Luna X2 Impressions (Hydra Comparison)

[Csubi]

Dang, that's annoying. The large that my friend has is REALLY big. Like, seriously huge. I can hardly ride it at 5'9". My medium Hydra is honestly pretty big for me too, with a reach of 480mm. I'm more comfortable around 430-450mm.

I am 5'11" Just a hair under 6ft. Will the medium be good for me?

 

[smorgasbord]

• The Sram GX Eagle 12 speed shifter they fitted to the X2 is really bad. It jammed twice when just trying to test out running through the gears. The upshift lever is also reversed from how Shimano does it which is an ergonomic nightmare... it's really hard to find a position on the handlebars where hitting that thing is easy. The actuation force was too high for shifting down to larger gears, and it just didn't feel very good. It came with a 38T chainring and 11-51T cassette.

Late to this thread, but I believe the X2 has the cheaper SX setup from SRAM, not the GX. My wife and I run the full GX setup on our bikes, and we love them. Goes down to 10T on the small end for a higher high gear. Since neither of us rode Shimano shifters before, we actually have the reverse ergonomic view - when I ride other people's bikes it's initially confusing to me. If the shifting force is too great, maybe that's the SX shifter, or maybe the bike isn't properly adjusted, as my wife has bad thumbs but can deal just fine with the GX shifter on her bike.

I agree with you about SRAM brakes. I pulled those off my wife's bike and sold them, replacing them with Shimanos. I also think Luna has been down speccing their bikes for a couple years now. It used to be they high-speeced them, but I think their pricing reduced sales. WW didn't have anything similar when we were shopping for bikes, but today I'd look at them if only for the component customization options available to save money on speccing a bike properly.

 

[kwseattle]

I am 5'11" Just a hair under 6ft. Will the medium be good for me?

I've got a medium Hydra and it works great for me at 5'9" but the reach is actually quite long. I honestly wouldn't mind a small, but I ended up buying a non-powered mountain bike for trail riding so having a small nimble ride for trails doesn't matter as much for my ebike anymore.

Late to this thread, but I believe the X2 has the cheaper SX setup from SRAM, not the GX. My wife and I run the full GX setup on our bikes, and we love them. Goes down to 10T on the small end for a higher high gear. Since neither of us rode Shimano shifters before, we actually have the reverse ergonomic view - when I ride other people's bikes it's initially confusing to me. If the shifting force is too great, maybe that's the SX shifter, or maybe the bike isn't properly adjusted, as my wife has bad thumbs but can deal just fine with the GX shifter on her bike.

I agree with you about SRAM brakes. I pulled those off my wife's bike and sold them, replacing them with Shimanos. I also think Luna has been down speccing their bikes for a couple years now. It used to be they high-speeced them, but I think their pricing reduced sales. WW didn't have anything similar when we were shopping for bikes, but today I'd look at them if only for the component customization options available to save money on speccing a bike properly.

I'll edit that, I meant to say SX. The SX shifter was garbage, it jammed literally every time he rode the bike. A $50 GX shifter fixed that issue.

 

[kwseattle]

