Looking for a replacement for cassette on Rad Rover?

[m@Robertson]

Swap the motor cover for a freehub type one then you can choose whatever you want https://www.greenbikekit.com/bafang...ike-rmg06-motor-cover-with-cassette-base.html

Sunrace make a good steel freewheel type cassette which would serve you well https://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/mfez1 the whole range is here :- https://www.sunrace.com/en/products/freewheel-for-e-bike

Very interesting indeed. But you won't be changing the width of the frame dropouts, and that cassette is a standard width Shimano type that is meant for 9-11 speeds. The bike's rear spacing will have to be narrower... the G060 motors that are for cassettes are meant for 190mm spacing. The freewheels are 175.

On freewheel motors, I use the slit-tool-plus-screwdriver method.

On cassette motors, Before the Bolton tool existed I went a different way. I have a variety of cassette tools. Nothing fits because of the bolts although the Park tool in the pictures can make it over the plug at least.

I reprofiled the bolt and washers with a hand file. Its not as tough to do as you might think although you need to be careful not to overdo it. And use a hi quality hand file. You take off the corners, which are most of the obstruction, and *carefully* shave down the flats just a bit. then you also reduce the diameter of the locking washer.

Since I use a quality adjustable wrench, and I didn't change any of the angles, removal from the bike is unaffected.

Even the Bolton tool doesn't fit every motor. Good old Bafang isn't 100% consistent on their parts. This can be your only solution depending on your motor.

 

[ExPatBrit]

I did it. I got the DNP 11-28 FW and had all kinds of trouble getting the old one off. Bought the DNP tool, sliced it, and tried it in a vice and turning the wheel.. Broke my heavy marine industrial bench vice.. Took it to a few bike shops around Seattle, and they all basically said that because its a RPB nobody wants to touch it. So I took it down the Rad Power and get them to make the swap. It cost me $40 in labor and it was done in a day. Then I ordered the tool from Rad directly, its 'in transit' and itll probably be in transit for a long time. I also put a used set of Shimano MT200 Hyraulic brakes.
Ultimately the difference in the ride -most notricable on the flats- is huge. Math says its 28% better than stock, and it feels like it. Yesterday I spent about 4 hours doing errands all over the city and had more than half my battery capacity left and spent most of the day on PAS 3 and using gear 5 or 6 (which is not the same as the stock FW), but all in, its a great upgrade -which actually makes the bicycle part of my '18 Rad Mini, fuction like a bicycle..

Why Rad puts a 11-34T on a mini is a mystery, you should consider upping the chain ring to 50 or 52 T if there is room. Keep up with traffic.

Bolton e-bikes sells a tool.

https://boltonebikes.com/collection...wheel-removal-tool-made-in-usa-by-bolton-labs

 

[Haystacks]

Very interesting indeed. But you won't be changing the width of the frame dropouts, and that cassette is a standard width Shimano type that is meant for 9-11 speeds. The bike's rear spacing will have to be narrower... the G060 motors that are for cassettes are meant for 190mm spacing. The freewheels are 175.

On freewheel motors, I use the slit-tool-plus-screwdriver method.

On cassette motors, Before the Bolton tool existed I went a different way. I have a variety of cassette tools. Nothing fits because of the bolts although the Park tool in the pictures can make it over the plug at least.

I reprofiled the bolt and washers with a hand file. Its not as tough to do as you might think although you need to be careful not to overdo it. And use a hi quality hand file. You take off the corners, which are most of the obstruction, and *carefully* shave down the flats just a bit. then you also reduce the diameter of the locking washer.

Since I use a quality adjustable wrench, and I didn't change any of the angles, removal from the bike is unaffected.

Even the Bolton tool doesn't fit every motor. Good old Bafang isn't 100% consistent on their parts. This can be your only solution depending on your motor.

View attachment 86008View attachment 86009View attachment 86010View attachment 86011

I didn't elucidate enough, it was two solutions. 1 swap casing and then you can use any HG hub or 2 alternate freewheel cassette.

