Instead of banning certain members...

[m@Robertson]

Government data regarding 15,000,000 people on their vaccination status and case rates.
Feel free to give your invented excuses, or try a reasoned response regarding possibilities Or just take the cowardly route again.

yeah yeah. You can't reason with a fanatic and a fool. So I'm just pointing out you are bleating nonsense. I suggest you ask Mom for permission to go outside and get some sun. Assuming you aren't grounded.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I'm just morbidly curious about how the minds of anti-vaxxers actually "work".

So it seems all of the anti-vaxx screeds I have seen seem to always talk about "the vaccine" as if there is only one kind of vaccine, when here in the Untied States there are three (maybe four with Novavax) and worldwide there are more than half a dozen. So in your canon are some vaccines safer than others or more effective than others, or are all of them just icky?

Also, again in the Untied States, J&J's vaccine is now pulled both due to problems with blood clots in some patients and because overall the vaccine was much less effective. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines continue to be available and effective, though less effective than they were against Alpha and Beta. How do you fit your government/big pharma conspiracy theories into that fact? Was J&J used as a sacrificial goat to dupe us normies into thinking that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were safe because they were still permitted? I just want to know...

 

[Handlebars]

yeah yeah. You can't reason with a fanatic and a fool. So I'm just pointing out you are bleating nonsense.

Wrong. You didn't point out any nonsense because there isn't any. That is government data on vaxx status and corresponding case rates with boostered at about double the rate of the fully vaxxed. So you take the coward's route. That is satisfying.

 

[Handlebars]

I'm just morbidly curious about how the minds of anti-vaxxers actually "work".

So it seems all of the anti-vaxx screeds I have seen seem to always talk about "the vaccine" as if there is only one kind of vaccine, when here in the Untied States there are three (maybe four with Novavax) and worldwide there are more than half a dozen. So in your canon are some vaccines safer than others or more effective than others, or are all of them just icky?

Also, again in the Untied States, J&J's vaccine is now pulled both due to problems with blood clots in some patients and because overall the vaccine was much less effective. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines continue to be available and effective, though less effective than they were against Alpha and Beta. How do you fit your government/big pharma conspiracy theories into that fact?

I show government data, that is how. And you have nothing in your toolkit to dispute it.

 

[Handlebars]

I'm just morbidly curious about how the minds of anti-vaxxers actually "work".

So it seems all of the anti-vaxx screeds I have seen seem to always talk about "the vaccine" as if there is only one kind of vaccine, when here in the Untied States there are three (maybe four with Novavax) and worldwide there are more than half a dozen. So in your canon are some vaccines safer than others or more effective than others, or are all of them just icky?

Also, again in the Untied States, J&J's vaccine is now pulled both due to problems with blood clots in some patients and because overall the vaccine was much less effective. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines continue to be available and effective, though less effective than they were against Alpha and Beta. How do you fit your government/big pharma conspiracy theories into that fact? Was J&J used as a sacrificial goat to dupe us normies into thinking that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were safe because they were still permitted? I just want to know...

Do normal government reports differentiate between vaccines for cases and hospitalizations and deaths? No. Yet as a cowardly bully and a know-nothing, you make such demands.

 

[m@Robertson]

Wrong. You didn't point out any nonsense because there isn't any. That is government data on vaxx status and corresponding case rates with boostered at about double the rate of the fully vaxxed. So you take the coward's route. That is satisfying.

Aww thats cute. You're trying to bait me again.

This is a bicycle forum. You don't post about bicycles or ebikes or anything else that this site is here for. So you must just get off on the abuse, the ranting and All. That. Typing. Maybe go mentally masturbate somewhere else for awhile or forever? I mean its a free internet and in the modern world no judgment that you get your jollies this way and all. But since you have nothing useful to say here and you are effectively worthless...

 

[Handlebars]

Aww thats cute. You're trying to bait me again.

Nope. Just government data regarding 15,000,000 people, showing the boostered at twice the case rate of the fully vaxxed. Low-intellect bullies can't respond on topic.

 

[Handlebars]

Aww thats cute. You're trying to bait me again.

This is a bicycle forum. You don't post about bicycles or ebikes or anything else that this site is here for. So you must just get off on the abuse, the ranting and All. That. Typing. Maybe go mentally masturbate somewhere else for awhile or forever? I mean its a free internet and in the modern world no judgment that you get your jollies this way and all. But since you have nothing useful to say here and you are effectively worthless...

