M2S All Terrain Spec confusion..

[Vern60]

I came across a discrepancy in M2S spec sheet that has me confused. I've been comparing the All Terrain bike with others such as the RadRover. Interestingly, in the review on the EBR site, Brent mentions

"Driving this bike to a top throttle only speed of 20 mph (or 28+ mph in Off Road Mode) and pedal assist speed of 28 mph (or 33+ mph in Off Road Mode) is a Bafang 750 watt geared hub motor in the rear wheel with 80 Newton meters of torque. M2S has this motor custom geared for top speed, and it shows."

I'm a little confused by M2S having the motor custom geared. Above Brent also mentions the torque rating of 80 Newton meters which seems to be the norm for the Bafaang 750 hub motor. However, the M2S site, (under specs), list the torque at 65 Newton meters.

OTHER

• RANGE: 20-45 miles per charge
• TOP SPEED: 28+ miles per hour
• TORQUE: 65 Newton Meters
• WEIGHT: ~65 pounds
• WARRANTY: 1-year comprehensive
• RACK & FENDERS: Included & removable

I wouldn't think changing the internal gearing would reduce the torque would it? I'll be the first to admit I probably don't have a proper understanding of torque, but .... it concerns me. Did M2S regear it for higher end, thereby reducing its low speed or climbing ability? Put another way, would the RadRover outperform it in a throttle only hill climb?
I see one other neat thing, apparently rack and fenders are included. Seems a nice price for the components. The Kush seems pretty nice too!
Final point, I noticed RadPower increased their prices by around $200, I read somewhere that was due to tariffs. I think that gives M2S a bump as they're made, (or assembled I suppose I should say) in the US and aren't subject to the tariffs? Just curious.

 

[Delta]

Hi Vern:
I cannot address your questions on the specs., you might try writing directly to M2S for that information. I have noticed that some of their bike specs and pictures are for earlier models (the first models they sold) and various things have been upgraded on the newer models. As for the bikes themselves, they are made in China and M2S does nothing to them here. Also, they raised their prices before the tariffs went into effect. Biktrix appears to assemble their bikes in Canada (where they are located) but their bikes also come from China.

 

[Vern60]

Hi Dela, thanks for the reply. They do seem like nice bikes, I was just wondering about that statement on the review about changing the gearing in the motor and curious how much that degrades the low speed or hill climbing performance.

 

[Delta]

Write to M2S about the motor. If they bother to answer you they will tell you if the gearing was changed and what affect it would have.

I just received their Ultra Fat a couple of weeks ago and it is a very nice machine. I also have an Addmotor M550 P7 750 watt hub drive and the difference between a hub motor and a mid drive is substantial. The mid drive gives you more of a work-out. Also, the full suspension on the Ultra is great.

RadPower has excellent customer service, you can even call them and a tech will talk to you. Biktrix also seems to have great customer service. M2S on the other hand can be very slow responding and sometimes they do not respond. I cannot understand how a company that seems good can leave their customers hanging like I have read they do. I have also experienced this problem with them.

 

[Vern60]

Hi Delta, thanks again for replying and great info. Sorry to hear their customer service is less than stellar.
Well, I won't bother writing them, I was just assuming it was as the reviewer Brent from this very web site claimed the gearing is custom.

 

[Rob Bay]

I have an R750 with rear hub and I can absolutely can tell the difference from my other bike although my last bike has 20" wheels. My old bike is very quick off the start line, can pop a small wheelie throttle only and tops out ~ 23 mph (this may have some to do with the 20" wheels) The R750 is slow off the start and just like they said in the reviews: "finds it's powerband above 20mph". It's hard to find specs but most mass production Bafang motors are 80nm. I think the M2S bike motor has less turns in the motor wiring which gives it the better top end. If you are going to hill climb with the R750 better get the speed up and/or use the pedals and the low gear ratio for slower uphill trails.

 

[Delta]

Hi Rob, thanks for the reply. The 750 watt mid-drive motor on my Ultra Fat has 160 Nm of power but the 750 watt rear hub motor on my other fat bike has more pep.

 

[Rob Bay]

Based on what I have read I am assuming the spec is 65nm. For the 10/mi a day continuous commuting I do it is pretty much just right for traffic light take-off as I am going with the flow and then some.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

I came across a discrepancy in M2S spec sheet that has me confused. I've been comparing the All Terrain bike with others such as the RadRover. Interestingly, in the review on the EBR site, Brent mentions

"Driving this bike to a top throttle only speed of 20 mph (or 28+ mph in Off Road Mode) and pedal assist speed of 28 mph (or 33+ mph in Off Road Mode) is a Bafang 750 watt geared hub motor in the rear wheel with 80 Newton meters of torque. M2S has this motor custom geared for top speed, and it shows."

I'm a little confused by M2S having the motor custom geared. Above Brent also mentions the torque rating of 80 Newton meters which seems to be the norm for the Bafaang 750 hub motor. However, the M2S site, (under specs), list the torque at 65 Newton meters.