I changed the hub casing on mine, worked a treat, put my spare box 2 prime 9 drivetrain on it and away it went, the problem now is finding a decent fat frame with drop outs rather than thru axle, the one i donor'd the motor to is too small (as in frame size for me), waiting for a replacement controller to give it more vavavoom too, great little motors for cruising around, that lithium grease gotta go though, hope you don't have it, my original was dry like dried up toothpaste.

 

[irq506]

Why Rad puts a 11-34T on a mini is a mystery, you should consider upping the chain ring to 50 or 52 T if there is room. Keep up with traffic.

Bolton e-bikes sells a tool.

https://boltonebikes.com/collections/tools/products/bafang-750-watt-freewheel-removal-tool-made-in-usa-by-bolton

Why Rad puts a 11-34T on a mini is a mystery, you should consider upping the chain ring to 50 or 52 T if there is room. Keep up with traffic.

Bolton e-bikes sells a tool.

https://boltonebikes.com/collection...wheel-removal-tool-made-in-usa-by-bolton-labs

Thats a definite NO on the wholly over priced tool. I'm ok with innovation and smart business, but I dont like being rifled. As an inventor, that has been through the process of getting from concept to reality- theres no justification for $50.
Also, 2018 Rad Mini did not come with an 11-34 FW, it came with a Shimano 14-28. I'll upgrade the chainring to 53T in a few weeks when Ive gotten used to the new FW.

 

[ExPatBrit]

Agree on the tool price, originally it was $38 which was also s bit much. I think this was harder and $$ to manufacture in the US than he initially thought it would be . Generally Kyle’s products are good , had the controller upgrade and yhat is great value.

Didn’t know the high gear was a 14T on the 2018 , your upgrade should improve things. I like to have a cruiser gear at 25mph where I can still effectively pedal.

 

[AHicks]

A bunch of us with '17 models received 14t gears and realized that the 11 tooth were the answers to that issue. I was thinking it was the following year ('18) that RAD agreed and started supplying them OEM.

 

[Geosp8l]

Swap the motor cover for a freehub type one then you can choose whatever you want https://www.greenbikekit.com/bafang...ike-rmg06-motor-cover-with-cassette-base.html

Sunrace make a good steel freewheel type cassette which would serve you well https://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/mfez1 the whole range is here :- https://www.sunrace.com/en/products/freewheel-for-e-bike

This link is for Bafang motor. This looks like a great route to go. Is the same route possible for the Shengyi motor that Rad now uses? I have a new Rad City 4 and am looking for LOWER gears and a smoother shifting experience. I would ultimately like to swap the 11-34 7sp freewheel, with a 11-40 or even 11-42, 10 speed set-up. I'm pretty sure this is the motor I have, the Screw Freewheel 6-7sp (http://www.syimotor.com/productDe_5.html). I noticed on the schematic that the gear spacing, 39 vs. 41, is different, but the overall axel length is the same for both.

I am not too technical, but know a lot about bikes in general. It seems eBikes have changed everything I thought I knew about bikes, lol... I am really liking the eBike experience and this Rad City seems powerful and smooth, and gives me the upright riding position I was looking for. I think a smoother shifting experience will make this even better! I have already swapped out the forks for some off-road, single track shocks, the Epixon. Thanks in advance...

 

[ExPatBrit]

This link is for Bafang motor. This looks like a great route to go. Is the same route possible for the Shengyi motor that Rad now uses? I have a new Rad City 4 and am looking for LOWER gears and a smoother shifting experience. I would ultimately like to swap the 11-34 7sp freewheel, with a 11-40 or even 11-42, 10 speed set-up. I'm pretty sure this is the motor I have, the Screw Freewheel 6-7sp (http://www.syimotor.com/productDe_5.html). I noticed on the schematic that the gear spacing, 39 vs. 41, is different, but the overall axel length is the same for both.

I am not too technical, but know a lot about bikes in general. It seems eBikes have changed everything I thought I knew about bikes, lol... I am really liking the eBike experience and this Rad City seems powerful and smooth, and gives me the upright riding position I was looking for. I think a smoother shifting experience will make this even better! I have already swapped out the forks for some off-road, single track shocks, the Epixon. Thanks in advance...