That's because I read and don't talk about stuff I don't know...something you might try to learn from.

 

[Handlebars]

Here's an example. People say you can balance your battery by long charge overnight. Others say there is no long trickle from overnight charging. Me? I watch my battery and try to determine if there is any way to effect a better charge.
So far my only conclusion is that I THINK it does better if I unplug several times during charging and let the battery rest, especially after about 85%. But it could be better mileage
simply from wind conditions difference, tire pressure, temperatures...so I read and I watch.

Try doing that and you won't look like such a cowardly bully when the chips are down.
BTW, Thank you for the air compressor idea.
Tom once gave me an idea that saved me some bruises.
You're not all bad, you're just misguided into being gang bullies.That makes you cowards. Stop that.

 

[Catalyzt]

I don't know about that.

Honestly if you consider three groups of people:

1. People who didn't think COVID-19 was serious or that their personal risk to it was very high
2. People who vehemently opposed wearing masks
3. People who vehemently opposed getting vaccinated

... I'd bet that you have considerable overlap between those groups. And that makes perfect sense. Why would you want to wear a mask or take a vaccine if you judge that there is no need to do so? But my point is that what I think we've seen with a lot of the material about vaccine risks is motivated reasoning by people who were never going to willingly take any COVID vaccine in the first place. So no, I don't think a different approach would have increased vaccination rates here in the Untied States of America.

I don't know, either-- my statement was highly speculative, meant to be thought provoking. I agree, for example, if someone's publishing an article that refers to the unvaccinated as 'purebloods' -- that would suggest that yes, the author was probably never going to take any COVID vaccine no matter what.

Sure, there's often considerable overlap between the three groups, that's fair. But I think group three is likely to contain people with the widest variety of motivations. You'll have folks who think the vaccine has microchips, the 5G folks, anti-science and crackpot religious folks, sure, but also people who've been burned by the US health care system, people who have chronic illnesses, allergies, etc., and people who just become outraged when authority figures talk down to them. I would have far less patience with people from group 1 or group 2 than people from the subset of group 3 that's pissed about happy talk-- and, sometimes, flat out lies-- from the CDC or FDA, or who have asked sensible, health-related questions about the vaccine and gotten only sound bites for an answer.

I find the criticism of Fauci to be way, WAY out of line, I mean, talk about shooting the messenger! OTOH, wow, don't you feel so much safer now that they're planning to change the name of monkeypox?! I can't imagine a more asinine use of time and resources. And I understand why people get really pissed off about it. That nonsense has got to stop.

I remember when I worked for the Muscular Dystrophy Association, and the central office announced that we'd stop referring to genes as 'damaged.' All the kids in wheelchairs -- aged about 11 to 19 -- rolled up to my boss's office and said, "No, the gene is damaged. If you start calling it 'special' or something lame like that, we'll all walk off the show."

Damn right.

 

[Handlebars]

I find the criticism of Fauci to be way, WAY out of line, I mean, talk about shooting the messenger!

From that, I think you might not have enough of the pertinent info on Fauci.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I find the criticism of Fauci to be way, WAY out of line, I mean, talk about shooting the messenger! OTOH, wow, don't you feel so much safer now that they're planning to change the name of monkeypox?! I can't imagine a more asinine use of time and resources. And I understand why people get really pissed off about it. That nonsense has got to stop.

Yeah, one big way (but not every way) the public health authorities let us down was that the messaging on this pandemic, from the very beginning, was extremely poor. It didn't help that there were a lot of people who seized upon every misstep or miscommunication (and there were a lot of them) to advance their own agendas. To be fair, from what I've seen, the public health people were well-intentioned and were at least trying to minimize the number of sick and dead people. Which I can't say for a lot of the other players in this sorry drama.

The vaccines were delivered in record time and were in some ways a technological miracle. The potential for mRNA technology for making other vaccines and treating many other diseases is enormous as well. So I'm kind of proud of us humans figuring this out so quickly. Arguably the rapid deployment of those vaccines saved literally millions of lives.

On the other hand, I'm honestly flabbergasted that so many people don't seem to realize what a great thing these vaccines could be and their potential to save many more lives. I wonder if they would turn down that same technology when it is offered as a cancer treatment or a treatment for diabetes? Just how foolish and shortsighted so many people can be bluntly is very depressing, and it is hard not to consider them as obnoxiously spoiled children.

