Just ordered a Hydra power questions

[Foxhound68]

Hey there I just ordered a Hydra in midnight blue with the archon x1 after getting hit by a drunk driver 2 weeks ago and totalling my other bike and requiring arm surgery . My bike had a m620 bafang but no controller on it. The controller seems amazing but I'm a bit wary of all that power.any suggestions for taming the power or tuning it down some ? Also is there any way to make the throttle give more power the further you push it down like a car pedal or is it just like a on off switch ?

 

[TomD]

By default throttle is restricted to 750W and it blends in so you won't have to worry about it unless you order it without restriction.

 

[scrambler]

I also remember reading that now by default bike are delivered as class3 so with limited power, and you have to change the programming to unleash more.
But you should confirm that with WW

 

[Deacon Blues]

I also remember reading that now by default bike are delivered as class3 so with limited power, and you have to change the programming to unleash more.
But you should confirm that with WW

Did this just change? I received my Hydra in July and it came with 100% power.

 

[Foxhound68]

It does say class 3 programmable but I don't see where it says set at 750w

 

[LLL]

Throttle is set to 90nm according to their specs. Not sure if that translates to your 750w comments since I am pretty sure a 750w tune can output more than 90nm, but it is probably there so you don't rip the cassette teeth on launch since the throttle button or twist style is essentially an on/off button for most riders. It does not have the good granular control of a car or MC throttle (it does have some...), so I do not even bother trying. 90nm is enough to do a wheelie in 1st gear, so don't sweat the small stuff. The higher power levels will kick in once you are pedaling, regardless of a 750w or 1000w + tune.

 

[Foxhound68]

Throttle is set to 90nm according to their specs. Not sure if that translates to your 750w comments since I am pretty sure a 750w tune can output more than 90nm, but it is probably there so you don't rip the cassette teeth on launch since the throttle button or twist style is essentially an on/off button for most riders. It does not have the good granular control of a car or MC throttle (it does have some...), so I do not even bother trying. 90nm is enough to do a wheelie in 1st gear, so don't sweat the small stuff. The higher power levels will kick in once you are pedaling, regardless of a 750w or 1000w + tune.

I'd rather not be kicking wheelies lol

 

[LLL]

Then keep it in 2nd or 3rd from a stop

 

[Foxhound68]

Then keep it in 2nd or 3rd from a stop

I tend to start out in 1st or 2nd , plan on adding a shift sensor to the bike aswell

 

[LLL]

Shift Sensors are hit and miss, but the brake sensors are key to keep control of the bike since it is very jerky on power delivery. It is still best to stop pedaling and wait for the power from the motor to cut out before you shift. Most Bafang m620 based motors have over-run issues with the programming (does not immediately cut off after you stop pedaling or pressing the button), and unless it is a UART based motor or you have the ability to change the config on the upgraded controller, you are stuck with it. I have had some bad noises coming off the cassette relying on the sensors, so have adjusted my shifting to ensure no power is engaged before I do it.

So far, I have over 2k miles on the original chain and cassette. The chain measures like new (using the Park Tool), and the cassette still looks like new. I am, however, very diligent on cleaning my chain (alcohol and a rag) after every ride since I like to do creek crossings and trail riding. I re-lube every 2-300 miles with wet lube (most of my conditions, but collects dirt). The roads are just there to get me to/back from my fun. If you don't keep your chain clean, it will wear out much faster along with your cassette.

 

[Foxhound68]

Shift Sensors are hit and miss, but the brake sensors are key to keep control of the bike since it is very jerky on power delivery. It is still best to stop pedaling and wait for the power from the motor to cut out before you shift. Most Bafang m620 based motors have over-run issues with the programming (does not immediately cut off after you stop pedaling or pressing the button), and unless it is a UART based motor or you have the ability to change the config on the upgraded controller, you are stuck with it. I have had some bad noises coming off the cassette relying on the sensors, so have adjusted my shifting to ensure no power is engaged before I do it.

So far, I have over 2k miles on the original chain and cassette. The chain measures like new (using the Park Tool), and the cassette still looks like new. I am, however, very diligent on cleaning my chain after every ride since I like to do creek crossings and trail riding. The roads are just there to get me to/back from my fun. If you don't keep your chain clean, it will wear out much faster along with your cassette.

