Loose Motor on Como 2.0 UPDATE: Cracked Frame (Vados too)

[Uburoibob]

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I’d definitely go with the 3.0 no question about it, except the motors are not the same— it is less powerful:
50 Nm of torque, 420 peak watts, vs. 72 Nm of torque 520 peak watts. I fear I will miss that power on our hills. But maybe that difference is not really noticeable?

That's the difference between the 1.2 and the 1.2E? I haven't been able to find specs like that. All I can find is this:

3.0: MOTOR Specialized 1.2 E, custom Rx Street-tuned motor, 250W nominal
4.0: MOTOR Specialized 1.2, custom Rx Street-tuned motor, 250W nominal

on the 2020 Vado page.

 

[Ebiker01]

500 wh, 250 watts motor ...Incredibly low end specs for a 2020 ebike, and with a Specialized name.

Allready 625 , 720wh batteries will be very common, if down the road you will want to sell it, even with 100-200miles very few people will pay no higher then 1-1.2k. Assuming the frame won’t crack again.

 

[Uburoibob]

500 wh, 250 watts motor ...Incredibly low end specs for a 2020 ebike, and with a Specialized name.

Allready 625 , 720wh batteries will be very common, if down the road you will want to sell it, even with 100-200miles very few people will pay no higher then 1-1.2k. Assuming the frame won’t crack again.

OK, but that's not really what we are discussing here. We already have the bikes. Guaranteed for life. Refunds aren't on the table. What point does your post make to the topic?

 

[Uburoibob]

I'll add that, except for the broken frame, they are the best bikes I rode, and I test rode a bunch. It's not about resale...it's about enjoying the ride and these are great bikes - or will be once they've taken care of the frame (again, guaranteed for life).

 

[CoastChimes]

That's the difference between the 1.2 and the 1.2E? I haven't been able to find specs like that. All I can find is this:

3.0: MOTOR Specialized 1.2 E, custom Rx Street-tuned motor, 250W nominal
4.0: MOTOR Specialized 1.2, custom Rx Street-tuned motor, 250W nominal

on the 2020 Vado page.

Yes, they certainly do not highlight the reduced power of the motor on their selling page! The motor on the Vado 2020 3.0 goes under the name 1.2E and Brose C. If you Google Brose C, it is easier to find information, and confirm that it is less powerful-- the nominal output is identical, but the peak is reduced. The 2020 Como 3.0 is reviewed on this site, and he goes into some detail on the reduced motor:

"Driving the bike is a Brose C mid-drive, however this one is called the Brose CB with the B designating that is is a specific customized setup just for Specialized. This is a street tuned motor with a nominal rating of 250watts and 50nm of torque."

• "When comparing the 3.0 to the higher trim levels, you can feel a difference in either the motor or battery as they both get upgrades and you get to enjoy the same frame, so make sure to test ride and find the one that is right for both your needs and budget"

Since he points out that that you can feel the difference, this is where I get concerned that I will regret the reduced output on our impressive hills. But maybe it is not that noticeable?

 

[Uburoibob]

Living on the prairie, we don’t have impressive hills so I can’t comment on that. I wish you best of luck in coming to a decision.

 

[kcrider]

@CoastChimes Is there a bike shop around close enough to were you could try them out and compare before having to decide?

I've been told that the 1.2E with the 460wh battery has the same range of the 1.2 with the 504wh battery so if not factoring in steep hills, I would also say get the 3.0 with the 1.2E for sure. I say that cause when I bought my 2019 Como 3.0, the only reason I paid the extra $1000 over the 2.0 was for the 28mph. Knowing what I know now, I would have got the 2.0 with the 1.2E, bought the extra 604wh battery with the difference and be planning much longer rides.

Even factoring in steep hills, I think upgrading the cassette to the 10 speed HG500 with that 42 tooth sprocket ($35) and the Deore Shadow Plus derailleur ($65) to match the Vado 4.0 would make the 22Nm torque difference negligible on climbs.

Either way, that's a tough choice! Good luck!

 

[TS25]

That's the difference between the 1.2 and the 1.2E? I haven't been able to find specs like that. All I can find is this:

3.0: MOTOR ... , 250W nominal
4.0: MOTOR ... , 250W nominal

250 watts motor ...Incredibly low end specs

This spec "250W" gives you no information at all!
250W nominal is the legal limit in Europe so (almost) all pedelecs are "250W nominal" and there is none above that.

Peak power is the spec to look for, and peak power is >250W with both of them.

The 1.2E is designed for urban or flat terrain use to give you longer reach so the smaller battery is efficent enough. Power is sufficient for this use too.

If you reduce the max. output of the 1.2 motor by software you'll get the same effect.

 

[jim6b]

That's the difference between the 1.2 and the 1.2E? I haven't been able to find specs like that. All I can find is this:

3.0: MOTOR Specialized 1.2 E, custom Rx Street-tuned motor, 250W nominal
4.0: MOTOR Specialized 1.2, custom Rx Street-tuned motor, 250W nominal

on the 2020 Vado page.

Check this out: https://specializedeuropebvhelp.zen...attachments/360003589119/Motoren_bersicht.JPG

 

[Uburoibob]

Check this out: https://specializedeuropebvhelp.zen...attachments/360003589119/Motoren_bersicht.JPG


View attachment 39861

Thank you for this! It’s a HUGE help!

