Is MSRP/MAP holding back ebike sales growth?
- Thread starter stevenast
- Start date
Marty
Member
George
This isn't always about bad knees and bad hips, it should be because it's fun. I guess that's an end of the market that isn't being addressed.
I think the typical argument to buy an ebike is as you described, and that's incorrectly addressing the product.
harrypottar
New Member
Interesting thread, how many people have actually negotiated a better deal?
If it's not breaking forum rules be nice to start a new thread where you could post MSRP and what you actually paid for your bike, plus any factors, time of year etc.
Harry
If it's not breaking forum rules be nice to start a new thread where you could post MSRP and what you actually paid for your bike, plus any factors, time of year etc.
Harry
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
I like it...But, Court may have trouble keeping sponsors if that thread was created...lol
Why shouldn't we have the same resources that car or motorcycle buyers have? I'm all for it.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
If we can do it, I'm all for it. However, in a similar vein, in the "For Sale" forum, shops are basically prohibited from publicly posting discounted prices, and are to take the discussion private - see paragraph two and FAQ #1:
http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/readme-for-sale-guidelines-and-faq.937/
I believe the spirit of the EBR community may be for members to discuss actual prices in private conversations only. I do that frequently.
@Ann M. do you have any guidance for this?
http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/readme-for-sale-guidelines-and-faq.937/
I believe the spirit of the EBR community may be for members to discuss actual prices in private conversations only. I do that frequently.
@Ann M. do you have any guidance for this?
Ann M.
Well-Known Member
Agreed, @stevenast take those discussions to Private Messaging. There are so many factors that go into what a final price is for a product that it would be near impossible to have a fair comparison of what someone paid for an ebike vs. what MSRP is given. You don't know if a shop just has a onezie its trying to clear out or got a spectacular deal by buying 2 pallets of product or is discounting the previous year model once the new stuff is available.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why this is such a delicate subject, why can't consumers discuss what they are paying for their ebikes? I think the number one problem with this industry is perceived high pricing. If we act only to preserve msrp, ebikes will never gain market in the US. I only bought my neo xtrem because it was a discounted demo, even then the price was high...msrp in this industry is ridiculous right now.
Not allowing true pricing discussion (between consumers) is a rather near sighted approach that seems to me would protect only a small market from potential growth.
Not allowing true pricing discussion (between consumers) is a rather near sighted approach that seems to me would protect only a small market from potential growth.
harrypottar
New Member
Sounds like I opened a can of worms.
Has a consumer I want to make sure I get the best bang for my buck, however I understand that you're in business to make money.
You are always going to get that lucky one off discount, low sales, end of quarter/season, new models etc. Those crazy deals would be hard to match and probably unfair to post publicly has others would have a hard time replicating and feel they've overpaid.
However be nice to know a more general discount out there, 10% or free accessories etc.
I'm lucky in that there is a dealer just over an hour away from me that is in a no sales tax state and they do offer free shipping if you can not drive there. The chance I get to go is on a Saturday has they close at 5pm and not open Sunday's. Will be taking a run up there this Saturday, not sure on wiggle room on brand new 2015 just arrived Evo Cross.
Fingers crossed.
Harry
Has a consumer I want to make sure I get the best bang for my buck, however I understand that you're in business to make money.
You are always going to get that lucky one off discount, low sales, end of quarter/season, new models etc. Those crazy deals would be hard to match and probably unfair to post publicly has others would have a hard time replicating and feel they've overpaid.
However be nice to know a more general discount out there, 10% or free accessories etc.
I'm lucky in that there is a dealer just over an hour away from me that is in a no sales tax state and they do offer free shipping if you can not drive there. The chance I get to go is on a Saturday has they close at 5pm and not open Sunday's. Will be taking a run up there this Saturday, not sure on wiggle room on brand new 2015 just arrived Evo Cross.
Fingers crossed.
Harry
Ann M.
