Intuvia upgrade to Kiox : anyone done this?

[Vim Fuego]

Have a Haibike Sduro 3 (2020) and generally pleased. The intuvia onboard computer is rather basic. It's range estimate is really very very poor, and I would like more smartphone integration.

Looking at a Kiox upgrade. Anyone done this (themselves)? How easy was it to do? Any gotchas to watch out for?

Also looking to hear about pros and cons. Is there anything the Intuvia does better? Will I miss any functionality?

What's the really good stuff the Kiox will give me? As I understand it, I can plan a trip and it will show directions on the display, and it tracks workouts better. Does any of this data integrate with other fitness services (e.g. Google fit) and mapping and planning services (e.g. Google maps) or is everything in a silo? Can I try any of this stuff out before I consider the upgrade?

Lastly, it seems to suggest I can do firmware updates via the smartphone, does this include existing bike components (eg motor), or just the Kiox controller?

Sorry for all the questions, I like to explore stuff before embarking to reduce chances of being disappointed.

 

[fooferdoggie]

you cant do it yourself you have to run the new wires to the motor and the motor needs dropped. you wont loose anything at all. you use ebike connect app online to add maps to the kiox. the data can be exported but its all manual. you can only update the Kiox with your phone not the bike. but if your having range problems on the display it sounds like a problem you need checked out.

 

[Vim Fuego]

Reading some more, wondering if I should jump straight to the Nyon, it's only £100 more and seems better. A bit confused, as there seems to be different years of Nyon. What's compatible with my 2020 sduro 3.0 (performance line).

Also, I don't have dealers in my area, so dealer fitting is not really an option. How hard actiat is it? Running a cable on the frame and getting access to the motor cover is well within my capability

 

[BlackHand]

If you have the budget for it the Nyon definitely has more functionality. The old nyon is the one that is bigger and landscape and uses the same wiring as Intuvia. The new Nyon is smaller and portrait and uses the same wiring as Kiox and smartphone hub.

I took maybe 1.5-2 hrs to drop the motor and feed the wiring on my Haibike. Could probably do it in 30-40 min now that I've done it once. Make sure you have a torque wrench.

Main reason to go through a dealer is so they can't use you touching the drive unit as an excuse to void your warranty and that you have current/compatible firmware on all the parts.

 

[Vim Fuego]

So the more I look into this the more confused I get. There appear to be different years models of both KIOX and NYON, and it sounds like some functions are available only on some years (so it sounds like pseduo-navigation where the smartphone does the GPS work, is only on KIOX MY21 and not earlier).

Is there a good guide or source of info to show what units from what year can do what, and will fit which bikes? There is a fair amount of functional crossover between the controllers and if functional also differs between years, it's a right old mess!!!

My bike has a Performance Line Gen3 250w motor.

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

[BlackHand]

Product combinations

Which eBike motor goes with which battery, which app matches which display? The overview of product combinations indicates the compatibilities between all Bosch eBike components.

www.bosch-ebike.com

 

[BlackHand]

That link isn't going to show the old NYON because it was discontinued 2 years ago. It would also work with your bike, but will probably cost as much or more than a new NYON if you are even able to find one - it was a good option when old stock was being cleared out cheap, not so much now that supply has dried up.

KIOX did not have nav when it first came out. That was added in a sw update last year so all KIOX's have this after they are updated.

Keep in mind that Bosch's nav functions are pretty limited and will not replace all the functionality you would get from dedicated nav sw (RidewithGPS, Google maps, etc).

Ignore the KIOX 300 - that is the new display just announced for Bosch's next gen system. Not compatible with any existing bikes.

 

[fooferdoggie]

That link isn't going to show the old NYON because it was discontinued 2 years ago. It would also work with your bike, but will probably cost as much or more than a new NYON if you are even able to find one - it was a good option when old stock was being cleared out cheap, not so much now that supply has dried up.

KIOX did not have nav when it first came out. That was added in a sw update last year so all KIOX's have this after they are updated.

Keep in mind that Bosch's nav functions are pretty limited and will not replace all the functionality you would get from dedicated nav sw (RidewithGPS, Google maps, etc).

Ignore the KIOX 300 - that is the new display just announced for Bosch's next gen system. Not compatible with any existing bikes.

you beat me too it. I have both nyons and the gold guy is Fien if you can get a decent price. its has its bugs but so does the new one too.

 

[Vim Fuego]

That link isn't going to show the old NYON because it was discontinued 2 years ago. It would also work with your bike, but will probably cost as much or more than a new NYON if you are even able to find one - it was a good option when old stock was being cleared out cheap, not so much now that supply has dried up.

KIOX did not have nav when it first came out. That was added in a sw update last year so all KIOX's have this after they are updated.

Keep in mind that Bosch's nav functions are pretty limited and will not replace all the functionality you would get from dedicated nav sw (RidewithGPS, Google maps, etc).

Ignore the KIOX 300 - that is the new display just announced for Bosch's next gen system. Not compatible with any existing bikes.

