Install dedicated headlight with Das-kit C7?

[PCeBiker]

Looks like the T1000 has a few different connectors? I guess you'll have to see what you get when the off-road display arrives. Yes, the way my light works it runs directly off the battery at 48V and the switch is on the light itself. I thought it was a crappy light so now have handlebar lights which are powered by rechargeable batteries. I don't use the lights much either as I'm not that fond of night riding.

I don't want to ride at night but figure I might have to if something goes wrong and I have to pedal or push it home.
I'm thinking a cheap white light with AAA batteries like the rear light.

I was thinking about unplugging anyway, so that I can light up my display without turning on the light.

BTW, when I was on the ET web site, I noted that the specs say the T1000 has a 22 amp controller whereas mine is 18 amp..Maybe you already mentioned this, but could partially explain why the T1000 has more zip.

I couldn't find that info at Amego or Cloud Ebikes.

I thought it was a 15 amp controller for Europe 18 amp for Canada, and 22 amp for the US?
They are all labeled CT5-I5

 

[Fred]

I don't want to ride at night but figure I might have to if something goes wrong and I have to pedal or push it home.
I'm thinking a cheap white light with AAA batteries like the rear light.

I was thinking about unplugging anyway, so that I can light up my display without turning on the light.



I couldn't find that info at Amego or Cloud Ebikes.

I thought it was a 15 amp controller for Europe 18 amp for Canada, and 22 amp for the US?
They are all labeled CT5-I5

You could be right. I saw it on the Canadian side of the ET Cycle web site -- but they have been lazy and just copied the specs over from the US site.

ET.Cycle T1000

The fatbike for going the extra EXTRA mile. Top speed: 32 km/h Range: 200 km Tire width: 4.0" Motor: Das-Kit, G20 integrated Rim Rear Motor, 48V 500 W continuous, 750W peak FREE DOMESTIC SHIPPING Once your order is placed, you will receive a confirmation email letting you know that our team...

ca.etcycle.com

 

[PCeBiker]

You could be right. I saw it on the Canadian side of the ET Cycle web site -- but they have been lazy and just copied the specs over from the US site.

And this is what they list as the motor,..

It's supposed to be the G26 750W 1000W peak motor?

22 amps at 48 volts is 1000 Watts.

 

[ovt]

And this is what they list as the motor,..

View attachment 142089

It's supposed to be the G26 750W 1000W peak motor?

22 amps at 48 volts is 1000 Watts.

My das-kit X15R with CT5-I5 controller, 48v, can reach 45km/h suspended, and on the road around 39-42km/h. I still don't know exactly how many amps the controller has because I haven't disassembled it.I just unlocked the speed through the display.

 

[PCeBiker]

My das-kit X15R with CT5-I5 controller, 48v, can reach 45km/h suspended, and on the road around 39-42km/h.

I'm just about finished installing my 25 amp KT controller so I should be able to go about the same speed?

I still don't know exactly how many amps the controller has because I haven't disassembled it.

Im not sure if all CT5-I5 Das-Kit Controllers are the same? (but I think they are?)
The only way to know for sure how many amps the controller is putting out is to measure it with an Ammeter.

I'm pretty sure that the Das-Kit software will limit power after a certain amount of time, or a certain controller temperature is reached?

My motor is unlabeled, so I have no real idea what it is or what the parameters are.
The information is really sketchy.

 

[ovt]

I'm just about finished installing my 25 amp KT controller so I should be able to go about the same speed?



Im not sure if all CT5-I5 Das-Kit Controllers are the same? (but I think they are?)
The only way to know for sure how many amps the controller is putting out is to measure it with an Ammeter.

I'm pretty sure that the Das-Kit software will limit power after a certain amount of time, or a certain controller temperature is reached?

My motor is unlabeled, so I have no real idea what it is or what the parameters are.
The information is really sketchy.

Can you put a link please of that 25amp controller?

 

[PCeBiker]

This isn't the one I bought, but it's the one I should have bought.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrznoBG

You want to get a Sine Wave Controller with waterproof plugs.