Well-Known Member
It is the Forum's standard to not bringing shops' prices into this mix. You do not have a clear knowledge of the true cost involved to produce a decent, not cheap, quality ebike. It is not producing facts when it is repeatedly posted on the forum that a price is too high and you 'think' its value is less. That is a subjective observation and only breeds contention. Is there a lack of moderate priced Ebikes, yes. But there are companies who do make these items like Prodeco Tech, X-treme, E-Joe and probably a couple others. I mention these because they are not just a website shipping some uninsured bike with no service, but reputable companies that are invested in providings quality product with consumer protection, parts availablity and technical support. There is no huge ebike company out there yet with the means to market like the Treks & Giants of the regular bike universe. All ebike manufacturers are tiny compared to those. For you folks who are all do-it-yourself type, then go for the webstuff and write about it. The majority of ebike riders are not comfortable with that and really want and need the support of a specially trained shop.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
The arguments I am making are not unique to E-bikes, these exact same discussions occur over at the mtbr forum, especially when you boil it down to buying online vs. buying in a shop. Bikes Direct is the devil in the regular bike market, in the same vein that the crowd-funded bikes get treated here by some. The real problem with our market is that it appears none of the larger suppliers is willing (or able?) to play the volume game in a market where bikes are relegated to recreational use. Sounds like that will be continuing presently. I guess we will all have to tote the company line.
Bike_On
Well-Known Member
Chin up Pxpaulx. You are in a good position to buy, just being on this forum and reading/seeing the performance/cost (msrp)=value. There is enough here to find a bike of your preference with sufficient value to you. Anything less than MSRP is just more value.
I too see this venue no different than my LBS that is always listing MSRP, and has few sales. It is how they stay in business and i'm willing to play that game. When I bough a Trek DS 8.5 as a future ebike last year, they were willing to negotiate in private when I mentioned the words "cash today".
You've made some great points @pxpaulx! I would like to echo @Ann M. that you can share information here privately "between consumers" using the messaging feature. Going public however is not welcome because this site is kept alive by sponsors and they mandate MSRP in all communications to help keep their dealers healthy. In short, they mandate a MAP or "minimum advertised price" and because there have been some shop owners advertising here in the forums and others who began to undercut... it created a situation where people were no longer discussing the bikes and technology but instead were racing to the bottom on price. That's just not what this space is about and I think many individuals prefer to keep their financial positions private anyway.
I appreciate your passion. There are plenty of "low priced" ebikes out there including the Sondors on Indiegogo which came in well under $1,000. You've also got the Wave and others following suit... You can find used bikes on Craigslist and "last year" models from @Crazy Lenny Ebikes but the discussion about pricing needs to be kept private. You can call me a sellout here if you'd like but I am merely recognizing some boundaries set out by the industry and doing my best to respect them here, keeping this place professional means I can keep it operating (and pay for moderation, hosting and upgrades). In my view, electric bikes are gaining acceptance in the US, shops are growing and companies are offering more and more models to choose from at a wider range of prices. Thanks for hearing me out on this
stevenast
Well-Known Member
When the major players in the industry agree to eliminate MAP and allow retail discounts to be advertised, then the whole conversation will be changed.
I believe this will work in favor of both consumers and sellers as the market exponentially increases.
More volume, more choice, more e-bike riders!
I believe this will work in favor of both consumers and sellers as the market exponentially increases.
More volume, more choice, more e-bike riders!
Bike_On
Well-Known Member
You see Steve, this is where you are all fumble-stuck. You want a free market, open price, invoice cost that will help you (the liberal-me type) get the cheap bike they want, but put a well intended, entrepreneur ebike company in bankruptcy, and allow the big box to survive making cheap/junk ebikes so they meet their price points and sales.
It is a niche, boutique, retail market. Customers get the full breath of selection and costs.
The best means to curtail costs, that your are concerned about, would be to support the DIY market (mostly throttle), the one you want to regulate away. These guys keep OEMs honest and competitive.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
Free market is "liberal" and MAP protectionism is "conservative"? I think you got it backwards!
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
Free market is "liberal" and MAP protectionism is "conservative"? I think you got it backwards!
I don't think political leanings really tie in here. It is more like monopolistic (forced msrp/map) vs capitalistic (open market, competition). Someone who is very liberal wouldn't really like either! Most can agree from a consumer perspective that an open fair market invites competition and resulting growth.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
NoDTMF
Active Member
So one could just make their own website for price discussions and no bike sponsors. You could fund it with Adsense. I suppose we would all visit it once, and then again when buying another bike.
For the record, I discussed pricing with my dealer, bought two bikes that don't even have an MSRP in US yet (KTMs). I believe it is reasonable to discuss pricing with your dealer, perhaps other incentives like discount on accessories, etc. I think the dealer was happy with me as I had intent to buy and did not "waste" their time.
For the record, I discussed pricing with my dealer, bought two bikes that don't even have an MSRP in US yet (KTMs). I believe it is reasonable to discuss pricing with your dealer, perhaps other incentives like discount on accessories, etc. I think the dealer was happy with me as I had intent to buy and did not "waste" their time.
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