Most ebikers are retired or near retiring age where age has taken a tool on muscle strenght and endurance.

[Trail Cruiser]

In those cases, choosing a premium brand with the latest and most sophisticated technology is not always benificial, but can even be less helpful (such as the lack of throttle).

 

[Explorer-1]

"Most ebikers are retired or near retiring age"
Really, you have the data to show that?

Great video, it's been posted before, even by the author I believe. Regardless of age everything in that video is spot on.

 

[Captain Slow]

Trail Cruiser are you the author of the video?

Interesting. I've never seriously considered a bike that had a Bosch motor, but not because it was Bosch it was just a coincidence I think. Well maybe not. My first 2 ebikes were relatively inexpensive and anything with Bosch wouldn't have been that price point. My most recent bike a Specialized Creo certainly cost more than a lot of Bosch equipped bikes but I specifically wanted the Creo because I wanted an electric bike that was light and rode like a regular bike. My other issue after having hub drive bikes is that whenever I did maintenance like changing a cassette or even just fixing a flat that it was a huge hassle. Because of that I wanted to get a mid-drive.

The OP seems best suited to doing a DIY conversion from Grin Technologies. One day I'll build a kit from Grin, but I really wanted the Creo and nothing Grin sells would be remotely close.

 

[Solom01]

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. Bosch has always been a middle of the road system. It's expensive, found in heavy bikes like R&M and appealed to people who wanted a "bike-like" ride while getting assist. It's not a popular view for forum members, but hub bikes with throttles will always make more sense for riders who are looking for a simple way to get from point A-B with the least amount of effort - they're perfect for older riders with disabilties or people who just want a more effortless way to commute. For the first time there are ebikes like the Creo and Gain that don't weigh a ton and actually give you a real bike experience - these types of bikes are perfect for riders who want a real bike experience but just need a bit of assist. That leaves Bosch in a sort of no man's land - they'll have a protected market in the EU since their nanny state ignores what actually works best and encourages ebikes that are slow and have no throttle, but it's pretty clear that something like the Creo makes a lot more sense in North America, and now that their alloy bikes are available I don't really see much advantage to buying a bulky, Bosch powered bike anymore.

 

[ruffruff]

Spot on that's why I now have two bikes.
1. Fat tire mid drive Bafang. In the snow and on trail the throttle is really helpful to get going.
2. eMtb with mid drive Yamaha. I want a more "real" bike feel when riding technical trails etc.

I'm 60 with blown knees, back, shoulders, you name it! I love biking and off road trail riding...I don't think I cold do it any more without some help!
My adult son is REALLY into mountain biking, this is our way to stay connected!

 

[fooferdoggie]

I doubt Bosch is in a no mans land. it has been one of the most reliable systems out there one of the most efficient ones too for the power to battery. with great shift detection and smooth power. of course its s not a high end system those don't sell as well because they cost so much. of course hub drives will sell more they are cheap and people buy cheap more then anything else. who knows about the throttle being a problem. I had one mid drive with it and now one without. it has not been an issue without it. would it be nice as a option? yes but its s not a deal killer. my Bosch powered bike just works its reliable shift great with no additional effort I know the battery will last and it gets me a long ways for a small battery.

 

[rich c]

I’m 67 and the Bosch system perfectly matches my riding style and requirements. I’m attempting to hold back the Grim Reaper with my cycling. I want to sweat on a ride, but enjoy the helping hand on hills and distance. I own 3 eBikes with Bosch and intend to ride Bosch as long as I am able. Been retired 5 years now, been riding 4 of those. Will very quickly hit the 10,000 mile club this spring.