Waterproof plugs are WAY easier to install and it keeps the install cleaner and waterproof.

The controller itself is supposed to be waterproof, but I didn't trust it, and put it in a waterproof box.


And this is the display I bought to go with it.
You have to get a KT display for a KT controller.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqMrHv4

I could have bought the same display with a USB port, but I don't need it.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_msrZy8O

There is also a newer display with a graphic display,..

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOeuZt8

There are a whole bunch of different displays to pick from including vertical mount instead of horizontal, as well as older LCD black and white displays.

Don't get something like this, because it's too old and doesn't have all the adjustable parameters built in to the display.
And it looks like something from an exercise bike from the 70's.




You're also going to need a 1 to 4 or a 1 to 5 cable to connect your controller up to the handlebars and the throttle, brake switches, and display.




The brake switch connectors on my Tektro hydraulic brakes are some weird Julet plug that I couldn't find anywhere, so you may need to cut the inputs off at the display to splice into the wires to connect the brake switches.



The brake switch connectors on the 1 to 4 cable are 3 pin, but only two of the pins are used


The 1 to 5 cable has an extra connector for the headlight, so that you can turn the headlight on and off with the display.
Be aware that it can only power a low power headlight that draws a maximum of less than 1 amp.
A high power headlight will blow the circuit in the controller then you'll have to power the headlight some other way.

The headlight plug on my T1000 is another oddball and uses a triangular Higo 3 pin connector with only 2 pins used as well.



I believe the Moscow Plus has a normal red 2 pin Julet headlight connector?

And lastly, Das-Kit decided to swap the male and female throttle connectors to make things difficult, so you'll have to deal with that too.

You do need to be pretty handy with electronics and a multimeter to install a KT controller.
I still haven't figured out which two pins to use for my brake switches, but everything is coming along now that I got my motor cable soldered into my KT controller. (which you won't need to do on an NCM ebike.)



It's best to buy everything separately to get the best prices. The cable ranges from $15 to $30.
Keep in mind whether things have free shipping or not to know exactly what you're spending, and a lot of stores show a price for the cheapest thing they sell, so you have to click on the ad then click on the item you're interested in.


A 25 amp controller is bigger than a 17 amp controller.
The controllers come in 4 standard sizes, and they are increasing the output of each size box as they improve the efficiency of the Mosfets.

I believe that the smallest box is up to 20 amps now?
You should be able to find one with waterproof plugs, but you probably want more power, so you'll need the next size box.







I've got the box that is listed as 68mm wide and 128mm long, but it is actually 72mm wide.
That store shows the width from the screw centers, and the other stores show the actual width of the box.


This is my controller installed in the waterproof box, sitting roughly where I intend to install it.
I want to keep it protected better by the chain ring so it doesn't get hit on a curb or log, so I moved it down a bit.



The controller just fit in the box so I could get the lid on.
The box is about ½" longer inside than the controller.
So a bit of a size reference for you.


I unfortunately couldn't attach my motor cable to the controller because the connector is proprietary and not available, so I had to cut the motor cable off of my Das-Kit Controller and solder all the wires into my KT controller.
That was a big PITA.

Your Moscow Plus, and I believe all other NCM ebikes have the standard motor connector from the motor, so a KT controller should just plug right in.
I've got a 750 1000w peak motor, so the motor cable is a higher amp version.


These are the two motor plugs for comparison,..

 

[ovt]

Put some updates after testing the bike with the new controller. What is the maximum speed,the reaction time, how long does it take to go from 0 to 25-30-40km/h...etc.

 

[ovt]

This is my ebike and this is the thread where I mentioned about all the upgrades I made to it: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/ncm-moscow-plus-throttle.33675/page-17#post-571582

 

[PCeBiker]

Put some updates after testing the bike with the new controller. What is the maximum speed,the reaction time, how long does it take to go from 0 to 25-30-40km/h...etc.

