Luna X2 Impressions (Hydra Comparison)

[Ebiker33]

@kwseattle

I think Watt Wagons should definitely put together a Dengfu E10/Bafang M600 package as a cheaper option for people who would like less power, a quieter motor, and better customization options than Luna offers.

Actually they kind of did with a joint project with Area 13(Bolton ebikes) code name Falcon at 5K per Ebike

​

 

[kwseattle]

@kwseattle

Actually they kind of did with a joint project with Area 13(Bolton ebikes) code name Falcon at 5K per Ebike

​

Oh wow, I like the updated frame design too!

 

[JRA]

Oh wow, I like the updated frame design too!

Just an E05 frame that has been available for at least a few years. 120mm travel

E05

DENGFU E05 is a mountain E-bike. Equipped with BAFANG M600 G521 500W 48V motor and DENGFU Lithium-ion 48V 14Ah 672Wh battery. TORAY T700 carbon fiber frame, 120mm full suspension, internal cable routing, post mount disc brake. used for Trail riding. Normally we use EMS and DPD as our logistics...

www.dengfubike.com

 

[loamoaf]

Crazy thing is the top tube in the photo is slightly different - slightly modified design of the E05 frame. Potentially to get around Luna licensing for that frame in NA? The Area13 site diagram for the frame is literally the Dengfu diagram for the E05 though. Unsure if the cable ports are the same too - my E06 the shifter cable feeds through a hole from the back of the motor bracket and into the chainstay, then pops out a port on the chainstay. Same with the brake line too. Again not sure if this is an E05 thing or Falcon thing but the shift cable ports on the Falcon are at the motor bracket and don't feet into the chainstay. I gotta say I do love how clean the cable situation is on my E06 - I just wish there was another port on the bottom of the non-drive side chainstay to reach the speed sensor to the rear axle instead of the built in mount on the frame for a spoke magnet.

 

[TomD]

Yeah, the E05 is an older frame design. It was the alternative provided by Dengfu for folks in NA that wanted the X1 frame. The X2 frame is the most recent iteration and Luna doesn't have a NA exclusive like they did on the X1 frame. Biktrix offers the same frame as the X2, although I'm told it's made by a different CF manufacturer. I'm not sure why Bolton/WW just doesn't offer the most recent frame design, maybe just to differentiate.

 

[kwseattle]

Just an E05 frame that has been available for at least a few years. 120mm travel

E05

DENGFU E05 is a mountain E-bike. Equipped with BAFANG M600 G521 500W 48V motor and DENGFU Lithium-ion 48V 14Ah 672Wh battery. TORAY T700 carbon fiber frame, 120mm full suspension, internal cable routing, post mount disc brake. used for Trail riding. Normally we use EMS and DPD as our logistics...

www.dengfubike.com

Gotcha, yeah I've seen these frames around for a while but I was under the impression they were replacing the frames the Hydra and Luna X2 use because I can't find them anymore on Dengfu's website.

 

[Lbrava]

I liked the OP's 1st post but most others are way over my head. I'm just looking to buy an Luna X2 (my 1st ebike purchase) and would like some feedback on how you Luna owners like riding it and have they been reliable. Bike will used 60/40 pavement/dirt.

 

[rtp]

I liked the OP's 1st post but most others are way over my head. I'm just looking to buy an Luna X2 (my 1st ebike purchase) and would like some feedback on how you Luna owners like riding it and have they been reliable. Bike will used 60/40 pavement/dirt.

Might want to check the Luna forum on EBR and their own forums as well.
Here's my X2 writeup: Luna X2 - First Impressions

No issues of significance with mine to date. Replaced seat, dropper, shifter and swapped in a DVO for the rear shock.
I'd buy mine again today.

 

[Lbrava]

Might want to check the Luna forum on EBR and their own forums as well.
Here's my X2 writeup: Luna X2 - First Impressions

No issues of significance with mine to date. Replaced seat, dropper, shifter and swapped in a DVO for the rear shock.
I'd buy mine again today.

Thanks, I read your write up & sounds like your happy with the bike despite a few minor problems, maybe some of which have been fixed on the new X2. I didn't know there was a Luna forum I'll check that out. Overall I really like the spec & price of the X2 hopefully I'll feel the same after a few months of ownership. Got a call into Luna about what's avaible size wise & see what happens.

 

[kwseattle]

I liked the OP's 1st post but most others are way over my head. I'm just looking to buy an Luna X2 (my 1st ebike purchase) and would like some feedback on how you Luna owners like riding it and have they been reliable. Bike will used 60/40 pavement/dirt.

After my friend has had it for a few weeks and I've gotten to ride it a couple of times, I've decided that the stock motor controller is NOT powerful enough lol. Order the Luna controller if you buy one. It shipped with a Sram SX shifter which jams almost every time he rides the bike, so buy a GX 12 speed shifter for about $50 and install that instead.