Perfect, thanks, this explains it pretty clearly. I checked my current software versions, and my drive unit is 1.3.0.0 (Performance Line 2020). It's not latest (1.3,3.0), but not ancient. I don't really want to undertake fitting this myself, if the dealer needs to upgrade software anyway...

 

[fooferdoggie]

Perfect, thanks, this explains it pretty clearly. I checked my current software versions, and my drive unit is 1.3.0.0 (Performance Line 2020). It's not latest (1.3,3.0), but not ancient. I don't really want to undertake fitting this myself, if the dealer needs to upgrade software anyway...

its best not too and you should get get it all updated at the same time. I got mine from this seller https://www.ebay.com/itm/274783173212

 

[Vim Fuego]

Anyone gone from Intuvia to Kiox? The display looks significantly smaller. Any issues with readability?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Anyone gone from Intuvia to Kiox? The display looks significantly smaller. Any issues with readability?

it's better actually. but for the cost you might as well get the nyon and get more features.

 

[Vim Fuego]

it's better actually. but for the cost you might as well get the nyon and get more features.

Cost is more than double for nyon, even more, picking up from eBay and grey market sources.

There is too much crossover and confusion in the Bosch display product line. It's as they threw lots of things at the wall to see what stuck.

Kiox does much of the stuff of nyon, in a different way, granted, and smartphonehub surely replaces nyon for anyone with a smartphone. The price doesn't always align with the functionality. SmartphoneHib retrofit kit is significantly cheaper than nyon, only a bit more than a Kiox retrofit kit.

There are quite a few Kiox units available cheap im my country, if I went this route, is the extra cabling down to the drive unit and the remote compatabile with Kiox/nyon/nyon21/smartphonehub ?

If so, it feels the path is get a cheap Kiox get the cables in and see how it plays out, I can then change the display to something else later without too much upheaval.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Cost is more than double for nyon, even more, picking up from eBay and grey market sources.

There is too much crossover and confusion in the Bosch display product line. It's as they threw lots of things at the wall to see what stuck.

Kiox does much of the stuff of nyon, in a different way, granted, and smartphonehub surely replaces nyon for anyone with a smartphone. The price doesn't always align with the functionality. SmartphoneHib retrofit kit is significantly cheaper than nyon, only a bit more than a Kiox retrofit kit.

There are quite a few Kiox units available cheap im my country, if I went this route, is the extra cabling down to the drive unit and the remote compatabile with Kiox/nyon/nyon21/smartphonehub ?

If so, it feels the path is get a cheap Kiox get the cables in and see how it plays out, I can then change the display to something else later without too much upheaval.

its only 100.00 more so not much.but my link is who I bought mine from and it was a great purchase. yes if you can get a used Kiox thats cheap. so many complaints about the smartphone hub out there.

 

[BlackHand]

There are quite a few Kiox units available cheap im my country, if I went this route, is the extra cabling down to the drive unit and the remote compatabile with Kiox/nyon/nyon21/smartphonehub ?

Yes, I already answered this in post 4

If so, it feels the path is get a cheap Kiox get the cables in and see how it plays out, I can then change the display to something else later without too much upheaval.

I made a similar decision when getting the Smartphone Hub. It is a gamble- you'll either save some $$ if you like the Kiox or if you decide to upgrade later you will have spent a a fair bit more than necessary given that a Nyon head unit + mount and clamps costs as much as the full Nyon upgrade kit.

While I'm relatively happy with the SPH (aside from the phone mount which should be recalled as it is completely unsuitable for sustained use on real world roads or trails), I think the smart choice would have been just to get the Nyon.

 

[Vim Fuego]

Nyon '21 Arrived from Germany (had to pay Brexit fees), and fitted is this afternoon. Mostly pleased. Had some weird behaviour with routes not being tracked, and I hop that's not a common occurrence, and it's something that settles down.

 

[IggyBBR]

I have upgraded a previous bike that came with Intuvia to Purion, had no issues and yes the motor (most nerve racking first time doing it) needed to be dropped. And on another bike I went from a Purion to a Kiox with no issues, same deal, the motor needed to be dropped. So it's totally possible, if you have the tools, mechanical skills and patience to do so. Make sure you're ordering the upgrade kit (head unit, cradle, controller and cables), which will everything needed for the Kiox to be retro fitted to the bike.

 

[Vim Fuego]

My only advice. If you are dropping the motor, to change the cables, be very careful about torque settings when tightening back up. Read several horror stories about stripped threads on the motor, which is an expensive problem.

The TORX T30 screws should be tightened to 10nm torque. So get yourself a torque wrench that operates in this range. I picked a good one up on Amazon for £25.

You might not even need to drop the motor, it depends on the bike frame design and cable routing. On my Haibike Sduro 3, I could get to the cables in the downtube, but the connector on the cable wouldn't fit between the motor casing and the frame, so I eventually had to, other bike frame designs or cable routing might be different.

I'm glad I did it myself, the local Bosch service centres didn't inspire confidence, not even remotely, most didn't know anything about the job, and the only non local one that did, wanted £80 for the privilege.