The SRAM SX shifter comes with the X2, & if you're having trouble shifting you need to adjust your barrel on the SX. If it is jumping up you gotta go one way and jumping down or having trouble completing the gear change you need to go the other way. Youtube the fix & it's so simple, if still having trouble the Derailleur may need some adjusting as well. I had the same issue, took me 20 minutes to fix it on my X2 Ludicrous I got 2 weeks ago. The KS Brand lever, is great you need to adjust the play, then with a light push, it will work great. I swapped the KS ETEN-I for a cheap but works great PNW Components 200mm Rainier Gen3 with Travel Adjust. MY X2 ludicrous came with NX cassette 10t-50t, The rest of the drivetrain was SX parts. If you swap to the GX shifter & Derailleur you will have a much smoother setup, also stepping up to a GX cassette will change the game completely. I eventually plan to swap my whole drivetrain to XD driver when I get new hubs, rims, & tires & go to the SRAM GX setup. I mean I hate the fact the downshift is the opposite of Shimano, but I got used to it fast enough. I also removed the up-shift lever & changed the location so upshift and downshift were closer & now it's butter smooth for a cheap SX SRAM setup. Though If I had endless money I would prob go to Shimano XT Deore 8100 Setup running 10 or 11speed if only riding on the road but 100% a 12 Gear with micro spline instead of XD if I am riding trails too, & Magura MT7E Brakes. As well as upgrade both the front and rear shocks. I have had so many Quality Check issues with the LUNA X2 that I was SUPER PISSED at first. But they were such easy fixes. I had Error Code 30, then the bike stopped powering up, and one of the cables behind the battery was pinched behind silver wire guides & needed repairing, also the plugs into the side of the Engine weren't plugged in properly. BUT Luna did get back to me immediately about Error 30, & since I fixed that I have no longer had any issues. One great thing about the ludicrous is fixed throttle amps & being able to use that power to pass just about anyone on the trail over short distances, or when launching off small jumps. I have basically done all the upgrades you mentioned except the shifter & derailleur because I want to do the same time as my hubs/rims swap. The Stamp 7 Large pedals aren't that much bigger than the OneUp. So I went with the OneUp Oil Slick & grip is incredible. Also the UPGRADED Silent gear/peak gear X2 Ludicrous is LOUD AS HECK! Just as loud as the ultra M620 on my brother's Bakcou mule, & 4 times as loud as the brand new stock bafang M600 on the FLX F5 trail my dad rides( which by the way also has the plastic silent gear because BAFANG now ships all M600's with that silent Gear, found that out when replacing the torque sensor on the M600 in the FLX for my father. I would love to own the HYDRA, but I think my next buy will be the HPC REVOLUTION AT. Also after my upgrades to my X2 Ludicrous with battery weighs in at ~50.7lbs with battery.(Soon to be under 50lbs). I expect as I do more upgrades I will eventually get her down to about =<47lbs. THE LUNA X2 LUDICROUS is loud VERY VERY loud. I was not impressed with the PEAK GEAR at all. Which was disappointing. Hope I helped some.

He ended up buying a GX shifter because the cable would jam in the SX shifter pretty much every time he rode the bike. It was not good.

Brakes still suck, the Sram Guide G2 or whatever are not good and I would not recommend anyone put these on an ebike. Maybe with better than stock pads, but even after sanding the pads and repeating the break in procedure they didn't feel very good.

Sucks to hear about the noise with the M600, I thought his was very quiet compared to my Hydra which is loud as hell. Every other e-bike I see on the trails these days is practically silent with Shimano and Bosch motors (though, gutless in comparison).

I've been riding my regular Santa Cruz Bronson a lot more than my Hydra lately because it's so much lighter and more tossable. I'm actually making a lot of progress on jump trails and singletrack where there's no way in hell I'd be able to send my Hydra over big gaps and jumps.

 

[greeno]

If your Ultra is "loud as hell" pop the side cover off and check the grease level.
A friend got an upgraded WW Archon X1 2300w motor about a year and a half ago and when first riding it I could hear him form a ways away coming up on me so we split the case and discovered minimal grease so we cleaned it all out and used some Mobil 28 and after about 10 minutes of riding it quieted down considerably.
These motors are gonna make some noise if your spinning at max rpm due to having all steel gearing but thats the breaks for having 1000w+.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Hopefully I can help him get them sorted. My Magura brakes are a bit noisy too but I don't mind considering how damn well they work, and the mineral oil is a bonus too!


I'm scared about two piece rotors on a bike for this reason lol. His bike came with regular tubes, no Tannus armor (with Schrader valves for some reason). That would certainly explain part of the discrepancy. The M600 is quite a bit smaller though so I'm assuming most of the weight comes from the M620 on the Hydra. I weighed my Hydra battery at about 8 pounds, putting the whole bike right at about 60.

I really would love to try riding even a non-powered mountain bike to see how different it is on trails. I have no experience with regular MTBs but I am loving riding singletrack so much that I'm starting to consider buying a second bike I can actually lift onto the roof of my car and take to bike parks that don't allow ebikes. Trying to cram the Hydra into the trunk of my 3-series is really tricky

I was originally going to buy a Luna Apollo last year, but couldn't get word on availability, so I decided on the Hydra. I do find it interesting they have so much more frame availability than WW seems to have.

I've installed MT 5e's and 7'e on three bikes now. No warped anything and will bring me down from high-speed, downhill over and over and over. No fade.
I've done serious stops where I had to modulate back and forth from completely locked-up 3, even 4 times. Tail end starts coming around and I let up, straightens out and back to locked.
Using MDR P's in front (both bikes), they came true and installed easy. Only time I've encountered even a cheap rotor being bent, it was me that did it.
Wipe down w/ ethanol. No chatter. No screech. Nothing but predictable stopping power.
Two examples:

I find Storm disks lock up a little earlier, no other differences. MDR P are for serious stuff where rotor heats up.
Great hands on review.
If outer rim on disc became slightly loose, with your experience you'd know way before catastrophic failure.
An update where you stand now would be interesting.