This whole sordid episode doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that our species and civilization will rise to the challenge if we are confronted with a much more serious pandemic. It is easy to image a novel pathogen which is just as easy to transmit but has a fatality rate ten times higher. In our present state I suspect most of us would be reduced to savagery if that happened.

 

[Gordon71]

"On the other hand, I'm honestly flabbergasted that so many people don't seem to realize what a great thing these vaccines could be and their potential to save many more lives."

That's what happens when one side politicizes a pandemic even though it was their side that was in charge and pushed for the vaccine. Not only that but the so called leader of that side kept it a secret when he got vaccinated. It was so bad by then that when he FINALLY admitted that the vaccine was the way to go and that he too had taken it, his supporters booed him. How effed up is that?

 

[Mulezen]

The Fauci hate I find disgusting…as I’ve informed a few acquaintances…The US’s response to Covid WAS chaotic…Trump and his minions saw to that. There were blueprints sitting in the WH on how to deal with the situation…hard wrought experience from the Obama Administration. But it was tossed because? Owning the Libs? Too challenging for the fuzzy brains in charge? Or just murderous incompetence? The US’s response to the pandemic was pretty much the worst in the world…hundreds of thousands of needless death…millions permanently scarred…I believe Fauci, and Birx, and other scientists did, as my old coach used to say, “I do the best I can with the poor material at my disposal.” The anti-science stance goes hand in hand with the ‘true believers’…Christian Nationalists, Q, and a trash can full of associates. Maybe I better go back to bush hogging

 

[Handlebars]

"On the other hand, I'm honestly flabbergasted that so many people don't seem to realize what a great thing these vaccines could be and their potential to save many more lives."

That's what happens when one side politicizes a pandemic even though it was their side that was in charge and pushed for the vaccine. Not only that but the so called leader of that side kept it a secret when he got vaccinated. It was so bad by then that when he FINALLY admitted that the vaccine was the way to go and that he too had taken it, his supporters booed him. How effed up is that?

No evidence given for your tale.
Joe and Kamala are on record sowing doubt about "Trump's rushed vaccine". I provide evidence. You do not...because you swallow media lies. Tom also swallowed a media lie about "fine people" and provided a dishonestly edited version as evidence.When the full version was given he quit but never admitted he was hoaxed. Here is your people - should be considered traitors, really, by your side of this argument, both sowing doubt and confusion for political gain:
First, dirty Kamala sowing doubt:
"
Washington (CNN)Democratic vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris said that President Donald Trump's word alone on any potential coronavirus vaccine is not enough.
Asked by CNN's Dana Bash in a clip released Saturday whether she would get a vaccine that was approved and distributed before the election, Harris replied, "Well, I think that's going to be an issue for all of us."
"I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about," she continued in the clip from an exclusive interview airing Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" at 9 a.m. ET. "I will not take his word for it."
CNN reported Thursday that Trump has pressured administration health officials to accelerate the vaccine's development in an effort to convince voters of an impending end to the pandemic threatening his reelection. A number of sources familiar with the internal workings told CNN the responsibility feels immense and the environment is akin to that of a pressure cooker.
When asked by Bash whether she thought that public health experts and scientists would get the last word on the efficacy of a vaccine, Harris predicted that they will not.
"If past is prologue that they will not, they'll be muzzled, they'll be suppressed, they will be sidelined," Harris said. "Because he's looking at an election coming up in less than 60 days and he's grasping to get whatever he can to pretend he has been a leader on this issue when he is not."
The administration has sought to counter concerns that politics will influence elements of the vaccine's development or distribution.
Moncef Slaoui, the chief adviser to Operation Warp Speed, said in an interview with Science published Thursday that he would resign from his role if there was undue interference in the Covid-19 vaccine effort.
"I have to say there has been absolutely no interference," he continued, adding that he would be "out" if he saw a push for a US Food and Drug Administration emergency use authorization that he didn't believe in.
And administration health officials have continued to insist that no vaccine or treatment will be approved for use -- either through full authorization or an emergency use designation -- unless it is safe and effective.
"No one is pressuring the FDA to do anything," Trump's press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said on Thursday.
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has said he would get a Covid-19 vaccination once a vaccine proves to be safe and effective and becomes available.
"I will look at the data and I would assume -- and I'm pretty sure it's going to be the case -- that a vaccine would not be approved for the American public unless it was indeed both safe and effective," Fauci told CNN's Jim Sciutto on Thursday. "If that's the case Jim, I would not hesitate for a moment to take the vaccine myself and recommend it for my family."
When asked by Bash in the interview airing Sunday if she feels more comfortable hearing those assurances from someone like Fauci, Harris said the nation's top infectious disease expert has for years "put the public health of the American people as the highest priority in terms of his work, and his reputation and his priority."
"Yes. I trust Dr. Fauci," Harris continued. She said she "would trust the word of public health experts and scientists, but not Donald Trump."
More than 6.2 million people have been infected in the US since the pandemic began, and at least 187,797 people have died, according to Johns Hopkins University.
CNN's Kevin Liptak and Kaitlan Collins contributed to this report."