That's going to take a while.
I need enter the number of magnets in the motor, and the gear ratio of the internal gears to get my speedometer accurate, and I have no idea what my motor is, let alone the # of magnets or gear teeth.
I'm not opening up my motor to count everything.

Right now the wheel is spinning at about 5 kph and reading about 70 kph.


I can just adjust with the settings until the speedometer reads what my GPS on my phone is reading.
I have to download a GPS app and figure that out too, before I can get it set.


I also ditched the cadence sensor, so I won't have any PAS modes now.
I'm going to rig up a secondary adjustable throttle to use as a cruise control, then I will just pedal along when I feel like it.



The motor will cut out instantly when I hit the brakes.


Acceleration will be hard for me to measure unless the GPS app can measure that.

One thing that I learned is that my motor is geared for torque, so lots of torque at slower speeds, but that may limit my top speed because my motors' maximum RPM will be reached sooner?

@Fred sent me this link to an NCM Facebook post,..

So your Moscow Plus certainly has the capacity to make you your pants.

I don't know what he did or what controller he used, but I know that a KT controller will deliver all the power you need to go as fast as possible (as well as enough to cook your motor and melt your wiring.)

You could install a 35 amp Kt controller on your rear rack, and go like Hell.

 

[PCeBiker]

This is my ebike and this is the thread where I mentioned about all the upgrades I made to it: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/ncm-moscow-plus-throttle.33675/page-17#post-571582

I remember reading that thread, and noted what Timpo found out about a 52 volt battery.
Das-Kit will not accept a 52 volt battery, but a KT controller will accept it and send it to your motor.

I don't know how your X15R motor will deal with it, but from what I understand, the motor should be fine as long as you don't crank it for too long and cook it.

I also found out that a 52 volt battery (with the same watt hours as a 48 voltage battery), will give you more pep at first but that will drop off rather quickly as the voltage drains down to that of a 48 volt battery.
Then it drains quicker than the 48 volt battery.

The 48 volt battery ends up with more range and better overall performance, but the 52 volt battery is faster when it's fully charged.

 

[PCeBiker]

My das-kit X15R with CT5-I5 controller, 48v, can reach 45km/h suspended, and on the road around 39-42km/h. I still don't know exactly how many amps the controller has because I haven't disassembled it.

You can't really disassemble the Das-Kit Controller. It's fully potted with material.
I ended up carefully picking all of it out to expose the wires to see where they went and to check the printing on the circuit board to find out the firing order of Das-Kit Controller so I could match up the wires to the KT controller to get it working.
Das-Kit likes to do everything upside down and backwards so people like me can't figure how things work.



It turned out that Das-Kit did reverse the firing order, so I had to swap both pairs of blue and yellow wires.
After doing that, my controller didn't work, so I put all the wires back to match up all the colors and that worked.
Seems wrong, but it's working now. Go figure??

So, I ended up really going to town with this install, but you or anyone else with an NCM ebike should have no problem because the motor cable should plug right in for you.

The Das-Kit Controller, by the way, is bullet proof!!
It really is well-built with "Practical German Engineering".
The KT controller is "cheap" in comparison but is also cheaper to purchase at about ⅓ of the price.


So a KT controller probably won't make much difference for you as far as power or top speed goes.
It kinda looks like your motor has a maximum speed/RPM of 45 kph and it has enough torque and power to take you to ~42 kph.
My motor (whatever the hell it is? ) probably has the same maximum speed/RPM but might have enough power to get to 45 kph with the few extra amps that the KT controller can provide.
I'm pretty sure that the Das-Kit CT5-I5 are 22 amp controllers when they are unlocked like yours.


Unfortunately, I won't be able to tell about the lag, or lack there of, with my controller because I didn't connect my PAS sensor (cadence sensor)

The reason I installed the KT controller was because I didn't like how the throttle operated.
I would just touch the throttle and the bike would go to full power until it was going at least 12 kph or whatever PAS mode speed it was at.
It wasn't a real throttle. It's just an on/off switch.

So I decided to install a twist throttle to try and get a more sensitive throttle, but it was exactly the same. Full power or nothing.

