

that’ll explains our minor head butting. Both curmudgeons?

 

[Feliz]

that’ll explains our minor head butting. Both curmudgeons?

That might explain it, I'll try to refrain from the insults Thomas if you try to get my name right......it's FELIZ not FELIX. That's not my real name in any case, I started using Feliz back when this all started ( computers not eBikes) back in the eighties, the reason eludes me now, using Wayne just wouldn't seen right now. Anyway, I'll be nicer from now on.

 

[Elknerps]

Some interesting thoughts on why a Rad 750W motor might be underpowered....

I think that video is very misleading, in the video he compares the different wattage geared motors and of course they look the same, the difference is in the windings and the magnets. Then he compares a 750 watt direct drive motor to the 750 watt geared motor which is not fair at all since he never mentioned that they are totally different types of motors. He is also trying to sell you his bikes, which is ok, but a bit biased.

 

[J.R.]

I think that video is very misleading, in the video he compares the different wattage geared motors and of course they look the same, the difference is in the windings and the magnets. Then he compares a 750 watt direct drive motor to the 750 watt geared motor which is not fair at all since he never mentioned that they are totally different types of motors. He is also trying to sell you his bikes, which is ok, but a bit biased.

I can see why it might look like that, but the motors compared side by side are all geared. It's just the gear cluster on the one larger 750 are removed.

There's a lot of information on some 750 watt motors not performing up to others. Many 750 watt motors will easily top 1000 watts. I have a good friend that has a 500 watt geared hub that peaks at 1025 watts. I've witnessed his real testing and have ridden his bike.

Too many ratings are misleading. Maybe someday all makers will list nominal and peak watts. Some already do. Until then we need to rely on real testing and reviews.

 

[Feliz]

I think that video is very misleading, in the video he compares the different wattage geared motors and of course they look the same, the difference is in the windings and the magnets. Then he compares a 750 watt direct drive motor to the 750 watt geared motor which is not fair at all since he never mentioned that they are totally different types of motors. He is also trying to sell you his bikes, which is ok, but a bit biased.

Ya, and we don't know if the controllers were all the same and if not what amperage they were providing the motor. It was food for thought though.

There are a lot of companies like Radpower that offer both 500 and 750 watt motors in their lineup and I've always just assumed they were the same motor just running at a different wattage. In the do it yourself forums there are lots of examples of people running two and three times the wattage through motors than what they were designed for.

 

[Alex M]

This {MIke's post} is a gross over simplification.

I think Mike's summed it up well. On hills you need to pay attention to torque ratings, otherwise watt rating is misleading. The only inaccuracy was "...people buying Rads get 'seduced' by the 750 watt rating, only to learn once they get it, the power is really weak". It's not a weak power, it's a torque.

And - yes, there are different "wind types" in DD motors, some are made for higher speed per volt, other are for lower speed and higher torque. Need a lower speed wind for those 26" wheels.

$300 for entire kit is cheap, doesn't sound like it was ebikes.ca - those would cost twice as much. I like their assortment at ebikes.ca and that they always state the wind type in RPM/volt, but they are not cheap.

 

[AHicks]

Alex, there is no way you can compare motor/hub performance without considering if they are geared or not. That was my point.

Also, if you're looking for a pretty decent 300 dollar direct drive kit, from a supplier with a pretty decent reputation, check here:

www.leafbike.com

After a lot of research, I've purchased 3 here (including the 1500w unit currently installed on my Rad City), and if looking for something similar tomorrow, would purchase another without a second thought. Good support, no disappointments on the product. FWIW -Al

 

[tomjasz]

Ya, and we don't know if the controllers were all the same and if not what amperage they were providing the motor. It was food for thought though.

There are a lot of companies like Radpower that offer both 500 and 750 watt motors in their lineup and I've always just assumed they were the same motor just running at a different wattage. In the do it yourself forums there are lots of examples of people running two and three times the wattage through motors than what they were designed for.

But only with specific motors that we've learned are capable. Some will fry.

 

[Rjbur]

This is a gross over simplification.

