How to start on a steep hill

[reed scott]

Both my bikes will start up a hill just fine from stop. I use the throttle if it's really bad. I often use the throttle just to mount my bike. But you have to be in a proper gear. You have to be able to feather the throttle. If you get yourself stuck in too high a gear it's no problem to shift to a lower gear if you have a kickstand. Without a kickstand .... yeah that's problematical. If you are really stuck and no kickstand you can shift one gear at a time, from off the bike lift the bike an inch, and work the crank with your left foot. You won't hurt the derailleur if you do just one gear at a crack. Pain in the butt if you have to go 3 or 4 cogs but it works.

 

[TomD]

Kickstand? lol wut? You know you can use walk mode to easily cycle thru gears too? I use it all the time when testing derailleur adjustment on the stand. Never had to do it in the wild to downshift but I think it would be way easier than working the crank with your left foot.

 

[Johnny]

I dearly love my Hydra but the Ultra has one particular shortcoming that always makes me a little jealous of my friends on their underpowered euro spec bikes with almost immediate support from a dead stop on steep technical trails. I spin the rear tire or tap the brakes on a switch back, I’m stopped and it’s very difficult to get started again. Sometimes it takes more than a quarter turn of the cranks before the assist kicks in. On a steep section I am pushing so hard to move the heavy bike the wheel spins when the assist kicks in, the rear of the bike moves sideways and I lose my balance. as the line of guys behind becomes convinced I I really don’t know how to ride.
Trying to get started I discovered if I press the - button the bike will start slowly in walk mode. As the bike starts to move let go of the button, the bike will continue much like after you stop peddling for about 2 second. If you are applying minimal pressure to the pedals the assist will kick in just as the walk mode fades out and I essentially get a running start. As the assist kicks in I add pressure but not enough to spin the wheel.

Try a larger rear cog so that you can not spin out as soon as you step on the pedals. That ultra should be able to start on much larger cogs compared to low powered mainstream offerings.


Also don't count on trail access, I was on a biking trail which is wide enough for a truck, riding my low powered bosch when a ranger stopped next to me with his pick up truck and immediately told me that ebikes are not allowed on the trail. He let me ride back for that time but told me that he will give me a ticket if I ride an ebike again on that trail. When I told him that I only used eco or off (which is the truth) and I could take off the battery, he said if he let me ride then others will come and it will be an "ebike fest" before you know it.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Area of the country that is happening Johnay?

 

[reed scott]

Kickstand? lol wut? You know you can use walk mode to easily cycle thru gears too? I use it all the time when testing derailleur adjustment on the stand. Never had to do it in the wild to downshift but I think it would be way easier than working the crank with your left foot.

Talking about being stuck on a steep hill in the wrong gear. As to the kickstand part I assumed people knew I meant kickstand and walk mode.

 

[Jon A]

If you are really stuck and no kickstand you can shift one gear at a time, from off the bike lift the bike an inch, and work the crank with your left foot. You won't hurt the derailleur if you do just one gear at a crack. Pain in the butt if you have to go 3 or 4 cogs but it works.

I've found, a bit easier than that, is making use of the freewheel in your crank. Click a gear, backpedal so the pedal on your side is to the rear of the bike, then lift the bike by the pedal. The rear wheel will spin and the gear will shift as soon as the rear wheel leaves the ground. Click another gear and repeat....

Of course with a kickstand it's much easier (when the terrain allows)--just tip the bike, use throttle or walk mode and click through the gears.

 

[reed scott]

Acme was going up a steep hill, I assumed he was already on the correct gear .
You are right on being stuck in the wrong gear on a steep hill.
KICKSTAND would be a great option for the Hydra. To reset the chain on correct gear. The "delayed assist " is still an issue.
A 50 lb bike plus rider weight even on the biggest gear on a steep hill, if pedal assist is delayed by a rotation of the crank it still would be difficult for the rider to get the bike rolling again.

My Hydra has no delay. Needs no turn of the crank.

 

[scrambler]

My Hydra has no delay. Needs no turn of the crank.

As it should if programmed properly using torque sensing

 

[Dallant]

Hi , I'm just checking this thread if Acme has fixed the "delayed assist " on his Hydra.
I was ticked off last night when some Trek owner, insinuating that he has never encountered a problem with his bike.
My thinking got derailed and I came up with zero intelligible replies.

Anyway it looks like the conversation is back on track.

You were very easily derailed. I’ve not had a problem getting up a hill nor do I need or want a throttle.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You were very easily derailed. I’ve not had a problem getting up a hill nor do I need or want a throttle.