So then I bought an off-road display from New Zealand because it would allow me to turn the bike down to Eco mode and gave me adjustments for maximum speed and different throttle settings.
That too was exactly the same.
I turned the PAS off and set my throttle to 6 kph.
I would just touch the throttle, and the bike would launch so fast that it was going 12 kph before it even knew how fast it was going then would slow itself back down to 6 kph.
So I returned my off-road display for a refund (but I still lost over $100 on shipping and duty)

That's when I decided, "enough of this crap!" and ordered a KT controller.
That turned into a real adventure too with the motor cable issue, but everything is close to finished now and I should be ready for a test drive soon.

The KT controller has what they call "imitation torque control" which I think is a dumb way of saying that it is simply "power control" just like a real throttle on a car or motorcycle.
A little bit of throttle gives you a little bit of power, and a lot of throttle gives you a lot of power.

The same "power control" applies to PAS modes as well, with no stupid lag when you stop or start pedaling, and you control how much power the PAS kicks in with. Not just all or nothing with a waiting period.

If I had my way, I'd remove every computer chip on my ebike.
All I want is a battery, a motor, and a throttle.
That doesn't mean that I don't ever want to pedal. It just means that I don't want no stupid robot analyzing me and deciding for me what I want the bike to do.

I want to have that control, not a computer.

Sorry for the rant.
I have a real disdain for artificial intelligence. I think it's naturally stupid.

 

[Fred]

The KT controller has what they call "imitation torque control" which I think is a dumb way of saying that it is simply "power control" just like a real throttle on a car or motorcycle.
A little bit of throttle gives you a little bit of power, and a lot of throttle gives you a lot of power.

I'm not sure about this, but I thought this simulated torque sensor business had to do with PAS and that it meant that each PAS level could be based on % max current and not speed (which is what the Das-Kit controller uses) . My programmable Bafang BBS02 gave the option to use either "speed" or "current" as the basis for pedal assist. Almost everyone chose "current" as it gave a more natural feel.

As I say, I could be all wrong about what it means on the KT Controller.

 

[PCeBiker]

I'm not sure about this, but I thought this simulated torque sensor business had to do with PAS and that it meant that each PAS level could be based on % max current and not speed (which is what the Das-Kit controller uses) . My programmable Bafang BBS02 gave the option to use either "speed" or "current" as the basis for pedal assist. Almost everyone chose "current" as it gave a more natural feel.

As I say, I could be all wrong about what it means on the KT Controller.

Yes, that's exactly it.
The KT controller allows you to make the same choice.

I can choose to have as little as 75 Watts in PAS mode 1 (if I had my cadence sensor connected) which would allow me to easily travel along at about 6 or 7 mph with complete control.

It also applies to my throttle where I can have even less power going to my motor for optimum slow speed control.

It doesn't mean that I can't go fast with lots of power. It's just that I have the choice.

It is a bit of a chore to figure out all the settings and learn how to set them up, but I enjoy that kind of stuff.

 

[PCeBiker]

I get a big kick out of the name of the OP of this thread. Lol

I bet my T1000 could support him.
My bike is a beast too. Lol

 

[ovt]

You can't really disassemble the Das-Kit Controller. It's fully potted with material.
I ended up carefully picking all of it out to expose the wires to see where they went and to check the printing on the circuit board to find out the firing order of Das-Kit Controller so I could match up the wires to the KT controller to get it working.
Das-Kit likes to do everything upside down and backwards so people like me can't figure how things work.

View attachment 148633View attachment 148634View attachment 148635View attachment 148636View attachment 148637View attachment 148638View attachment 148639

It turned out that Das-Kit did reverse the firing order, so I had to swap both pairs of blue and yellow wires.
After doing that, my controller didn't work, so I put all the wires back to match up all the colors and that worked.
Seems wrong, but it's working now. Go figure??

So, I ended up really going to town with this install, but you or anyone else with an NCM ebike should have no problem because the motor cable should plug right in for you.