Yeah the shift sensor will just be a fail safe , I had brake cutoffs on my old bike and had them upgrade my Hydra to have them aswell so I do know not to shift while under load I just like the idea of having an extra fail safe

 

[TomD]

Throttle is set to 90nm according to their specs. Not sure if that translates to your 750w comments since I am pretty sure a 750w tune can output more than 90nm

My throttle is restricted to 750W continuous. To get more assist I can pedal but otherwise the display shows just under 750W continuous being delivered. No idea if torque is actually capped. Perhaps that's how it's feathered in.

 

[Foxhound68]

My throttle is restricted to 750W continuous. To get more assist I can pedal but otherwise the display shows just under 750W continuous being delivered. No idea if torque is actually capped. Perhaps that's how it's feathered in.

Is this with the archon controller ?

 

[TomD]

Yes , stock Bafang controller behaved like bat out of hell. Much prefer the restricted throttle.

 

[Foxhound68]

Yes , stock Bafang controller behaved like bat out of hell. Much prefer the restricted throttle.

Mine has the x1 so I hear it's much more controlled

 

[TomD]

That's just throttle on the X1 if restricted. You can have them derestrict but will affect warranty. Oodles more power if you actually pedal and smooth delivery unlike the stock controller.

 

[LLL]

750w Bafang motors should be capable of at least 120nm, so I suspect they are limiting amperage for a smoother ramp up rate on the button up to 90nm max. 90nm is also what the stock Bafang m620 controller on button is set for, but the ramp up rate is much more abrupt. The M620 will also give you up to 160nm max on default settings, but with your controller you might be getting more.

 

[Foxhound68]

So you guys think I shouldn't worry about the difference between this m620 +x1 vs stock m620 in power difference ?

 

[LLL]

you will get a little more juice off of the X1 along with a better tune over stock, but worth the extra cost I am not so sure. IMO unless you have a UART motor it is all splitting hairs. Get what makes you happy and learn to live with it

Many of us who got the CANBUS M620 have invested in a UART version and sell the CANBUS version for a total extra cost of about $500 ($1000 new kit minus selling the old one). Because the X-1 is tied to your motor and you cannot reprogram it yourself, I consider it just as locked out as the CANBUS and not really worth my time/effort unless I go above the 1500w/160nm range. I have no need to do that, that is what real motorcycles are for.

If they sell you a bike with a UART motor (non-X-1) then I would say get the stock motor and save your money. There are plenty of ways to tune a UART motor to fit your needs. If you have no plans to go higher wattage/nm than default, then the UART + custom tuning you can do yourself is about the same as the X-1, probably even better unless you really like the X-1 tunes. It all comes down to how much you want to fiddle with things.... I personally like to tinker.

Archon X1 Controller

Archon X1 Introducing a breakthrough in mid-drive motor technology. Watt Wagons launches the Archon X1 controller for the Bafang Ultra. Developed in Germany, the Archon X1 pushes the Bafang Ultra to a world beating performance standard. Upgrade Today! 2 Year WarrantyOn the controller only Up to...

wattwagons.com

 

[Foxhound68]

you will get a little more juice off of the X1 along with a better tune over stock, but worth the extra cost I am not so sure. IMO unless you have a UART motor it is all splitting hairs. Get what makes you happy and learn to live with it

Many of us who got the CANBUS M620 have invested in a UART version and sell the CANBUS version for a total extra cost of about $500 ($1000 new kit minus selling the old one). Because the X-1 is tied to your motor and you cannot reprogram it yourself, I consider it just as locked out as the CANBUS and not really worth my time/effort unless I go above the 1500w/160nm range. I have no need to do that, that is what real motorcycles are for.

If they sell you a bike with a UART motor (non-X-1) then I would say get the stock motor and save your money. There are plenty of ways to tune a UART motor to fit your needs. If you have no plans to go higher wattage/nm than default, then the UART + custom tuning you can do yourself is about the same as the X-1, probably even better unless you really like the X-1 tunes. It all comes down to how much you want to fiddle with things.... I personally like to tinker.

Archon X1 Controller

Archon X1 Introducing a breakthrough in mid-drive motor technology. Watt Wagons launches the Archon X1 controller for the Bafang Ultra. Developed in Germany, the Archon X1 pushes the Bafang Ultra to a world beating performance standard. Upgrade Today! 2 Year WarrantyOn the controller only Up to...

wattwagons.com

The bike was end of season sale 1k off so I had no choice on motor mainly wanted a m620 and better parts then the voltbike yukoncore I had that got hit by a drunk driver