 

[CoastChimes]

Check this out: https://specializedeuropebvhelp.zen...attachments/360003589119/Motoren_bersicht.JPG


View attachment 39861

Very big help. Thanks! Interesting that the max assistance is 320% for all of them, so I wonder exactly how the Nm plays into the game: that's quite a difference, 50 vs. 85Nm. Is that what is going to be noticeable on big hills? Anyway, thanks for all the input. I am hoping to try a 3.0, and then I will be able to determine how it feels compared to my broken 2.0. If I can't try it out, I'll probably go with the no cost 3.0, and be happy with a new bike.

 

[Perpixel]

Hello! Just joined the forum to add my 2019 Como 3 to the list. Had weird crank noise for a while nothing found until it came loose last week. No word on my warranty yet. Let me tell you I'm extremely upset and I will lose it if the offer me a 2020 como 3.

Bought in May this year and 1600 km only. Light commute to work.

 

[jim6b]

Very big help. Thanks! Interesting that the max assistance is 320% for all of them, so I wonder exactly how the Nm plays into the game: that's quite a difference, 50 vs. 85Nm. Is that what is going to be noticeable on big hills? Anyway, thanks for all the input. I am hoping to try a 3.0, and then I will be able to determine how it feels compared to my broken 2.0. If I can't try it out, I'll probably go with the no cost 3.0, and be happy with a new bike.

I am going to surmise here, so don't rely on this without confirmation. Class 3, (28 mph nominal and 26 actual) requires almost twice, 2X, the power as Class 1 (20 nominal and about 19 actual, i.e. excluding human input). Thus the need for the 70% increase in torque for the Class 3's motor vs. the Class 1's.

[edit: corrected for mistake pointed out by uburo in #75 below]

Recall also that EU regulations require EV motors to be limited to 250 watts which, one would think, would lead to manufacturers being reluctant to boast of their "watts". Therefore, torque is used as a substitute? My guess is "yes".

 

[Uburoibob]

Hello! Just joined the forum to add my 2019 Como 3 to the list. Had weird crank noise for a while nothing found until it came loose last week. No word on my warranty yet. Let me tell you I'm extremely upset and I will lose it if the offer me a 2020 como 3.

Bought in May this year and 1600 km only. Light commute to work.

Sorry to hear that, Perpixel. I hope you get a suitable replacement.

 

[Uburoibob]

I am going to surmise here, so don't rely on this without confirmation. Class 3, (28 mph nominal and 26 actual) requires almost twice, 2X, the power as Class 1 (15.5 nominal and about 14 actual, i.e. excluding human input). Thus the need for the 70% increase in torque for the Class 3's motor vs. the Class 1's.

Recall also that EU regulations require EV motors to be limited to 250 watts which, one would think, would lead to manufacturers being reluctant to boast of their "watts". Therefore, torque is used as a substitute? My guess is "yes".

So, in the USA, where we are getting 20mph nominal and 19 actual, is the bike underpowered?

 

[jim6b]

So, in the USA, where we are getting 20mph nominal and 19 actual, is the bike underpowered?

No, not underpowered.

You should have figured out that if the power MUST be cut off before 20 or 28 mph is reached, then manufacturers will taper the cut off and that will be begin about 2 mph early. If you read the posts in these forums that is exactly what has been almost universally been reported, tapered cutoff.

 

[Uburoibob]

No, not underpowered.

You should have figured out that if the power MUST be cut off before 20 or 28 mph is reached, then manufacturers will taper the cut off and that will be begin about 2 mph early. If you read the posts in these forums that is exactly what has been almost universally been reported, tapered cutoff.

Sorry, i wasnt clear. I meant the difference in the Class 1 specd between 15.5/14 you referenced (which is Euro limit) and 20/19.5. Is 20 pushing class 1?

 

[jim6b]

Sorry, i wasnt clear. I meant the difference in the Class 1 specd between 15.5/14 you referenced (which is Euro limit) and 20/19.5. Is 20 pushing class 1?

Sorry about that, my misunderstanding.

 

[FlatSix911]

Congratulations. I hope they've solved the problem for 2020 bikes. That's the same color I chose for my Como 3.0. So far, so good. 400 miles on the new one so far.

I am not convinced that Specialized has solved the problem... the frame appears to use the mid-drive motor as a structural element.
If the mounting bolts come loose, the frame could experience additional stress that may cause crack propagation and potential failure.
I see no evidence of frame re-design in the 2020 models... if I owned a Specialized I would use Loctite on the bolts and check the frame regularly. YMMV

 

[Perpixel]

My LBS contacted me last night and I will be getting a new bike but I was very confused about what exactly I will be getting. My bike is a 2019 matte black como3 and the replacement would be same year but platinum.... So I'll just assume it's a platinum 2020. I'm glad they will be replacing quickly but the hell if I have to do this every 6 months.

I ride my bike every single day to work in Montreal 20km total. The roads are in poor condition and lots of climbing to do. Now I'm not sure if the Como is designed for that level of work.

This week I have been using my Roubaix elite to work on 23mm tires and it's killing me.