OTHER

• RANGE: 20-45 miles per charge
• TOP SPEED: 28+ miles per hour
• TORQUE: 65 Newton Meters
• WEIGHT: ~65 pounds
• WARRANTY: 1-year comprehensive
• RACK & FENDERS: Included & removable

I wouldn't think changing the internal gearing would reduce the torque would it? I'll be the first to admit I probably don't have a proper understanding of torque, but .... it concerns me. Did M2S regear it for higher end, thereby reducing its low speed or climbing ability? Put another way, would the RadRover outperform it in a throttle only hill climb?
I see one other neat thing, apparently rack and fenders are included. Seems a nice price for the components. The Kush seems pretty nice too!
Final point, I noticed RadPower increased their prices by around $200, I read somewhere that was due to tariffs. I think that gives M2S a bump as they're made, (or assembled I suppose I should say) in the US and aren't subject to the tariffs? Just curious.

None of M2S's ebikes are made or assembled here. They are coming from a factory in China, and the ebikes they choose are commonly found on Alibaba. They have a China firm simply put a logo on an already China designed frame and spec'd components. the speeds talked about are also rather a stretch for that 750. Not that it really matters at that low of a price, and they are using a rather common hub drive offered by bafang. Parts will be easy to find and get for it.

If M2S isn't passing on the tariff yet, and just absorbing it, it'll be interesting if they can hold that pricing for much longer into 2019. Only a very few firms have been able to switch from China production to either Taiwan or Vietnam for new production, to 'avoid' the tariffs. If Trump gets a deal done, those tariffs may go away anyway, so maybe M2S is just taking a gamble, and 'gutting it out' until the dust clears with the china deal ?

The All terrain frame, is virtually identical to frames offered by at least 10 different China firms on Alibaba. When the owner started out, he basically pre-sold a bunch of units, lowering his risk of getting anywhere from 40 to 100 ebikes coming over in a container. (spoke with him by phone). I remember seeing original photos at his website from when he first started out back a couple seasons ago, looked just like this one shown on Zhejiang Kaiyi's product page. https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...ml?spm=a2700.icbuShop.41413.54.1c434c42k4f8XA

At least have to admire his courage for being an importer like he is, taking the risk of handling warranty issues, stocking their parts, and hoping the factory produces consistent quality. To his credit he has been able to deliver ebikes with some decent specs at a lower price than others from brand names that are a bit more common.

 

[TForan]

Hi Rob, thanks for the reply. The 750 watt mid-drive motor on my Ultra Fat has 160 Nm of power but the 750 watt rear hub motor on my other fat bike has more pep.

Is it tuned to 750 watts for regulatory concerns ?

 

[pdm777]

Update on M2S customer service:

***** GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE ***** Thanks M2S !!!!

My DualSport Ultra was gradually getting less and less range.
I reached out to M2S, thinking my battery was faulty.

They responded, gave helpful insights, and helped me to
determine that the motor, not the battery, was faulty.

11 months into the 12 month warranty, they immediately
shipped a brand new Ultra motor within hours of me posting
a youtube vid of the dying motor.

Then they sent me a shipping tag to ship the broken motor back to them.
( I fully expected to have to eat shipping costs )

It was a simple task to R/R the motor, anyone with basic skills can do it.

P.S. - the Ultra motor had been built with part of the internal harness
smashed between case halves, no fault of M2S, sh*t happens in manufacturing.

***** GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE ***** Thanks M2S !!!!

Anyone contemplating the Bafang Ultra motor --- do it !!! amazing power, amazing fun.
Be forewarned, if you are at hooliganinizing at full throttle, it will consume the battery quickly.
At normal sane speeds, it has very good range. It takes self control not hitting the throttle all the time ...
at sane riding speeds, it is efficient. (ECO 2 is equivalent to 500W ebike / SPORT 5 = hang on!)

 

[FlatSix911]

Here is a new review from Electrek.

Review: M2S All Terrain R750 — sweet spot, sweet price

The M2S All Terrain R750 sits in the sweet spot of off-road, comfort, and commuting. The price is great, too,...

electrek.co

• Motor: 750W Bafang rear hub motor
• Top speed: 20 mph (32 km/h) user-programmable
• Battery: 48V 21Ah (1008Wh) lockable and removable battery
• Range: 70 mi (112.6 km) estimate
• Frame: Aluminum
• Weight: 62 lb (28.1 kg)
• Brakes: Tektro hydraulic disc (180mm discs)
• Tires: 29″ x 3″
• Price: $1,999 (reviewed with upgrade & accessories)
• Extras: mozo front air shock, integrated headlight, integrated taillight, throttle, optional rear rack, optional metal fenders, optional high-capacity battery, color and frame options

 

[Smong]

No comment on the spec question but I will say that M2S has been very responsive to my calls and questions. GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE. I bought an M2S Ultramax HT which had a cosmetic defect on the battery and had a new one in hand within a few days along with a return prepaid label for the original. I ordered a pair of 27.5" wheels for it and one of the wheels was lost in shipping. They pack them in seperate boxes which are then strapped together... A call to them and next day a new wheel was shipped out.

The direct to consumer business model doesn't work for everyone but is perfect for those of us who can turn a wrench to tighten bolts, adjust a derailler and brakes, and use a multimeter if ever needed. As long as you have Google and don't mind that kind of minimal responsibility, you can save a bunch of money over an equivalently set up ebike. Probably not the best choice if you are the type who brings their bike to the shop when 'the gears are clicking and skipping' and has cash to burn.