 

[indianajo]

I went into electric assist requiring a throttle. I never considered a bosch, the drag of unpowered riding that system was conveniently communicated to me by this website. I live over the edge of civilization in the summer. I've just been notified my flip phone will be unsupported out there when they turn off 4G. I don't even get 4G out there, the signal is 3G. I have as much endurance as ever at age 69, but my knee was damaged by the Army and twisting it with weight on it leaves me unable to walk normally for days. I don't intend to spend $1800 a year on a car that will become useless in 10 years due to "check engine" problems however few miles you drove it. Besides my heart & knees need the exercise a 30 mile bike ride provides. A geared hub drive bike is perfect. If a tree limb drops on me, breaking something, or I step in a sink hole (again) the bike will drag me out to help. Meanwhile I pedal without power when the headwind is <13 mph. The bike feeling exactly as it did before only 12 lb heavier. Less weight than the previous steel bike with steel baskets. I put the extra weight on the front, since I carry 50 lb groceries on the back weekly.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I’m 67 and the Bosch system perfectly matches my riding style and requirements. I’m attempting to hold back the Grim Reaper with my cycling. I want to sweat on a ride, but enjoy the helping hand on hills and distance. I own 3 eBikes with Bosch and intend to ride Bosch as long as I am able. Been retired 5 years now, been riding 4 of those. Will very quickly hit the 10,000 mile club this spring.

sad here in portland I don't see many seniors on bikes of any kind. I doubt they feel safe on them even though portland is really bike friendly.

 

[Browneye]

Bosch just registered their hundred-thousandth's warranty claim. I wouldn't call that reliable, regardless of how many they sell.
I tried a Trek Verve and liked it, would have no problem with one from a local dealer - if it quit you drop it off and they fix it. I would even buy a Trek mountain bike if the model fit my needs and wants. I really want to try their new Rail5, new gen-4 bosch drive.

Same for Specialized and their Brose motor - sometimes they just replace the whole bike if it fails. So even if they have failures at least its relatively easy to get them fixed.

I really like the big-3, have owned bikes from all of them. I love my Giant, it doesn't have a throttle, but wife's does - they're more similar than different. Primarily if you're moving the pedals on her straight cadence sensor will power the motor no throttle needed, but it's there if you want it. Whereas torque-sensing requires you to apply pressure to get it to go like my Explore. I'm in pretty good shape at 63, and happy with the Yamaha mid-drive, and they have the most solid reliability record out there.

Confession...I did not watch the vid so my apologies if this unrelated.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

This video is representative of exactly one person's passionately and honestly held opinions. As such, I think one should be careful attempting to generalize from it in any way.

Some of his points, I think, are well taken -- since he is traveling with a trailer and attempting solar charging a Bosch system (especially the vanilla performance motor) isn't exactly a great choice. And while there isn't any imaginable way the Bosch could do regen I know of no Pedego model that has regenerative braking, so this is really a case where he is comparing nonexistent apples to imaginary oranges.

For what he is trying to do, I think he'd be happier and better off with one of the Juiced bikes (or maybe the Surface 604 that I've heard good things about) than with his Pedego.

Also, it seems from his videos most of his touring experiences are in relatively flat Eastern Canada. I suspect his opinions might be dramatically different if he was riding in mountainous Norway or Switzerland or Oregon.

 

[ruffruff]

I took it more general terms,
Mid drive throttle VS other options without a throttle.

He threw in the Bosch because that is what he is riding. He would have the same throttle-less complaint if he had Yamaha or Brose.
Maybe just my weird way of thinking, but that's how I took it.

 

[antboy]

Nice update (not sure if OP is Robert Beriault)

I think it was another post here on EBR where I discovered Mr. Beriault's custom bike camper, which I'm considering doing, just because, even though I have nowhere to store it since I'm a condo-dweller.

Bicycle camper | robertberiault

www.robertberiault.com

 

[Captain Slow]

Spot on that's why I now have two bikes.
1. Fat tire mid drive Bafang. In the snow and on trail the throttle is really helpful to get going.
2. eMtb with mid drive Yamaha. I want a more "real" bike feel when riding technical trails etc.

I'm 60 with blown knees, back, shoulders, you name it! I love biking and off road trail riding...I don't think I cold do it any more without some help!
My adult son is REALLY into mountain biking, this is our way to stay connected!

