Hydra - Kindernay vs. Rohloff?

[scrambler]

What about the Sturmey 3 speed? Would that be the most durable of the 3 IGH?

I believe the Rohloff or Kindernay are stronger that the Sturmey archer, but someone with actual experience may be better placed to confirm.
And the range is way more suited for an electric bike that you may want to pedal at higher speeds.
But is is also way more expensive....

 

[scrambler]

Do you also swap front and rear brakes to match motorcycles, putting front on the right?

I am always open to learning new things, so I got used to that one using regular bikes
The side for throttle and gear is equally not a huge deal, I am sure I would get used to the reverse usage.
But if I am going to replace the thumb throttle by an half twist, I might as well put it where it will be the easiest for me

 

[scout592]

What about the Sturmey 3 speed? Would that be the most durable of the 3 IGH?

I would also like some comments not only about durability but how this handles an occasional steep hill on paved roads. I don't think I can do the additional $1,000+ for the other igh. Thanks for any help especially if you have used the Sturmey.

 

[voidedwarranty]

I would also like some comments not only about durability but how this handles an occasional steep hill on paved roads. I don't think I can do the additional $1,000+ for the other igh. Thanks for any help especially if you have used the Sturmey.

Yeah I don't have first hand experience but there is a lot of talk about this Sturmey Archer and how durable and simple it is. Especially gear 2 which is 1:1 and is physically one piece with the shaft. People have called it indestructible.

Watt Wagons told me last night gear 1 can go to at least 15mph. They also said not to use throttle in 3rd

I've also read people say that the more power a motor has the less gears you really need. Which makes sense to a certain degree. I've lost track of how many people I hear say they skip gears or always start off in 3rd or leave it in 5th all day. I mean does a motor capable of 200nm really need 11 speeds?

 

[Deacon Blues]

I've also read people say that the more power a motor has the less gears you really need. Which makes sense to a certain degree. I've lost track of how many people I hear say they skip gears or always start off in 3rd or leave it in 5th all day. I mean does a motor capable of 200nm really need 11 speeds?

This depends on how you ride. I usually have a pedalling cadence that is the same at a variety of speeds. The difference is what gear I'm in. I can pedal at the same cadence at 10mph, 15mph, and 20mph by using the gears and power levels.
Personally, I wouldn't want less than 10 or 11 gears.

 

[scrambler]

You definitely do not need as many gear with an E-Bike, but you need high torque resistance, and if you do both MTB and speed, you want range, and this is where things get complicated.
To get high torque resistance and range you need Rohloff or Kindernay, but they have way more gears than you need.

The ideal gear box for an E-bike would be a Pinion C1.9XR, range comparable to Rohloff, even more torque resistance than Rohloff, and only 9 gears.
But is is a gearbox, not an IGH so would require a different design .....

 

[pushkar]

This depends on how you ride. I usually have a pedalling cadence that is the same at a variety of speeds. The difference is what gear I'm in. I can pedal at the same cadence at 10mph, 15mph, and 20mph by using the gears and power levels.
Personally, I wouldn't want less than 10 or 11 gears.

An 11 speed cassette (say 11-42T or 11-46t) is around ~400 to 420% gear range.

Is that gear range typically enough for most use cases? Just want to understand the sweet spot of gear range for most uses.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Scrambler, I agree that a pinion gearbox would be a great combo with an ebike motor.

Pushkar, 11 speeds is enough for me with my Cannondale Lefty 3 (Bosch gen 4 motor). The only change I want to make is to swap my front chain wring to a slightly larger one, to increase my top speed while riding down slight gradients.

 

[reed scott]

Scrambler, I agree that a pinion gearbox would be a great combo with an ebike motor.

Pushkar, 11 speeds is enough for me with my Cannondale Lefty 3 (Bosch gen 4 motor). The only change I want to make is to swap my front chain wring to a slightly larger one, to increase my top speed while riding down slight gradients.

Whatayawannabet a 2300 watt ultra with a 42 tooth chain ring can roll you down hill a LOT faster than you wanna go?

 

[scrambler]

If anyone wants to simulate gear speed and cadence, I made an excel sheet that calculates the speed at various gears for a given cadence, as well as the cadence at various speed for given gears.
you can get it there, and download it using File > Save as

Speed and gear ratio.xlsx

1drv.ms

You can change the wheel size, sprockets, gear ratios.... and play with changing cadence or gearing to see where it gets you.

 

[smorgasbord]

An 11 speed cassette (say 11-42T or 11-46t) is around ~400 to 420% gear range.

Is that gear range typically enough for most use cases? Just want to understand the sweet spot of gear range for most uses.

An 11-46 is fine, BUT for a bike with as much capability as the hydra people may want to both ride on-road at reasonably high speeds AND ride off-road, including steep inclines. That means a big front chainring (say 48 tooth), but then you need a big cog in the rear for low speed climbs. SRAM makes an 11-50 and now a 10-52. With something like that, you can indeed do it all.
Those are 12 speed drivetrains, but SRAM's X01 chain was tested to last the longest of any 9/10/11/12 speed chain. I'd recommend the GX grouping.

Note that to get the 10 tooth high gear you'll need the SRAM specific XD hub. But, going for the 11-50 means you can use the standard splined hub, you just don't get that high fast on-road gear.