Law and Order and Cycling

[mschwett]

Ah....so a red light is to be treated as a stop sign. Good to know, not that anyone here sticks to the rules.
I know it was brought in in Vancouver a few years ago but I'm not sure if it extends any further out than Vancouver proper. I had never given it any thought until now. CN

the new idaho yield law that california has (or will have whenever the governor signs it) actually wouldn't apply to a right-turn-on-red, even though in theory that's treated like a right-turn-on-stop-sign.

i actually got a little more irritated at this guy after a period of time when i read a bunch of posts on the bay area biking forum on reddit and bikeforums about his giving similar lectures to dozens of cyclists over the years, pulling them over on his motorcycle for anything from not stopping at a right-on-red to speeding to having headphones in or something. each time his diatribe included the notion that most people breaking the law in sausalito are from san francisco because it's a lawless, terrible place!

 

[Allan47.7339]

the new idaho yield law that california has (or will have whenever the governor signs it) actually wouldn't apply to a right-turn-on-red, even though in theory that's treated like a right-turn-on-stop-sign.

i actually got a little more irritated at this guy after a period of time when i read a bunch of posts on the bay area biking forum on reddit and bikeforums about his giving similar lectures to dozens of cyclists over the years, pulling them over on his motorcycle for anything from not stopping at a right-on-red to speeding to having headphones in or something. each time his diatribe included the notion that most people breaking the law in sausalito are from san francisco because it's a lawless, terrible place!

Unfortunately I see your governor vetoed the new law using some safety gibberish provided by the pro-car road building lobby. I assume it's partly becuase CA cars don't usually stop at stop signs and assume they have the right of way. We just have the stop sign portion of the Idaho stop and it's been great but cars usually nearly stop at signs here. I sarcastically say we are doing the same thing cars routinely do except it's legal for bikes.

 

[dodgeman]

I agree, better to listen and nod your head than get hauled in. I would say what you did is technically wrong. He should have just said please don’t do that, I’m giving you a verbal warning. 2 minutes would have been enough. I do a lot of riding on rural roads around my house, pretty low traffic and treat a stop sign like a yield sign. In town I will stop at red lights and wait for green. Stop signs I slow down but not enough to put my feet down unless there is other traffic, then I completely stop. I wonder if this officer is actually suppose to be the “bike enforcement officer” or if he has made it his personal crusade. I suspect the later.

 

[mschwett]

Unfortunately I see your governor vetoed the new law using some safety gibberish provided by the pro-car road building lobby. I assume it's partly becuase CA cars don't usually stop at stop signs and assume they have the right of way. We just have the stop sign portion of the Idaho stop and it's been great but cars usually nearly stop at signs here. I sarcastically say we are doing the same thing cars routinely do except it's legal for bikes.

yeah. MAJOR bummer.

 

[mschwett]

… I wonder if this officer is actually suppose to be the “bike enforcement officer” or if he has made it his personal crusade. I suspect the later.

allegedly he is actually assigned to patrol cyclists, “because the tax paying citizens of this town don’t feel safe and that’s not a good feeling.”

i wonder how many pedestrians were injured by cyclists prior to this assignment/policy.

 

[pawtoki]

I would have said " write me a ticket or I am leaving."

that would get you a ticket here in FL. As well as a long delay while he ran your credentials. Be nice outthere, it works wonders.

 

[Roamers]

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Of course there are lots of threads and opinions here about the behavior of cyclists, motorists, pedestrians, etc.
I had an interesting experience today which I honestly don't know what to think about.
I was riding northbound through Sausalito, in a bike lane, going approx 20. No assist, motor fully turned off. I had a red in front of me that had just turned red, but the road to the right was just the entry to a parking lot, essentially. Honestly I didn't want to unclip so I slowed, turn right, went about 100' up the parking lot entry road, looked over my shoulder, made a u-turn, and then a right back onto the main road.

About 15 seconds later, a motorcycle officer pulled in front of me and signaled me over.

He asked if I knew why I was there, I said I wasn't sure but maybe he didn't like the u-turn? He said no, the u-turn was fine - you went far enough up the road - but you ran two red lights. He then asked where I was from (San Francisco) at which point he gave me a very long lecture about law and order. The basic theme was: in this town, we care about law and order and safety unlike in the nasty big city where the cops have too much to do and don't enforce basic laws. His entire responsibility is pulling over cyclists, because "the people of this town don't feel safe on the roads they built with their taxpayer dollars because of cyclists that don't obey the law." I listened, discussed with him briefly, and about 15 minutes later (it was a long lecture!) went along my way. He didn't cite me for anything.

So, yes, in California a bike must come to a stop before a right turn on red. I don't believe we have any version of the idaho yield. But I can't imagine a more victimless crime here. It wasn't even a full intersection, and there were zero cars coming out of the parking lot entry... and there was a bike lane on the main road so it's not like I turned out into traffic.

What does everyone think? Horrible behavior on my part to turn on red at 10mph (if that!) into and out of a parking lot access road? I mean, laws are laws. I get it. Slippery slope. But I suppose I've always believed that things like jaywalking, speeding, and incomplete stops when there are literally no vehicles nearby to be impacted are acceptable compromises between the law and expediency.

I see the bike laws in my sate (Virginia) as a fair trade. I may ride on all of the roads except highways, but I must follow all motor vehicle tradffic laws as though I were in a motor vehicle. Fair enough.

I do take some many unlawful liberties at intersections and when crossing the road.

 

[Rexlion]

I appreciate folks who resurrected this thread, because I learned something valuable about the law in my state (OK). As of last year, we have that law also! I am soooo going to stop feeling guilty about running stop signs!