The Das-Kit Controller, by the way, is bullet proof!!
It really is well-built with "Practical German Engineering".
The KT controller is "cheap" in comparison but is also cheaper to purchase at about ⅓ of the price.


So a KT controller probably won't make much difference for you as far as power or top speed goes.
It kinda looks like your motor has a maximum speed/RPM of 45 kph and it has enough torque and power to take you to ~42 kph.
My motor (whatever the hell it is? ) probably has the same maximum speed/RPM but might have enough power to get to 45 kph with the few extra amps that the KT controller can provide.
I'm pretty sure that the Das-Kit CT5-I5 are 22 amp controllers when they are unlocked like yours.


Unfortunately, I won't be able to tell about the lag, or lack there of, with my controller because I didn't connect my PAS sensor (cadence sensor)

The reason I installed the KT controller was because I didn't like how the throttle operated.
I would just touch the throttle and the bike would go to full power until it was going at least 12 kph or whatever PAS mode speed it was at.
It wasn't a real throttle. It's just an on/off switch.

So I decided to install a twist throttle to try and get a more sensitive throttle, but it was exactly the same. Full power or nothing.

So then I bought an off-road display from New Zealand because it would allow me to turn the bike down to Eco mode and gave me adjustments for maximum speed and different throttle settings.
That too was exactly the same.
I turned the PAS off and set my throttle to 6 kph.
I would just touch the throttle, and the bike would launch so fast that it was going 12 kph before it even knew how fast it was going then would slow itself back down to 6 kph.
So I returned my off-road display for a refund (but I still lost over $100 on shipping and duty)

That's when I decided, "enough of this crap!" and ordered a KT controller.
That turned into a real adventure too with the motor cable issue, but everything is close to finished now and I should be ready for a test drive soon.

The KT controller has what they call "imitation torque control" which I think is a dumb way of saying that it is simply "power control" just like a real throttle on a car or motorcycle.
A little bit of throttle gives you a little bit of power, and a lot of throttle gives you a lot of power.

The same "power control" applies to PAS modes as well, with no stupid lag when you stop or start pedaling, and you control how much power the PAS kicks in with. Not just all or nothing with a waiting period.

If I had my way, I'd remove every computer chip on my ebike.
All I want is a battery, a motor, and a throttle.
That doesn't mean that I don't ever want to pedal. It just means that I don't want no stupid robot analyzing me and deciding for me what I want the bike to do.

I want to have that control, not a computer.

Sorry for the rant.
I have a real disdain for artificial intelligence. I think it's naturally stupid.

Have you tried using the codes to enter the in the secret menu? I have an L6 display and the 8088 code worked for me.

NCM Moscow Das Kit L7 code to modify setting

Hi,does anyone know what the code to change setting on the Das Kit L7 display? Thanks Sam

electricbikereview.com

 

[ovt]

You might be right, I didn't think about this that the das-kit controller can output 22 amps after unlocking the speed from the secret menu. Maybe someone else also ca confirm this. The only thing that bothers me about the controller is the lag it has. It takes about a second for the motor to start after you press the acceleration or the pedal, but this is probably a safety measure specially inserted electronically in the controller. It would be interesting to find out with which program we can program the controller at home.

 

[ovt]

48V x 22 amp controller=1056Watt peak power of the motor. Hmm

 

[ovt]

I found this so looks like you are 100% right about the das-kit CT5-I5 controller! It's an 22 amp at full power. https://etcycle.com/products/das-kit-ct5-i5-48v-22a

 

[PCeBiker]

Have you tried using the codes to enter the in the secret menu? I have an L6 display and the 8088 code worked for me.

NCM Moscow Das Kit L7 code to modify setting

Hi,does anyone know what the code to change setting on the Das Kit L7 display? Thanks Sam

electricbikereview.com

Yes, I could enter the code, but the C7 display for the T1000 was really limited and the power was locked to full power and not adjustable.
All I could adjust was wheel size and battery voltage.

The off-road display allowed for a lot more adjustment, but nothing would work to slow down or adjust the acceleration.