Just Finished Up My X1 Ultra Installation

[pushkar]

I do not understand that. To me level 1 and 2 never get much over 750 watt draw. So why would it be drawing so much more juice? Now if in level 5 and trying to accelerate up hill as much as possible it would make sense

Hmm.. let me see if I can help tease out the wattage part.

If a rider is trying to maintain same speed (say 25MPH)
- using 2300W, riders will be able to maintain 25MPH at a lower cadence (~ 60 rpm)
- using 750W, riders will be able to maintain 25MPH at a higher cadence. (~ 75 rpm)
So the 2300W motor will use more energy because it provides more assist at all cadence levels.

If a rider is trying to maintain the same cadence (say 70rpm)
- using 2300W, riders will be able to maintain higher speed (say 30 mph)
- using 750W, riders will be able to maintain lower speed (around 23/24mph)
So the 2300W motor will use more energy because it provides more assist at the same cadence level, and rider is getting higher speed.


So the way to get around this is to have the 2 profiles - Eco mode tuned to 750W, and sport mode tuned to 2300W. This way you are guaranteed lower power consumption.


There is a scenario though where a 750W motor at assist level Eco 3 or Eco 4 , is somewhat comparable to 2300W Eco 1 or Eco 2. So you will get close enough efficiency in a limited scenario.


Let me know if this helps.

 

[Zachdds]

That does help, I was trying to figure out how if you were inputting the same power and going the same speed the motor was using more battery. That the 2300 watt motor was less efficient if used at a 750w level or lower.

I assume level 1 and 2 probably don’t go too out much over that. So if running the 2300w motor in the lower levels (under 750w) they would have the same efficiency.

 

[reed scott]

I don't even pretend to understand this. All I know is I have the 1000 watt version and feel like only Evil Kinevil type folks could even scratch the surface of needing 2300 watts. If I was Pushkar I'd make them all sign an ironclad waiver of responsibility and undeniable acceptance of all risks.

 

[pushkar]

Umm.. brb.. updating T&C,

 

[onlineaddy]

So the way to get around this is to have the 2 profiles - Eco mode tuned to 750W, and sport mode tuned to 2300W. This way you are guaranteed lower power consumption.

The dual profiles give us the best of both worlds. Yay!

 

[Caradura]

Loving this thread, as an Evil Knievel type!

 

[reed scott]

Loving this thread, as an Evil Knievel type!

OH, don't get me wrong. I think you wild men are great. I'm just an old wuss.

When you start to realize you pretty much have one foot in the grave you begin to get real careful how you deal with banana peels. And 30 mph on a bicycle is pushing it.

 

[TomD]

Congrats! Once you go X1 from watt wacc you'll never go back.

 

[JCofMN]

Hmm.. let me see if I can help tease out the wattage part.

If a rider is trying to maintain same speed (say 25MPH)
- using 2300W, riders will be able to maintain 25MPH at a lower cadence (~ 60 rpm)
- using 750W, riders will be able to maintain 25MPH at a higher cadence. (~ 75 rpm)
So the 2300W motor will use more energy because it provides more assist at all cadence levels.

If a rider is trying to maintain the same cadence (say 70rpm)
- using 2300W, riders will be able to maintain higher speed (say 30 mph)
- using 750W, riders will be able to maintain lower speed (around 23/24mph)
So the 2300W motor will use more energy because it provides more assist at the same cadence level, and rider is getting higher speed.


So the way to get around this is to have the 2 profiles - Eco mode tuned to 750W, and sport mode tuned to 2300W. This way you are guaranteed lower power consumption.


There is a scenario though where a 750W motor at assist level Eco 3 or Eco 4 , is somewhat comparable to 2300W Eco 1 or Eco 2. So you will get close enough efficiency in a limited scenario.


Let me know if this helps.

Question about the different power rating specs of the Archon controllers. My assumption is that the higher power rated ones actually either use higher power rated MOSFETs or more of them in tandem, i.e., that the various models have different hardware componentry and hence the tiered pricing ladder. Correct? Do you attribute the apparent efficiency improvement over the stock controller primarily to higher frequency/more accurate rotor shaft position sensing or what?

 

[pushkar]

Question about the different power rating specs of the Archon controllers. My assumption is that the higher power rated ones actually either use higher power rated MOSFETs or more of them in tandem, i.e., that the various models have different hardware componentry and hence the tiered pricing ladder. Correct? Do you attribute the apparent efficiency improvement over the stock controller primarily to higher frequency/more accurate rotor shaft position sensing or what?

1. It is the same motor for all configs.

2. We have a tiered pricing ($100 more ) to cover for excessive wear and tear due to higher wattage during the warranty period.

3. Efficiency has multiple facets - FOC, higher sampling rate for all sensors, better thermal management, higher clock frequency, more accurate rotor positioning, better component layout to minimize interference.... there's a LOT behind the scenes. However, broadly speaking the bulk of the improvements come from switching from on/off squarewave stye to sine wave style.

4. With higher power / wattage, thermal dissipation is a real problem. Regardless of who makes that board (see ASI BAC as an example of a higher wattage board) , that overwhelmingly influences selection and layout of the components.

