Increase the Speed - Giant Quick E questions

Catalitic

New Member
Greetings, I have a 2017 Giant Quick E, which I try to commute to work 3-4x per week on about 12 miles each way. I have logged about 1700 miles over the past year doing so. My initial plan was to run it stock for 2 years, with a goal to wear out the battery and then get a new one via warranty, as apparently if you start modifying things it voids the warranty. I recently ran a diagnostic on it after a year of use, and the battery is holding up great, and currently as about a 92% efficiency (need 60% for a replacement). I have gone through a rear cassette and some new pads, and almost killed myself when the bike seat bolt sheared off at 25 mph, but other than that it's been a good ride.

So, since I don't think I am going to be eligible for a battery replacement, I might as well let it rip now. Currently I can maintain about 24-27 mph on the flats depending on several factors. Ideally, I would like to be able to remove the top speed limiter and install some taller gearing with a goal of maintaining around 30-32 mph on the flats. My speculating is that a top speed limiter remover would be great, but based on how the bike reacts, peak torque doesn't happen at a higher cadence level... it has to be lower for the max support to kick in. Therefore to stretch it out correctly and really get a good level of assist into the higher speeds, think I would need both. The problem is the gearing appears a lot easier said than done and brings up the questions that I have:

- Has anyone managed to install a larger front chain ring on the quick e? It comes stock with a 48 tooth, and unfortunately it doesn't look like a lot of room is available to increase the size here. Ideally a 52 would bring the cadence to a comfortable 80 with an 11 tooth in the back. I would guess that a 50 tooth may fit, but a 52 just won't. Anyone have any input on this one?

- Second on the larger chainring - I brought up at the bike shop with the idea to put in a 5 MM spacer or so to move the main chainring out, so I could nestle in a 52 tooth up front. They looked at me like I was crazy for opting to mess up the chain line. I am not a pro, but it doesnt seem like it is a bid deal since I am doing all the riding in the bottom 1/2 of the gears anyway.

- Dropping down to a 10 tooth cog seems like another easy solution, but apparently they dont manufacture a 10 speed cassette with a 10 speed cog, so I would have to do a giant conversion to a SRAM XD or something along those lines to be able to fit an 11 speed. If that is the case, do I just need the conversion part, or do I need a whole new derailer, shifters, etc.? I was also thinking even if I was able to go down to the 10, would it work? I wore out my 11 speed cog in about 1500 miles.... not sure how long a 10 would last.

- So if the bigger up front doesn't work and the smaller back doesn't either... am I completely SOL? I was thinking if this is the case, I could get a smaller length crank, so although I pedal at a faster cadence, it isnt as bad. I also was thinking that since as previously mentioned I am not sure the system would delivery the required power at a higher pedal cadence. It seems like peak torque happens around 65-70 RPM, not the clown like 85-95 I would need to hit 30 mph on the 48/11 stock gearing.

Thanks for the input!!
 
It’s my experience that effort goes up exponentially when you get much above 22-23mph. Maintaining 32mph is huge. It’s not just gearing, it’s wattage and aerodynamics too. Your wattage and the battery. Do you have room for a battery twice the size?
 
I am fortunate to have a CCS in that it comes standardly with a 52T chainring. And I have gone up to 56T and could have gone 58T. But what I have allows a reasonable cadence at 28+ mph.

However, as said by rich c, the power required to go faster rises exponentially. I would be surprised if you can maintain 30 or 32 mph on the flat for any length of time. That requires like a kilowatt of power, I reckon. Where is it going to come from and for how long?
 
What do you mean? Like you don't physically have room because the chain ring will hit something??
Yeah, often chainring will interfere with the chain stay. Depending on how ghetto you get, maybe a 10lb sledge and a judicious whack might create enough clearance :)
 
What do you mean? Like you don't physically have room because the chain ring will hit something??

yes, there physically isnt much room without moving out the chain ring. i am just eyeballing it that i cant go up more than 2 teeth in the front without moving it out.

1530617729306.png
 
I am fortunate to have a CCS in that it comes standardly with a 52T chainring. And I have gone up to 56T and could have gone 58T. But what I have allows a reasonable cadence at 28+ mph.