The hubs that Luna uses are branded as Quanta which is an AlieExpress special that has aluminum spacers on the ends that are removable for servicing the bearings. While this sounds great, these spacers pop out/fall off extremely easily and he lost one when removing the front wheel rendering the whole bike useless until he could get a new spacer. Luna required a minimum lot of 12 spacers (thankfully for only $12).

 

[Lbrava]

After my friend has had it for a few weeks and I've gotten to ride it a couple of times, I've decided that the stock motor controller is NOT powerful enough lol. Order the Luna controller if you buy one. It shipped with a Sram SX shifter which jams almost every time he rides the bike, so buy a GX 12 speed shifter for about $50 and install that instead.

The hubs that Luna uses are branded as Quanta which is an AlieExpress special that has aluminum spacers on the ends that are removable for servicing the bearings. While this sounds great, these spacers pop out/fall off extremely easily and he lost one when removing the front wheel rendering the whole bike useless until he could get a new spacer. Luna required a minimum lot of 12 spacers (thankfully for only $12).

Good info. thanks, I tried to buy one today called Luna and there out of stock on mediums, they said they will not have any more availble untill they sell out there large & small X2's. Doesn't make sense to me but that's there business plan. Kinda bummed after researching other emtb's I really wanted the X2. The Trek power fly 9 was another choice also sold out. The Specialized Levo Alloy is avaible so might go that route.

 

[kwseattle]

Good info. thanks, I tried to buy one today called Luna and there out of stock on mediums, they said they will not have any more availble untill they sell out there large & small X2's. Doesn't make sense to me but that's there business plan. Kinda bummed after researching other emtb's I really wanted the X2. The Trek power fly 9 was another choice also sold out. The Specialized Levo Alloy is avaible so might go that route.

Dang, that's annoying. The large that my friend has is REALLY big. Like, seriously huge. I can hardly ride it at 5'9". My medium Hydra is honestly pretty big for me too, with a reach of 480mm. I'm more comfortable around 430-450mm.

 

[Lbrava]

Dang, that's annoying. The large that my friend has is REALLY big. Like, seriously huge. I can hardly ride it at 5'9". My medium Hydra is honestly pretty big for me too, with a reach of 480mm. I'm more comfortable around 430-450mm.

Interesting, I'm trying to find the reach of the X2 small frame and they don't show this on there chart. I think I may be able to get away with a small X2 but not sure yet. The wheelbase of the small x2 is same or bit longer than other Giant/Trek Mediums, top tube reach is about 4cm shorter than Giant/Trek
Not sure why Luna doesn't publish stack & reach dimensions as from what I've read those 2 are important for sizing your bike.
I also read that smaller frame maybe not as stable as a larger frame but with 123cm wheel base on the small X2 I would think this would lead to stability given the rake and trail is OK but again Luna doesn't publish those numbers. But also not sure on how tire size affects the wheel base numbers as the Luna using 27.5 Trek 29"
I'd like to here any comments on the Luna frame sizing as I can't sit on one and trying to compare it to other manufacture sizing is difficult & I just don't know enough to make a decision.
Thanks

 

[kwseattle]

I found a geometry comparison of the Dengfu E10 (M600) frame, does Luna say what size the frames are in inches?

Geometry Geeks

The world's biggest open geometry database. Find bikes by name or numbers. Easily compare bike geometry side-by-side.

geometrygeeks.bike

 

[rtp]

Luna sells the S, M and L but not XL frames for the X2.

E10 GEOMETRY

E10 GEOMETRY

www.dengfubike.com

 

[Lbrava]

I found a geometry comparison of the Dengfu E10 (M600) frame, does Luna say what size the frames are in inches?

[URL unfurl="true]https://geometrygeeks.bike/"bike/dengfu-e10-bafang-2020/[/URL]

Thats cool, where did you find the comparison ? I saw this one but it's for 2020 frame & they show a 15" & a 17" Luna advertises a 16" frame, maybe the same or maybe Dengfu changed em for 2022 ?
Anyway thanks for info.

 

[kwseattle]

Thats cool, where did you find the comparison ? I saw this one but it's for 2020 frame & they show a 15" & a 17" Luna advertises a 16" frame, maybe the same or maybe Dengfu changed em for 2022 ?
Anyway thanks for info.

I think I just Googled it lol. This geometrygeeks link came up.

 

[perseverantone2.0]

Friend of mine just bought a Luna X2 with the Bafang M600 motor and Rockshox suspension. It was on sale for $4,200, shipped quickly, and arrived within a week.