 

[biruja]

@Reed, congratulations on your X1-AM1000. I had to say no to Kyle for the same bike in order to justify buying the Hydra. I was worried that I couldn't resell the Bolton AM1000 for anywhere close to what I paid for it. I'm going to start a new thread about gearing.

 

[reed scott]

@Reed, congratulations on your X1-AM1000. I had to say no to Kyle for the same bike in order to justify buying the Hydra. I was worried that I couldn't resell the Bolton AM1000 for anywhere close to what I paid for it. I'm going to start a new thread about gearing.

Thanks biruja. At this point I have come to believe that one needs at least two ebikes. They are fiddly things. Removing and replacing a motor along with some other fiddling on the bike it comes clear to me that it's always something with these things. I finally got my trailer hooked up and even that took more fiddling than anticipated. Then there was the dropper seat I didn't like and having to order a shim so that my Kinekt post would fit and now I need a better seat and have no idea which way to go and on and on. I could list more but only a noob like myself doesn't know this is just the way it is.

I think I'll go ride it.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Thanks biruja. At this point I have come to believe that one needs at least two ebikes. They are fiddly things. Removing and replacing a motor along with some other fiddling on the bike it comes clear to me that it's always something with these things. I finally got my trailer hooked up and even that took more fiddling than anticipated. Then there was the dropper seat I didn't like and having to order a shim so that my Kinekt post would fit and now I need a better seat and have no idea which way to go and on and on. I could list more but only a noob like myself doesn't know this is just the way it is.

I think I'll go ride it.

One can never have too many ebikes

 

[reed scott]

Back. Lovin this bike ! There is nothing like the exhilaration of powering up a steep rocky slope gaining speed all the way up. In ECO mode. For the pure ones: I WAS peddling. And pretty vigorously at that. I was just going 4 times as fast as my legs alone could manage. Then there's the nearly equally wonderful feeling of riding through crap that might have made you get off and walk with a normal bike. And literally using the power to conquer. Dominate ! Being 70 and asthmatic I haven't had that feeling since I sold my last dirt bike 12 years ago. I had so much fun I nearly had an asthma attack. I'll have to make sure to pack my inhaler on the bike. Ecstatic exhilaration brings on attacks. It's weird I know. Of all the things to suck at. Breathing.

 

[TomD]

Sounds like you have started to appreciate the difference from the stock controller? For me riding just feels more natural with the motor more an extension of the bike, especially when going up hill as the assist is smooth and doesn't fade in and out.

 

[reed scott]

Sounds like you have started to appreciate the difference from the stock controller? For me riding just feels more natural with the motor more an extension of the bike, especially when going up hill as the assist is smooth and doesn't fade in and out. Power really wasn't

Yep.

 

[reed scott]

Presently I don't have throttle. Wire connection probably came loose being stuffed into that small compartment in the motor. And I don't even miss it. Haven't bothered to fix it and it's probably a 10 minute job. The PAS and torque sensing is so good ... who needs a throttle? (don't tell Stefan) %^0

 

[greeno]

Hey RS I don't think there is a connection up inside the motor compartment for the throttle it should be at your handlebar area on the main cable if you have the ULTRA.
Only thing in motor area is:
1. Pos and Neg connection from motor to battery.
2.Sensor connector I think for battery monitoring?
3. Main harness cable going to cockpit area (handlebars) for display, throttle, and (2) brake cut-offs.
4. Rear Cadence sensor connection going to rear wheel.
5. Shift sensor connector. Not using this on mine as I have the shift sensor up front and use one of the brake cut-off plugs.
6. Front +/- light.
7. Rear +/- light.

 

[reed scott]

Hey RS I don't think there is a connection up inside the motor compartment for the throttle it should be at your handlebar area on the main cable if you have the ULTRA.
Only thing in motor area is:
1. Pos and Neg connection from motor to battery.
2.Sensor connector I think for battery monitoring?
3. Main harness cable going to cockpit area (handlebars) for display, throttle, and (2) brake cut-offs.
4. Rear Cadence sensor connection going to rear wheel.
5. Shift sensor connector. Not using this on mine as I have the shift sensor up front and use one of the brake cut-off plugs.
6. Front +/- light.
7. Rear +/- light.

Thanks greeno. I may have improperly connected the four plugs of the main cable. I'll try and figure it out. There are the two yellow ones that look exactly the same. Could I have crossed them up?

EDIT: Figured out that the two identical yellow plugs are the brake sensors and doesn't matter which goes to which wire. There really is no wrong way to plug in those four connectors as they are configured individually different.

 

[reed scott]

Got My Throttle back. Just by messing around really. Decided to install the new throttle that came with the Archon X1 as previously I had just left the original identical throttle on the bike and plugged it into the new main cable. Low and behold. Throttle works fine. For all I know just the act of unplugging and plugging back in might have done the trick. Regardless ... I now have throttle again.

EDIT: Which allowed me to cross a creek which runs between houses here without getting my feet totally wet. Just damp. And I found out my back fender is way too short to the rear. Thanks Kyle. (nobody's perfect though)

Still have no speedometer however. Power use on the display graph works but speedometer does not. I have no freekin idea. Any help much appreciated.