When asked by Bash whether she thought that public health experts and scientists would get the last word on the efficacy of a vaccine, Harris predicted that they will not.

• September 6, 2020: Kamala Harris says "I think that's going to be an issue" when asked if she would get an approved coronavirus vaccine.
• July 28, 2020: Joe Biden suggests the coronavirus vaccine won't be "real" and may not be "safe."
• August 6, 2020: Biden says the vaccine is "not likely to go through all the tests that needs to be and the trials that are needed to be done."
• September 3, 2020: Biden asks "Who's going to take the shot? Are you going to be the first one to say sign me up?"
• September 7, 2020: Biden said he would take the coronavirus vaccine "only if we knew all of what went into it."

 

[tomjasz]

I read many of you writing about your disbelief and flippant distain of some familiar religious community perhaps because abortion is murder.
I know, however, you all follow the ten commandments and avoid your mortal sin because deep down you know God within and throughout you.
You behave well and can't forget God is Love and yet we have faith in the resurection and judgement of life.
Don't 'cha just know it?

Jesus Thinks You’re a Jerk


.

 

[Handlebars]

The Fauci hate I find disgusting…as I’ve informed a few acquaintances…

He's a proven repeat liar, and when anyone involved in medical processes lies to the public, they do a great disservice to the public.

1. Fauci lied about masks, and if they are as important as later emphasized, he may have caused deaths.
2. Fauci lied about funding gain of function research in order to protect himself and cronies.

From this interview alone

3. Fauci lied about Official FDA Approval of the vaccines.
4. Fauci lied about DNA from abortion-derived cell lines in vaccine... a lie which would cause certain religious groups to lose a great deal of confidence, and may have caused deaths.

But that isn't all... there is more about his connection to the Wuhan lab gain of function research which he funneled through a bag man at EcoHealth

 

[DavidRvR]

I don't know about that.

Honestly if you consider three groups of people:

1. People who didn't think COVID-19 was serious or that their personal risk to it was very high
2. People who vehemently opposed wearing masks
3. People who vehemently opposed getting vaccinated

... I'd bet that you have considerable overlap between those groups. And that makes perfect sense. Why would you want to wear a mask or take a vaccine if you judge that there is no need to do so? But my point is that what I think we've seen with a lot of the material about vaccine risks is motivated reasoning by people who were never going to willingly take any COVID vaccine in the first place. So no, I don't think a different approach would have increased vaccination rates here in the Untied States of America.

I wasn’t any of those in the beginning… I was really worried for my father in law .. he is 72 at the time with heart issues.. I’m still not against certain vaccines still today. Masks have never worked to the extend they are leading everyone to believe. Look at the size of the virus then look at the size of the opening in cloth masks and add to that people are not rained on how not to touch everything over and over.. a desaster in the making with false security.

After reading and reading and reading.. I’m at this point today. I’ve personally used ivermectin and I personally know 40 people approx who were sick that used it (had covid) and it was gone within a day or two. A guy who has worked for me for 15 years, his brother had been in the hospital for a month in a bed on a ventilator and going down hill. Give him some to ship overnight to his bro in Mexico.. 1 week later was home.. still took time to build his muscles up but he survived and is way better and on a road for recovery. Does there treatments work? Not really. They treat the secondary infections or symptoms so it’s an uphill battle.

I try not to call names or insult anyone on here.. I have respect for everyone .. right or wrong… I understand some see my point and I won’t see everyone else’s but I keep it respectable .. hurling insults only hurts the discussion and makes one who throws them look bad.