However, as said by rich c, the power required to go faster rises exponentially. I would be surprised if you can maintain 30 or 32 mph on the flat for any length of time. That requires like a kilowatt of power, I reckon. Where is it going to come from and for how long?

yes well the peak torque output of the quick e is 80 nm/500w, and seems to occur around 60-70 RPM, or about 22-24 mph. when you continue to pedal faster to hit the 28 mph cutoff speed, i can feel the assist back off from peak when spinning above that cadence level. i can still maintain about 26-27 mph on flat my entire journey, but it just seems ready for another gear every time i get on, and especially so when heading downhill.

i am speculating that if i am able to gear higher and remove the 28 mph speed limiter, that i will have a peak torque assist available at a lower cadence and will be able to achieve a slightly higher cruise speed into the 30-32 arena. however, gearing up with this thing seems like an act of god. no 10 cogs on a 10x cassette, and there doesnt appear to be any room up front for a larger chainring without hitting the frame.
 
I do not understand why you have not unlocked it without more. 48 x 11 = 46 km / h cadence of 80 rpm .

You are inside the window of strength of the engine and also it is a drive unit of 500w of design

and you have a 36 x 36 that gives good climp capabilities in hight mode .


While the pneumatic grip climbs.

you have a 36 and 48 with 12 teeth difference and 12 chain links, you have to keep those 12 you would have to go to a 40/52 and lengthen the chain ..... you damage the eco mode because going with a 52 is difficult the bike weighs 24 kilos and climbing because a 40 x 36 is not better than a 36 x 36.


It could be that the rear derailleur did not tense so much chain

And longer than that deraillur I think it's gsg more big not.

The more pinions in the disc more torque you need for those speeds

You need a drive unit 750w.......1000w and battery
 
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At least the last sentence translated well.

I use a Schlumpf High Speed drive to provide the gear range (up to 150 gear inches) I need to pedal effectively at your target speeds on my hub bikes, not that one is an option for your mid drive.

With good human effort in the proper gear I have averaged 30 mph for 17.5 miles on fairly level ground at low altitude on a day with little wind but it used up my 520wh battery that I get double that range out of averaging in the low 20’s.

YMMV but it sounds like you need more raw motor power, as in watts which just hacking the firmware won’t necessarily do as it just resets the speed limiter, as well as gearing.
 
Compare ebikes with small powers with motorcycles ..... is a bad example because motorcycles maintain that torque at very high revolutions (hrpm) and carry gear boxes.
We understand that the yamaha can hold up to 100 rpm but that pair dies there and stops collaborating.


I mean with this that up to 45km / h with the original equipment was correct.
Only unlocked ....
If you want more speed .
the option is to modify the engine and it delivers power over 100 rpm by modifying the copper coil for a thinner wire or option 2 to increase power in watts of design so that it delivers power much more than those 100 rpm.

Increasing the power in watts of design allows you to put many teeth 52/62 teeth discs because you need more overall power to fight the overall weight, speed and aerodynamic drag of the set.



As you will understand it is very difficult to work with 52 teeth x 11 in flat terrain without assistance, (24 kilograms) not to say that having speed a small positive gradient on the road will quickly lose speed. Even in eco mode the problem would continue if for some reason you could not use the 36 teeth.


The top speed is just a concept ... the speed is to have a good average speed in all gradients of the road.

Not for having more top speed ... you will have a better time.

is more you will force much more your knees and you will not have a good average speed in that stretch of positive gradient, because it forces you at least to change gear to something much more comfortable but while you adapt to choose and while you do not hit the selected the speed decays unless you already have memorized.
I have a yamaha trekking with less power than your giant 250w vs 500w and I can tell you that the 48 x 11 I use it only for low cadence on flat terrain and with eco + and eco mode = 115w / 250w although it is all unlocked until 65km / h where I really changed it to 45 km / h, why?
because where I take juice at 48 x 11 is on the downhills of the road where I get up to 62 km / h and on level using hight mode I reach 40 / 45km / h but at the time I take a positive gradient of road that speed is lower ..... if I need to maintain that speed even with a +3 road gradient I would need more engine power.


Putting a 52 is not better, it gets worse on positive road gradients.



If you have a breakdown on the 36 t disk, you would only have 52 and it is more complicated to play with it and more without assistance



You will not get more range with the battery.


You want to convert it to this.


It only has a single plate of 48t and is a 800w of engine design

https://en.m1-sporttechnik.de/das-spitzing-plus-r-pedelec/

And it reaches 75 km / h but giving 140 rpm if you want to arrive with less rpm, bigger disk and more engine power, but much harder to move with the system disconnected.