I had stopped mountain biking years ago, then my 12 year old son started to mountain bike and once he got into Enduro my wife insisted I go with him due to the possibility of injury. Of course I had to buy a new bike for that we ride together and it's a great way to spend time with him. Though he's now 13 soon to be 14 and he seems to like double blacks which I'm not all that fond of. I'm also not interested in getting big air as he seems to like to do, so as he gets older, bigger and stronger we ride trails differently. I'm good with a bit of air but it takes a long time to heal at my age!

IndianaJo - 50 lbs. of groceries - wow good for you.

My biggest complaint about hub drives is how most tend to have the bigger flat axle that is a pain to seat in the dropouts of the bike properly. Makes maintenance a pain. If more hub drives had round axles and torque arms like some of the models Grin sells then I'd be more willing to have a hub drive. The ones Grin has are simply too big and powerful for my liking. If they made the small Bafang G310 with regen braking, that would be something I'd put on my wife's Thrive as a conversion.

 

[rich c]

Bosch just registered their hundred-thousandth's warranty claim. I wouldn't call that reliable, regardless of how many they sell.

So percentage of units sold means nothing? Over how many years? If that total from day one they shipped, it's likely a pretty low percentage. We have riders bemoan the fact they get no warranty service at all. I bet some of them would love to have a company that supported their system.

 

[Explorer-1]

I took it more general terms,
Mid drive throttle VS other options without a throttle.

He threw in the Bosch because that is what he is riding. He would have the same throttle-less complaint if he had Yamaha or Brose.
Maybe just my weird way of thinking, but that's how I took it.

Sure I think that is valid for one of his main arguments; He needs a throttle.

The person who said he might have a different opinion in the hills must have missed something, because he would need the throttle even more there, they probably didn't watch the video to see him discuss hills.

It's probably more accurate to say he would never buy another Bosch e-bike based on the current models. Obviously I think if they changed their bikes he might consider them again. Like you said, he happened to own a Bosch, there are plenty of other bikes he would not buy as well based on his criteria just like the rest of us.

 

[Alex M]

In those cases {retired or near retiring}, choosing a premium brand with the latest and most sophisticated technology is not always benificial, but can even be less helpful (such as the lack of throttle).

Agreed to some points. The conclusion isn't new to me, though it's not so much about Bosch but rather a motor without throttle.

Also, many seniors have an excess of money, so they want - and can afford - something reliable and with dealers network, which usually means more-less established brand, though not necessarily upper end mid-drives.

Proprietary systems that don't allow any changes have never been high on my list. Bosch slow charger is just one example why.

Regenerative breaking isn't that important, IMO. Changing brake pads isn't difficult, and if you can get a shop do this for you, there isn't much else to say.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Bosch comess with a 4 amp charger thats far higher than what most e bikes come with you can buy a 8 am charger for them. all battery powered tools come with a charger that one works with that brand and thats the same for the most part of e bikes. being a mid drive bike you have a lot more choices on changing it.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

...
The person who said he might have a different opinion in the hills must have missed something, because he would need the throttle even more there, they probably didn't watch the video to see him discuss hills.
...

I am sorry, but I did watch that portion of the video.

I know of no street-legal, commercially available hub-drive bike that performs adequately in mountainous terrain. If you think you know different I invite you and your bike to visit me in my home and prove me wrong. Good whiskey, good coffee, and elk and buffalo tacos will be made available as long as you are my guest.

 

[antboy]

I'm not senior yet at 51, but since I do a fair amount of in-city riding, I find the throttle so beneficial at red lights and such.

I am sorry, but I did watch that portion of the video.

I know of no street-legal, commercially available hub-drive bike that performs adequately in mountainous terrain. If you think you know different I invite you and your bike to visit me in my home and prove me wrong. Good whiskey, good coffee, and elk and buffalo tacos will be made available as long as you are my guest.

Do we still get good whiskey and buffalo tacos if our bikes can't make it up the hill?