Side note on Fauci

 

[tomjasz]

I wasn’t any of those in the beginning… I was really worried for my father in law .. he is 72 at the time with heart issues.. I’m still not against certain vaccines still today. Masks have never worked to the extend they are leading everyone to believe. Look at the size of the virus then look at the size of the opening in cloth masks and add to that people are not rained on how not to touch everything over and over.. a desaster in the making with false security.

After reading and reading and reading.. I’m at this point today. I’ve personally used ivermectin and I personally know 40 people approx who were sick that used it (had covid) and it was gone within a day or two. A guy who has worked for me for 15 years, his brother had been in the hospital for a month in a bed on a ventilator and going down hill. Give him some to ship overnight to his bro in Mexico.. 1 week later was home.. still took time to build his muscles up but he survived and is way better and on a road for recovery. Does there treatments work? Not really. They treat the secondary infections or symptoms so it’s an uphill battle.

I try not to call names or insult anyone on here.. I have respect for everyone .. right or wrong… I understand some see my point and I won’t see everyone else’s but I keep it respectable .. hurling insults only hurts the discussion and makes one who throws them look bad.

Side note on Fauci

Pure bullshit.
PLONK join the Canuck.

 

[Handlebars]

I was in favor of the vax mandates (briefly), when we were told-- and it looked like-- vaccines prevented infection almost completely, or that asymptomatic infections in vaccinated people could not be transmitted to others. When it became clear that they didn't-- after the Provincetown incident-- I changed my mind.

What really bugged me was reading in Rheumatology Today about how to manage the "vaccine hesitant." It was just a list of sound bites that sounded like they were written by some PR company that doctors could use for people with Lupus and similar disorders to reassure them that the vaccine was safe-- with absolutely no explanation of why it was supposed to be safe. Nothing about the Interferon pathway, T cells, B cells, double-stranded DNA, anti-RNP, Smith Antibodies.

You're right about the 'broad brush,' too, IMHO. I hate the label 'vaccine hesitant.' It's insulting. Why talk down to people? Why not admit what we don't know? That's not good for anybody!

Would we really have had a lower vaccination rate if we'd been more transparent about the risks? I don't think so, I think the vaccination rate might actually have been higher-- particularly among groups for whom the vaccine is probably safer! And if we'd been more transparent, we could change policy faster if it turns out that multiple vaccinations really do translate to significantly higher risk.

Instead, the formula is always the same: People are stupid. Don't go off message, just keep saying the same thing over and over again. That doesn't leave a lot of room to change the standard of care quickly when this little b*tch starts mutating and behaving in ways no one expected.

We see things very differently on many, even most, issues, but on this one, you're not alone. It makes me feel less hopeless when it's possible to have a healthy exchange of ideas with someone I usually disagree with. Ride hard, ride fast, and stay safe out there, man!

I have a guess regarding the situation where the appearance on the graph indicates that the more shots you have taken, the more likely you are to be a case.
That graph is from a screenshot a couple of months back. It was after they took down their page when it was shown on YouTube.
They came back after they destroyed the natural control group "unvaccinated" and added in partially vaxxed and all cases from people who took a second shot and became a case within 2 weeks, naming it the "Not Fully Vaccinated".
Then they completely discontinued updating but still show the last data. As I check all government sources frequently I can relate what has happened over the months and you can still see the last update graph yourself by googling "Ontario gov covid-19 cases" and going to the page that mentions cases and spread and waiting for the page to load.
So what happened is that gradually the group "Fully Vaccinated" became very slightly lower than "Not Fully Vaccinated", after intertwining a bit, very closely following together. Then both stayed low, approximately half the case rate of the boostered.
Since the group "Not Fully Vaccinated" bears all the cases from people recently receiving even their second shot, the not fully vaxxed group is artificially made higher and the fully vaxxed group is lower, essentially tilting the table to hide that the unvaxxed are the lowest case rates.

So here's my guess. Each time you take a shot your immune response is harmed at least temporarily - I guess mostly people recover from that immune response harm over time, leaving the most recently harmed at twice the case rate.
Here's a real problem: vaxxed people are also hospitalized and dying. The more cases the more chance of hospitalization, and this is proven to be true as the vaxxed
were the great majority of hospitalizations in recent months, which is to be expected due to their being the great majority of the population. Doubling their case rate increased hospitalizations and deaths in that group comparatively.