.
 
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I have the same bike. It is a great hill climber. tops out at 28 with ease. With a lot more effort I have gotten to 31.2 mph, but for a minute or so. The wind resistance starts at about 20 mph and takes more and more power to compensate in order to increase speed. If you truly want to achieve the avg. speeds you want with nominal increases in power and maintaining battery range, aerodynamics will be key. Think about the human body and a bike frame; what is its terminal velocity if the two were dropped out of a plan. What shape would get that velocity higher? Maybe you can develop an ultralight carbon framed shell is the shape of an airplane drop tank.

Here is a pretty wild ride.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Maybe something like this.

varna-pir-20103.jpg


Dimpling like a golf ball might help.
Vorttice10.jpg


It is a worthy endeavor, Good Luck =D
 
The wind resistance starts at about 20 mph and takes more and more power to compensate in order to increase speed. If you truly want to achieve the avg. speeds you want with nominal increases in power and maintaining battery range, aerodynamics will be key.

Zzipper has been making fairing for bicycles since the late 70's; I remember seeing their ads in Bike World magazine. They are more commonly seen on recumbents, but they make them for upright bikes as well.
 
Assuming you are successful in getting the gearing right (70-80 rpm cadence at 30 mph) you still have to contend with the actual power required to maintain at 30 mph which is close to 700 watts.

If you have strong legs and can sustain 100 watts continuous, the motor has to shoulder the other 600 watts. And that power has to come from the battery. With the motor efficiency of 80-85% efficiency, the battery has to produce 705 watts continuous output.

The SyncDrive is spec'ed at 250 watts nominal and 500 watts peak output. If you pedal hard at 100 watts plus the motor's peak output of 500 watts (@highest assist level), totaling 600 watts then 28 mph is doable on the flat road, which is consistent with the manufacturer's claim and also in agreement with the ebike simulator from Grin technologies (the black curve represents the power required to maintain at different speeds on a level road).
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulato...MGRIN2705&cont=C20&hp=0&batt=B3612_MH&throt=0

In simple term, you can still do 30 mph if it's a down hill, otherwise, the added gears will not be helpful on the level road.
 
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Greetings. I have a 2019 quick E+ and am wondering if others notice this. When I am climbing hills, the assist seems to top out at 10mph. On flats and especially on a very low degree uphill slope, I find it hard to get over 15 mph. Perhaps my motor is tuned differently? I've gone through the gears, various assist levels, etc. Any help from those with experience would be great in understanding how to get some more speed on those flat and minor hills.

Thanks
 
Greetings. I have a 2019 quick E+ and am wondering if others notice this. When I am climbing hills, the assist seems to top out at 10mph. On flats and especially on a very low degree uphill slope, I find it hard to get over 15 mph. Perhaps my motor is tuned differently? I've gone through the gears, various assist levels, etc. Any help from those with experience would be great in understanding how to get some more speed on those flat and minor hills.

Thanks
You are doing yourself a disservice by tacking this on the end of a post that started in July. I suggest you start a new post, either here or on the Giant sub forum. Take it back to the dealer. They will tell you that you aren't pedaling hard enough, or diagnose a problem. These bikes are pedal ASSIST. Put the bike on maximum assist, then shift like you would a traditional bike.
 
Thanks for the information. I was hoping for some information from an experienced user and found some... I did take it in today and the problem was solved. It was never taken out of demo mode. Now I know. Thanks again.
 
Thanks for the information. I was hoping for some information from an experienced user and found some... I did take it in today and the problem was solved. It was never taken out of demo mode. Now I know. Thanks again.
That would do it! Prepare to be amazed. I payed very close attention to how I was riding on the flats this morning. In Eco + mode and in the third to highest gear. I was able to sustain 17 - 18 MPH no problem. I am very happy your problem had a very simple solution. =D
 
That would do it! Prepare to be amazed. I payed very close attention to how I was riding on the flats this morning. In Eco + mode and in the third to highest gear. I was able to sustain 17 - 18 MPH no problem. I am very happy your problem had a very simple solution. =D
When I tested it after the "fix,", I will have to be very careful as I adjust to my new speeds! At least I had a good workout for the first 125 miles riding it! Thanks for the speed and gear samples. 28 mph is a good top speed for me on flats. Now I am off to see how that long slow, but not too steep, incline handles now!
 
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