Indiegogo E-Bikes
- Thread starter Bcdavid
- Start date
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
I am a contributor to the Radrover. I bought an Easy Motion Neo Xtrem last year, and while it is a lot of fun (I am going to be selling it since I have contribute to the Radrover), when I bought a fat bike in the fall I fell in love with it. Initially I wanted to electrify it, but I have enjoyed riding my fat bike as-is, that I had decided to get another cheaper one (the one I have is a bikes direct boris X7). If I were to buy the parts to electrify a fat bike, it would run close to $1,200 from em3ev.com (reputable, only place I would probably consider an entire kit) - I would still have to lace the motor into a fat rim though, so that is the cost of the rim, and attempting DIY or paying the shop $90 (I asked how much they'd charge). Then of course, since I want to keep my current fat bike non-electric, I'd have to get another one! Either a Mongoose Vinson or Bikes Direct Gravity for another $500 - total cost $1700-1800.
I actually was all set to do just that, but then I saw the radrover on the weekend. I have been following the sondors bike as well (did actually consider it when it first came out, but being a single speed bike, and a basic battery size the specs just didn't suit being a fat bike, to me anyway).
There of course been some controversy over the sondors bike, so I did lots of research about who is running the Radrover. Mike Radenbaugh is a forum member over at endless-sphere, and has been making custom e-bikes as well as other electric vehicles for 7+ years. The parts he has sourced for the Radrover are all laid out up front, and he even provided me with all of the bike dimensions when I asked for them (might want to put some bigger tires on it!). If you look him up, you'll also find he has his masters in Transport Technology from a big university in CA (can't remember the name off the top of my head). He has also made no qualms about the bike being a chinese built venture - the difference here is that the parts have been chosen to suit the bike, and provide a reasonable distance with a quality battery setup. So I thought it over for a day and a half, and decided I didn't want to end up spending more money on what would essentially be the same bike (that I would be frankensteining together!).
I actually was all set to do just that, but then I saw the radrover on the weekend. I have been following the sondors bike as well (did actually consider it when it first came out, but being a single speed bike, and a basic battery size the specs just didn't suit being a fat bike, to me anyway).
There of course been some controversy over the sondors bike, so I did lots of research about who is running the Radrover. Mike Radenbaugh is a forum member over at endless-sphere, and has been making custom e-bikes as well as other electric vehicles for 7+ years. The parts he has sourced for the Radrover are all laid out up front, and he even provided me with all of the bike dimensions when I asked for them (might want to put some bigger tires on it!). If you look him up, you'll also find he has his masters in Transport Technology from a big university in CA (can't remember the name off the top of my head). He has also made no qualms about the bike being a chinese built venture - the difference here is that the parts have been chosen to suit the bike, and provide a reasonable distance with a quality battery setup. So I thought it over for a day and a half, and decided I didn't want to end up spending more money on what would essentially be the same bike (that I would be frankensteining together!).
jazz
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't invest that much money in crowd funding. When you give to these campaigns there are no guarantees OR REFUNDS!
Check out this site for Kickstarter scams (over $2.5 million) and Indiegogo has a higher rate of failures: http://kickscammed.com.
If I had to pick between the 2, I would choose Radrover over Sonders. Sonders has pretty weak motor at 350 watts, no gears and is heavy 56lb. It looks good but I think its gonna leave many people underwhelmed.
Check out this site for Kickstarter scams (over $2.5 million) and Indiegogo has a higher rate of failures: http://kickscammed.com.
If I had to pick between the 2, I would choose Radrover over Sonders. Sonders has pretty weak motor at 350 watts, no gears and is heavy 56lb. It looks good but I think its gonna leave many people underwhelmed.
Last edited:
Bcdavid
New Member
Took a chance and ordered a Rad Rover. They reached there goal in 6 days and are now shipping 45 days early. If anyone's interested they are still selling at the $999 price. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/radrover-electric-fat-bike#home
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
Interestingly (and this doesn't show up on the Radrover page itself), if you go to the indiegogo homepage and do a search for radrover, the link that populates the search is an image of the bike, with the name, and a 'seal' with the statement: All Orders Gauranteed to Ship. So, if I were to not get my bike, I think it would be pretty easy for my credit card company to process a charge back. Take a look: https://www.indiegogo.com/explore?filter_title=radrover
They have also replied to every question in their comment section, as well as personally to me directly twice via email and once at endless sphere where Mike is a member (the campaign owner). I'd like to think I'm a decent judge of character, I've had plenty of online interactions both buying and selling (mostly camera equipment) and everything I have seen points to the legitimacy of the Radrover bike. They have also not hid behind some great magnificent design team, openly stating they chose parts that they have found to be most important and beneficial for the bike type to be built in China and shipped to be sold (with a 1 year warranty) through their (already established) business in Seattle.
jazz
Well-Known Member
@pxpaulx....I would agree with you that Mike is legit and so is this campaign most likely. As for most other crowdfunding opportunities...definitely need to do your homework before contributing.