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

I recently watched a video on a new braking setup for ebikes, which include vented rotors!!

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I recently watched a video on a new braking setup for ebikes, which include vented rotors!!

Hope V4 220mm's? These rotors ?
They sound awesome. Good stuff on the Hope V4 vs Maguras here.
New V4 Rotor's 288gm. Lighter than MDR P's ‎313gms.

How did your brakes work after sitting upside down?
I wonder if a lot of 'bleeding' complaints are 'cold weather' related. Mineral oil gets thicker.
Raising front end for max straight vertical shot from the caliper to the lever is said to help.
I had an LBS do 300mile maintenance. MT 7's felt about the same.

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

Brakes work fine.

 

[smorgasbord]

After bleeding brakes on various cars over the decades, I was surprised to discover the hard way just how different bleeding bicycle brakes are. The first culprit is that the inside hose diameter is very small. With Shimano, they decided to make the newer BH90 hose inside diameter smaller than the previous BH59, in an effort to reduce the amount pressure loss from liquid (mineral oil) compression.

But, these small inside diameter hoses are also really great at trapping air. So, even if you remove the caliper and hang it so the hose is vertical, air bubbles can still stick inside the hose. And depending on the caliper design, how it hangs can also potentially trap some air. And so we have all the tricks people use, from pushing fluid not just from the top but from the bottom, flicking the lever, tapping the hose, etc.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

After bleeding brakes on various cars over the decades, I was surprised to discover the hard way just how different bleeding bicycle brakes are. The first culprit is that the inside hose diameter is very small. With Shimano, they decided to make the newer BH90 hose inside diameter smaller than the previous BH59, in an effort to reduce the amount pressure loss from liquid (mineral oil) compression.

But, these small inside diameter hoses are also really great at trapping air. So, even if you remove the caliper and hang it so the hose is vertical, air bubbles can still stick inside the hose. And depending on the caliper design, how it hangs can also potentially trap some air. And so we have all the tricks people use, from pushing fluid not just from the top but from the bottom, flicking the lever, tapping the hose, etc.

Exactly. Same here since the 60's and up to the late 80's building rally cars.
Bikes use hose diameter too small and the bubbles adhere. Mineral Oil is a poor lubricant.
I'm thinking using a vacuum pump - same as I did w/ rally builds - in fact all my vehicles.
Mineral oil will degas. Still as much vertical run as possible is a good idea.
Tapping on the caliper also helps release trapped bubbles. They're only adhering by a few (surface tension) molecules.
If the calipers are still mushy, remove and shake/ tap; rotate position around and air will come out - under vacuum at the top end.
I have a new (metal type) - very 'old stock' hand pump, tried it on some bitchy Tektro's, I used vacuum and left overnight. It worked fabulously.
The hand pumps (made in the 70's and 80's) are a bit rare, but worth the find.
Juggling air saturated Mineral oil back-and-forth won't work that well. Turn empty space into a vacuum, nature abhors that state and fills it with whatever gasses are in whatever liquids in the mix.
Run vacuum up a bit higher, gasses boil off.
Not sure about over exuberant brake bleeding fetish either.
As pads wear lever input changes. Nothing to do with fluid.
Change pads, pedal input goes back where it was.
All the Magura brakes I obtained were sealed and no bleeding required.
I can see if I'd have to route through frame to rear, disconnecting the line.
Cutting the front line shorter doesn't fill the caliper with air.
Going to the rear, cut and install a tight silicone (plug) seal in the lever-end tube and feed through from bottom up to lever. Then cut (at least) that sealed inch off; install fittings and attach hose to lever.
Now top off and bleed. Nothing to do with caliper unless clutzed.
Changing pads why bleed brakes?

Fn'F

 

[TPEHAK]

Luna makes VESC based controller for Bafang m600 capable up to 72V 2500W fully customizable, configurable and upgradable with the VESC application with your phone! They do not sell this controller separately but it looks like if you are a Luna customer they may sell you the controller as an upgrade. Anyone tried it? it looks like an amazing alternative to Innotrace X1 controller for m620 which is out of business now.

Luna M600 Ludicrous V2

New Ludicrous tech is coming to our M600 drive units! Smooth, efficient and customizable, this new controller shares the same platform of our BBSHD ludicrous v2 controller in a tighter package, fully integrated with the Luna X2 bike.This is a 12 MOSFET controller, running at high frequency for...

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