View attachment 123431

Same angle direct comparison to my Hydra:

View attachment 123432

As you can see, the Dengfu E10 frame geometry for the M600 build is slightly different than the M620 geometry. The downtube is at a shallower angle and the shock mounts to the downtube instead of the top tube. It looks like the seatpost position is moved slightly forward with a shorter top tube.

Some thoughts after a few short hours of comparison:

• The Sram GX Eagle 12 speed shifter they fitted to the X2 is really bad. It jammed twice when just trying to test out running through the gears. The upshift lever is also reversed from how Shimano does it which is an ergonomic nightmare... it's really hard to find a position on the handlebars where hitting that thing is easy. The actuation force was too high for shifting down to larger gears, and it just didn't feel very good. It came with a 38T chainring and 11-51T cassette.
• The Rockshox Yari fork and Deluxe Select+ shock seem okay, haven't ridden it on trails to see how they feel. The shock is much shorter on the X2 than on my Hydra.
• The KS branded dropper post isn't great, the lever is a weird shape, requires too much effort, and the travel is like half that of the Crankbrothers one on my Hydra. For some reason when adjusting the fixed position height, it started acting weird and slowly letting the seat down.
• I don't like the Sram hydraulic disc brakes. They don't bite very hard and one of the rotors arrived warped so that'll need to be fixed at a shop. The lever action feels good at least.
• The Bafang M600 is QUIET! Luna fits a custom PEEK gear into the M600 and you can literally barely hear it. Very jealous of that. This motor is the main reason I'd consider a bike like this.
• My friend ordered the stock motor controller instead of Luna's ludicrous controller, but the stock controller is okay. The torque sensor isn't as good/sensitive as the Hydra's and obviously it's not super powerful in comparison to the M620 with Archon X1. In my 500 watt assist level my bike felt faster than in max assist on the X2. I think it's tuned to class 3 from the factory.
• The wiring harness for the M600 has higher quality connectors than the M620 ones, and you can unplug the harness directly from the display. I wish Bafang would update this for the M620. The speed sensor has a connector in-line which makes replacement easy.
• General build quality is pretty good, there could be some cable management improvements up front. Paint quality is pretty good too.
• Luna's custom pedals are not very grippy (dangerously so) and I would immediately replace them if it were my bike.
• It came with a much cheaper WTB saddle than the Fizik one fitted to my Hydra.
• We weighed our bikes without the batteries and the Luna X2 was 6 pounds lighter. (The M620 is HEAVY)
• The battery case is identical, though its a 48V 17.5 AH battery as opposed to the 52V ~14 AH Hydra battery.

In general with a couple of changes (dropper, pedals, brakes, shifter, upgraded controller) I would really like the X2, I think Watt Wagons should definitely put together a Dengfu E10/Bafang M600 package as a cheaper option for people who would like less power, a quieter motor, and better customization options than Luna offers.

The SRAM SX shifter comes with the X2, & if you're having trouble shifting you need to adjust your barrel on the SX. If it is jumping up you gotta go one way and jumping down or having trouble completing the gear change you need to go the other way. Youtube the fix & it's so simple, if still having trouble the Derailleur may need some adjusting as well. I had the same issue, took me 20 minutes to fix it on my X2 Ludicrous I got 2 weeks ago. The KS Brand lever, is great you need to adjust the play, then with a light push, it will work great. I swapped the KS ETEN-I for a cheap but works great PNW Components 200mm Rainier Gen3 with Travel Adjust. MY X2 ludicrous came with NX cassette 10t-50t, The rest of the drivetrain was SX parts. If you swap to the GX shifter & Derailleur you will have a much smoother setup, also stepping up to a GX cassette will change the game completely. I eventually plan to swap my whole drivetrain to XD driver when I get new hubs, rims, & tires & go to the SRAM GX setup. I mean I hate the fact the downshift is the opposite of Shimano, but I got used to it fast enough. I also removed the up-shift lever & changed the location so upshift and downshift were closer & now it's butter smooth for a cheap SX SRAM setup. Though If I had endless money I would prob go to Shimano XT Deore 8100 Setup running 10 or 11speed if only riding on the road but 100% a 12 Gear with micro spline instead of XD if I am riding trails too, & Magura MT7E Brakes. As well as upgrade both the front and rear shocks. I have had so many Quality Check issues with the LUNA X2 that I was SUPER PISSED at first. But they were such easy fixes. I had Error Code 30, then the bike stopped powering up, and one of the cables behind the battery was pinched behind silver wire guides & needed repairing, also the plugs into the side of the Engine weren't plugged in properly. BUT Luna did get back to me immediately about Error 30, & since I fixed that I have no longer had any issues. One great thing about the ludicrous is fixed throttle amps & being able to use that power to pass just about anyone on the trail over short distances, or when launching off small jumps. I have basically done all the upgrades you mentioned except the shifter & derailleur because I want to do the same time as my hubs/rims swap. The Stamp 7 Large pedals aren't that much bigger than the OneUp. So I went with the OneUp Oil Slick & grip is incredible. Also the UPGRADED Silent gear/peak gear X2 Ludicrous is LOUD AS HECK! Just as loud as the ultra M620 on my brother's Bakcou mule, & 4 times as loud as the brand new stock bafang M600 on the FLX F5 trail my dad rides( which by the way also has the plastic silent gear because BAFANG now ships all M600's with that silent Gear, found that out when replacing the torque sensor on the M600 in the FLX for my father. I would love to own the HYDRA, but I think my next buy will be the HPC REVOLUTION AT. Also after my upgrades to my X2 Ludicrous with battery weighs in at ~50.7lbs with battery.(Soon to be under 50lbs). I expect as I do more upgrades I will eventually get her down to about =<47lbs. THE LUNA X2 LUDICROUS is loud VERY VERY loud. I was not impressed with the PEAK GEAR at all. Which was disappointing. Hope I helped some.