As far as guarantees from Indiegogo: Thier Terms state "All Contributions are made voluntarily and at the sole discretion and risk of the Contributor. Indiegogo does not guarantee that Contributions will be used as promised, that Campaign Owners will deliver Perks, or that the Campaign will achieve its goals. " https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms
As far as guarantees from Indiegogo: Thier Terms state "All Contributions are made voluntarily and at the sole discretion and risk of the Contributor. Indiegogo does not guarantee that Contributions will be used as promised, that Campaign Owners will deliver Perks, or that the Campaign will achieve its goals. " https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
That isn't surprising - I've also never really liked the up-front model of payment that indiegogo uses (vs kickstarter) - but in the end you end up waiting for whatever product it is your contributing to and waiting for some time frame whether you pay up front or at the end of a successful campaign. There are definitely big burns out there (I bought 4 stick-n-find bluetooth tracker stickers - absolute garbage waste of money), I have a solid mostly factually based sense that this won't be one of those campaigns
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
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- Piedmont Highlands
@pxpaulx your excitement is palpable! I looked in on the IGG campaign a few times and read comments and the update, sure looks good. Looks like you may have picked a winner, win and show. This may very well be a joy to watch and could go a long way for us here in building faith in the process. Good luck to all the 60 backers! 60+, that is. Keep us informed.
AaronB
New Member
What's up everyone! I'm one of the founders of the Wave Electric Bike on Indiegogo and wanted to just chime in saying that with Indiegogo there are 2 types of campaigns:
Fixed Funding- 100% of contributions get refunded if campaign doesn't hit the set goal (this is what we went with)
Flexible Funding- Contributions are given to campaign company even if the campaign doesn't hit their goal (Indiegogo just charges a higher commission if they don't hit their goal)
We went with fixed funding because if we don't hit our goal then we can't get enough orders to negotiate a low price with our suppliers and thus making the whole concept useless (unless people are willing to pay more for the Wave eBike).
If we reach our goal of $70,000 then we receive the funds from Indiegogo (minus their 4% fee and PayPal's fee) and we send all the order details to our manufacturers in China and they send off the shipments. Everything is ready to go from a manufacturing and shipping logistics perspective.
We are eBike lovers ourselves and basically wanted to do this because it's a joke how expensive so many eBikes cost and it only makes sense that if you get a huge group of people together to all order the same eBike at once that everyone would benefit from bulk pricing.
We want to be as transparent as possible, so post any questions or concerns and we'll do our best to answer any questions. Here's a link to our campaign:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wave-electric-bike/x/10100624
Fixed Funding- 100% of contributions get refunded if campaign doesn't hit the set goal (this is what we went with)
Flexible Funding- Contributions are given to campaign company even if the campaign doesn't hit their goal (Indiegogo just charges a higher commission if they don't hit their goal)
We went with fixed funding because if we don't hit our goal then we can't get enough orders to negotiate a low price with our suppliers and thus making the whole concept useless (unless people are willing to pay more for the Wave eBike).
If we reach our goal of $70,000 then we receive the funds from Indiegogo (minus their 4% fee and PayPal's fee) and we send all the order details to our manufacturers in China and they send off the shipments. Everything is ready to go from a manufacturing and shipping logistics perspective.
We are eBike lovers ourselves and basically wanted to do this because it's a joke how expensive so many eBikes cost and it only makes sense that if you get a huge group of people together to all order the same eBike at once that everyone would benefit from bulk pricing.
We want to be as transparent as possible, so post any questions or concerns and we'll do our best to answer any questions. Here's a link to our campaign:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wave-electric-bike/x/10100624
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
I had my LBS veil lifted last year, haha. I bought my easy motion neo xtrem at the big local e-bike store, great people to deal with, no qualms with the bike or their service. I did go in one day to talk about swapping out the tires, how much they would charge. The owner was out but the bike tech was there - he said he was a mechanic (makes sense having to deal with the electrical side of things - shop does a lot of renting as well) - he showed me what I needed to do, and got into how to straighten a wheel that was out of true - when he said he taught himself from youtube videos, I figured well, I can do that!
Since then I've done plenty of my own work. Swapped tires on two bikes, had to true the rear wheel of my e-bike when I did that (the new tire was fatter and needed to be set just right to fit), bought a non-electric fat bike from bikes direct - set up the front and rear derailleurs on that, swapped out the handlebars and headset and a few other things I can't recall now. Bikes aren't some huge mystery! With a little searching and watching a few videos it all becomes much easier
I was extremely close to buying from em3ev and having to build the motor into a fat rim myself (since they don't offer it)...well, that or pay the shop $90 bucks to do the same! Long story short, for the same cost of a motor/battery kit from em3 I am going to just be getting a whole new bike that is ready to run (the neo xtrem is going to be sold...possibly to another member at the moment - just not the bike for me, as fun as it has been).
jazz
Well-Known Member
Good lookin' campaign and the price is right! Not exactly my style but like the specs with 750watt motor and 48v battery. Upgrade options are very reasonable also. Good luck with meeting your goal!
tim estrada
New Member
I think you need to address the legality of a 28 mph electric bike. I have an email from you stating "the bike that is shipping to you will go 20mph due to fed. regs. but if you remove one wire the bike will go as advertised" isn't that flying under the radar? Where I live in so. Cal. it's considered a "Motorized vehicle" which requires a reg./license plate and a "moped style license" it also restricts you from riding on bike paths. So whats up with that Aron