The city is the unusual cofiguration and has always had the DD Shengyi Motor, every new Rad model introduced recently has a Bafang geared hub. Geared hubs are often better for climbing. Assume at some point the city will switch to Bafang if they can engineer it. Basically a Rad Mission rear wheel with a derailleur.

Instead of messing with the freewheel, you might consider the Bolton Controller upgrade (about $220) to get more climbing power. I had one on my Rover and my riding buddy's City really benefited from it, and you won't have to deal the grief with removing the frewheel. 90 minutes easy work.

You get a better color display and can override the 20 mph speed limiter. You don't have to use all the power but it sure is useful at times.

 

[Geosp8l]

The city is the unusual cofiguration and has always had the DD Shengyi Motor, every new Rad model introduced recently has a Bafang geared hub. Geared hubs are often better for climbing. Assume at some point the city will switch to Bafang if they can engineer it. Basically a Rad Mission rear wheel with a derailleur.

Instead of messing with the freewheel, you might consider the Bolton Controller upgrade (about $220) to get more climbing power. I had one on my Rover and my riding buddy's City really benefited from it, and you won't have to deal the grief with removing the frewheel. 90 minutes easy work.

You get a better color display and can override the 20 mph speed limiter. You don't have to use all the power but it sure is useful at times.

Hey, thanks... I first bought the RR5 fat bike (not a good fit for me) it did not have a geared hub, did it? It had the same 7 sp set up as the City, but a different motor. Anyways, I've moved on from that bike to the City, maybe not the best choice I'm beginning to think.

Not really power I'm looking for...? It seems powerful enough, but each shift is a big change in cadence and throws off riding rhythm. Coming from a standard mtn bike with lots of gears and smooth shifting between gears, this feels rough. I am a rider, the bike is not riding me, and riding efficiency is still engrained in my soul. I never use the throttle, either - lol...

I already changed the top speed to 40 kph using the stock display, plenty of speed for me at 24.7 mph. and most bike paths and trails have a implied or enforceable speed limit anyways. Don't get me started on the speed issue...

It seems to me, although I have no technical backing, that pushing harder on the pedals, using a slower cadence, is less efficient than a faster cadence that matches the incline, just like on a standard bike? I have added clip pedals for more efficient pedaling cadence. Is pedal cadence a factor for motor and climbing efficiency? Pedal efficiency is certainly a big deal on a conventional bike, so why not on an eBike? When I ride with folks that have a 'real' mtn bike, like the Vado, they are spinning in a low gear and climbing like crazy (the mid-drive makes the difference?), just as they would on a conventional bike.

Should I give up on this notion and get another bike? My original plan to start out less expensive and upgrading doesn't seem to be working out with this bike... :-(

 

[ExPatBrit]

Hey, thanks... I first bought the RR5 fat bike (not a good fit for me) it did not have a geared hub, did it? It had the same 7 sp set up as the City, but a different motor. Anyways, I've moved on from that bike to the City, maybe not the best choice I'm beginning to think.

Not really power I'm looking for...? It seems powerful enough, but each shift is a big change in cadence and throws off riding rhythm. Coming from a standard mtn bike with lots of gears and smooth shifting between gears, this feels rough. I am a rider, the bike is not riding me, and riding efficiency is still engrained in my soul. I never use the throttle, either - lol...

I already changed the top speed to 40 kph using the stock display, plenty of speed for me at 24.7 mph. and most bike paths and trails have a implied or enforceable speed limit anyways. Don't get me started on the speed issue...

It seems to me, although I have no technical backing, that pushing harder on the pedals, using a slower cadence, is less efficient than a faster cadence that matches the incline, just like on a standard bike? I have added clip pedals for more efficient pedaling cadence. Is pedal cadence a factor for motor and climbing efficiency? Pedal efficiency is certainly a big deal on a conventional bike, so why not on an eBike? When I ride with folks that have a 'real' mtn bike, like the Vado, they are spinning in a low gear and climbing like crazy (the mid-drive makes the difference?), just as they would on a conventional bike.

Should I give up on this notion and get another bike? My original plan to start out less expensive and upgrading doesn't seem to be working out with this bike... :-(

Rad Rover have always had geared hubs. DD have their proponents and some advantages (they can be faster when you get up to speed once the motor is at the "sweet spot"). but like front hub drive bikes I don't see many new models with that configuration.