I would hope that by now everyone understands the fact that gear dive hubs have an unarguable advantage at low speeds and hills, but the DD have their advantages as well. Like no gears to create noise or maintenance issues, much better efficiency in situations where a lot of torque on tap is of little value (flat lands), and higher available speeds. And there's this little thing called regen a lot of people talk about, that's not available anywhere but with DD.

Name your poison (preferences). They are both (gear and direct drive) very well suited when carefully chosen. THOSE differences are the facts that need to be more widely considered/known/discussed.

AHicks - very well said...

I'm a new owner of a RadWagon with a DD Motor and knew what I was getting into. The RadWagon as well as the RadCity are sold primarily as city or commute bikes and the Regen capability of their motors fall into this type of use. Yes, one could argue that the Regen really does not get you much, but it does help a little.

I would say buyer be ware and do you research. I know that "off road" or "hill climbing" was not going to be my primary use of my RadWagon based on "my" commute and expected use. If so, I would not have purchased the RadRover with the higher torque values. I did specifically go with the 2018 RadWagon as it has the 21 speed gearing so I could shift down into much lower gearing and help my under torqued DD when I do happen to hit those steeper hills.

Now on my first ride I did hit a steep hill and I placed the PAS up to 5 and was over 700+ watts on the display. Not for a long period of time as Rad tells you to keep it to 500 watts or less for long runs. I figured it better handle short runs at 700...

Now that said, here is a plug and play upgrade that a friend of mine with a 2018 has done and he immediately noticed a better response from the factory motor. Of course he is past his 1yr warranty and I am still waiting till November for mine to run out...

https://electrobikeworld.com/products/35a-controller-rad

And on the settings and just an overall great discussion...

The display to the left is a COLOR one!!! He has a video that talks about it as well.

Is it November yet....

 

[AHicks]

Well, there you are! This is the conversion kit that Rad owners have been waiting for. I was pretty sure it was just going to be a matter of time. This kit offers SO many configuration options it'll make your head spin for weeks. It's VERY similar to what I've been using for the last couple of years now, and if you've been miffed over the way your Rad is set up electronically, here is your answer. Not positiive but pretty sure you are going to need both the controller AND the display. I don't think the stock Rad display is compatible. If it is, being locked down as they are, you will not have the full adjustability available with the LCD3 display.

Controller:
https://electrobikeworld.com/products/35a-controller-rad
Display:
https://electrobikeworld.com/products/kt-lcd3-with-usb-rad

I would note that though it's rated for 35 amps, the size of the wire in the RAD battery, AND the size of the wire/connectors in this kit are not going to handle 35 amps without getting kinda warm pretty quickly.....

One bonus I should mention, for those concerned about doing something wrong when configuring something like this, is this LCD display allows a total reset, bringing back all of the default settings, allowing you to start your custom settings over again.

This kit is going to make a LOT of Rad owners REALLY happy. They've been available for the Sonders bikes for a while now, and are very popular.

I think the guy offering the kit for the Rad bikes will have a home run to deal with. Betting they are in short supply soon/regularly. -Al

 

[Feliz]

I have the colour version of that display and it is the best of all my displays, and having a display fetish means I have a LOT.

 

[tomjasz]

Love my DD until I have to pedal without power. Like riding with a brake engaged.

$120 35a and not sinewave? Argh!

I just got the display for $30 to reflash and use with my TSDZ2.

I ride and get off on the scenery, not watching a display. The most reliable have been the B&W. But I an enamored by the EggRider. No display matches a smart phone and the data is far more useful!

 

[AHicks]

A few basic functions is all I really care about on the display. With the kits above, it's not about the display so much as it is about the potential configuration changes easily accessible using the display - without messing with a laptop, blue tooth, or a smart phone. Not to mention the potential performance differences due to the increased capacity.......

 

[tomjasz]

A few basic functions is all I really care about on the display. With the kits above, it's not about the display so much as it is about the potential configuration changes easily accessible using the display - without messing with a laptop, blue tooth, or a smart phone. Not to mention the potential performance differences due to the increased capacity.......

I'm seeing more users learning to reprogram displays and write code for them. Both the LCD3 and the 850 are being open sourced with a couple of systems. We're doing really well with the eggRider sales. A small innocuous display that can be viewed and programmed by way of a smart phone. Good stuff happening!