 

[perseverantone2.0]

Thats cool, where did you find the comparison ? I saw this one but it's for 2020 frame & they show a 15" & a 17" Luna advertises a 16" frame, maybe the same or maybe Dengfu changed em for 2022 ?
Anyway thanks for info.

I think LUNA uses the 2019 Frame by Dengfu still

 

[Flannel Guy]

The SRAM SX shifter comes with the X2, & if you're having trouble shifting you need to adjust your barrel on the SX. If it is jumping up you gotta go one way and jumping down or having trouble completing the gear change you need to go the other way. Youtube the fix & it's so simple, if still having trouble the Derailleur may need some adjusting as well. I had the same issue, took me 20 minutes to fix it on my X2 Ludicrous I got 2 weeks ago. The KS Brand lever, is great you need to adjust the play, then with a light push, it will work great. I swapped the KS ETEN-I for a cheap but works great PNW Components 200mm Rainier Gen3 with Travel Adjust. MY X2 ludicrous came with NX cassette 10t-50t, The rest of the drivetrain was SX parts. If you swap to the GX shifter & Derailleur you will have a much smoother setup, also stepping up to a GX cassette will change the game completely. I eventually plan to swap my whole drivetrain to XD driver when I get new hubs, rims, & tires & go to the SRAM GX setup. I mean I hate the fact the downshift is the opposite of Shimano, but I got used to it fast enough. I also removed the up-shift lever & changed the location so upshift and downshift were closer & now it's butter smooth for a cheap SX SRAM setup. Though If I had endless money I would prob go to Shimano XT Deore 8100 Setup running 10 or 11speed if only riding on the road but 100% a 12 Gear with micro spline instead of XD if I am riding trails too, & Magura MT7E Brakes. As well as upgrade both the front and rear shocks. I have had so many Quality Check issues with the LUNA X2 that I was SUPER PISSED at first. But they were such easy fixes. I had Error Code 30, then the bike stopped powering up, and one of the cables behind the battery was pinched behind silver wire guides & needed repairing, also the plugs into the side of the Engine weren't plugged in properly. BUT Luna did get back to me immediately about Error 30, & since I fixed that I have no longer had any issues. One great thing about the ludicrous is fixed throttle amps & being able to use that power to pass just about anyone on the trail over short distances, or when launching off small jumps. I have basically done all the upgrades you mentioned except the shifter & derailleur because I want to do the same time as my hubs/rims swap. The Stamp 7 Large pedals aren't that much bigger than the OneUp. So I went with the OneUp Oil Slick & grip is incredible. Also the UPGRADED Silent gear/peak gear X2 Ludicrous is LOUD AS HECK! Just as loud as the ultra M620 on my brother's Bakcou mule, & 4 times as loud as the brand new stock bafang M600 on the FLX F5 trail my dad rides( which by the way also has the plastic silent gear because BAFANG now ships all M600's with that silent Gear, found that out when replacing the torque sensor on the M600 in the FLX for my father. I would love to own the HYDRA, but I think my next buy will be the HPC REVOLUTION AT. Also after my upgrades to my X2 Ludicrous with battery weighs in at 49.7lbs. I expect as I do more upgrades I will eventually get her down to about ~47lbs. THE LUNA X2 LUDICROUS is loud VERY VERY loud. I was not impressed with the PEAK GEAR at all. Which was disappointing. Hope I helped some.

I like the lightness but not the loudness. Was surprised how quiet my Hydra with x1 is. At low speed/cadence it's as quiet as my 500w hub bike - when you're spinning the cranks, it's a bit louder. On paved path/road the tires make more noise than the motor - my perspective from the saddle anyway.