The original Runners were Shengyi DD hubs but they changed to Bafang a couple years ago.

The cadence sensor (or PAS sensor) just counts magnetic pulses from the crank sensor. So you can spin the pedals without effort and achieve the same effect on the motor. More expensive bikes have torque sensors that somewhat match your pedal effort, so coast the pedals and nothing happens, more like an analogue bike.

Some bikes have both cadence and torque sensors, it's all about creating the natural feel of an analogue bike.

 

[Geosp8l]

I don't think so.

When the Runner came out in 2019, it had gear driven hub.

https://electricbikereview.com/rad-power-bikes/radrunner/[/URL

http://

 

[ExPatBrit]

I don't think so.

When the Runner came out in 2019, it had gear driven hub.

Rad Power Bikes RadRunner Review | ElectricBikeReview.com

Price: $1299.00 | Model Year: 2019 | An extremely versatile and affordable mid-fat tire bike, unique 20

electricbikereview.com

Yes it appears from the pics that the Rad Wagon 4 switched from the Shengyi to the Bafang.

Point is the same though, Rad power is moving to geared motor hub-drive

 

[Geosp8l]

Sorry by RR, I meant Rad Rover, not Runner. The Rover 5 had the same 7sp set up as my current City and I didn't notice any 'geared' hub that I could change gears with...?

But that's not the information I'm looking for. I am over the Rover, no good for my use case. A big behemoth, impossible to keep a line on challenging terrain, forget about stop/start on a hill, or climbing any sustained hill. The rebound on the front is excessive and caused me to crash once and nearly crash on other occasions. Fine for slow, easy off-roading, around town, handles loads well, and is quite comfortable. Like a moving exercise bike - lol...

 

[Geosp8l]

Ah, so a little more education for me...

Geared Hub Motors Vs Gearless Hub Motors

www.ebikeschool.com

Nothing to do with gears, i.e. shifting. Just the mechanism for how the motor spins... After reading this, I am pretty sure I want to stick with direct drive.

 

[ExPatBrit]

Sorry by RR, I meant Rad Rover, not Runner. The Rover 5 had the same 7sp set up as my current City and I didn't notice any 'geared' hub that I could change gears with...?

But that's not the information I'm looking for. I am over the Rover, no good for my use case. A big behemoth, impossible to keep a line on challenging terrain, forget about stop/start on a hill, or climbing any sustained hill. The rebound on the front is excessive and caused me to crash once and nearly crash on other occasions. Fine for slow, easy off-roading, around town, handles loads well, and is quite comfortable. Like a moving exercise bike - lol...

Geared hub , Motor spins 5X faster than a DD, so more torque 80nM compared to 40nM on the city . No operator input . Its torque that helps you move away from a stop.

Fat bikes are not for everyone, I used small tires on my Rover made it easier to ride.

 

[ExPatBrit]

We're not talking about Rad Wagon 4 though?

More about the manufacturers moving away from DD hub motors . Bafang has good market penetration on their geared hub drives, they are very reliable now.

I haven't seen a new DD drive bike announcement for a few years now.

 

[ExPatBrit]

Ah, so a little more education for me...

Geared Hub Motors Vs Gearless Hub Motors

www.ebikeschool.com

Nothing to do with gears, i.e. shifting. Just the mechanism for how the motor spins... After reading this, I am pretty sure I want to stick with direct drive.

That article is nearly 5 years old, the hub-drives were a bit iffy in the beginning. That DD hub in the picture is huge. The geared hub tech has matured, power is up significantly and they are reliable and the prices are good.

 

[pawtoki]

So here are 3 teeth from third gear. Would "you" replace it? Other gears do have some damage

 

[AHicks]

Thanks Timpo! I didn't know that either, but can surely understand why that gear might shift better once the purpose of that short gear tooth is explained.

 

[Crane-o]

Thanks Timpo! I didn't know that either, but can surely understand why that gear might shift better once the purpose of that short gear tooth is explained.

Yep that’s not worn, that’s how it should be