I don't think the girl scout hiking trails that you ride are what is being discussed here. Though they do make for scenic photos.
Since you have your bike now for what... 2 months... I suggest you get on a steep, root and rock strewn incline and stop in the middle... then try starting from there before you speak with such authority.

 

[Jon A]

I’ve not had a problem getting up a hill nor do I need or want a throttle.

I agree with Gionnirocket, you need to try some tougher hills. I've made it up/through numerous places with my E06 that a bike without a throttle simply would have no chance of making. I too thought I'd never need a throttle and figured I might remove it from the bike when I got it...until I actually used it in the field. It simply opens the door to getting to a lot more places.

And I'm pretty sure a whopping 85 nm would not have been enough for some of these climbs, at least not without a tiny chainring which would limit the top speed on easier terrain.

 

[Dallant]

I agree with Gionnirocket, you need to try some tougher hills. I've made it up/through numerous places with my E06 that a bike without a throttle simply would have no chance of making. I too thought I'd never need a throttle and figured I might remove it from the bike when I got it...until I actually used it in the field. It simply opens the door to getting to a lot more places.

And I'm pretty sure a whopping 85 nm would not have been enough for some of these climbs, at least not without a tiny chainring which would limit the top speed on easier terrain.

A. Agreeing with him is a joke.
B. The idea that you’re suggesting is that youre on massive hills is subject to video proof so you can show your friends how THEY SHOULD START UP A MASSIVE HILL.

 

[Jon A]

A. Agreeing with him is a joke.

Yes, on you.

B. The idea that you’re suggesting is that youre on massive hills is subject to video proof so you can show your friends how THEY SHOULD START UP A MASSIVE HILL.

While I'm sure it would be great fun to spend my time and money on such trivial things as getting a proper video setup and posting videos, if/when I do that it certainly won't be to satisfy a troll on the internet. Since you made the initial claim of never needing a throttle, it's really on you to explain your technique for riding through sagebrush where the plants are close enough together they're nearly touching, through narrow ruts that are a foot deep or more on one side, traverse extremely steep sidehills without pedal-striking on the uphill side, etc, long before you ask for "proof" from anybody else.

I do have a couple of pics so you can see what the terrain looks like:

And the dirt on hillsides like that is the kind your feet sink several inches into when you walk on it, so if you don't have fat tires, good luck...but that's a different subject.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yes, on you.


While I'm sure it would be great fun to spend my time and money on such trivial things as getting a proper video setup and posting videos, if/when I do that it certainly won't be to satisfy a troll on the internet. Since you made the initial claim of never needing a throttle, it's really on you to explain your technique for riding through sagebrush where the plants are close enough together they're nearly touching, through narrow ruts that are a foot deep or more on one side, traverse extremely steep sidehills without pedal-striking on the uphill side, etc, long before you ask for "proof" from anybody else.

I do have a couple of pics so you can see what the terrain looks like:

View attachment 97739

View attachment 97740


View attachment 97741


And the dirt on hillsides like that is the kind your feet sink several inches into when you walk on it, so if you don't have fat tires, good luck...but that's a different subject.

Guys listen to him.. He knows what he's talking about.
He's not only riding a NAME BRAND mtb for a full two months now... But he proudly earned the START UP A MASSIVE HILL merit badge in that short time as well.

 

[Dallant]

Yes, on you.


While I'm sure it would be great fun to spend my time and money on such trivial things as getting a proper video setup and posting videos, if/when I do that it certainly won't be to satisfy a troll on the internet. Since you made the initial claim of never needing a throttle, it's really on you to explain your technique for riding through sagebrush where the plants are close enough together they're nearly touching, through narrow ruts that are a foot deep or more on one side, traverse extremely steep sidehills without pedal-striking on the uphill side, etc, long before you ask for "proof" from anybody else.

I do have a couple of pics so you can see what the terrain looks like:

View attachment 97739

View attachment 97740


View attachment 97741


And the dirt on hillsides like that is the kind your feet sink several inches into when you walk on it, so if you don't have fat tires, good luck...but that's a different subject.

You’re wasting your time. Teach all your buddies how to properly use their bikes. Amazing how clean your bike and tires are for being in such horrible dirt.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You’re wasting your time. Teach all your buddies how to properly use their bikes. Amazing how clean your bike and tires are for being in such horrible dirt.

Yeah! You don't even know how to take proper mtb photos! You have to take them after a heavy rain so even though you're ridding the bunny_trail you can post tens of pics covered in earth like a true TREK'er!
I'm sorry but those quicksand pics just wouldn't make the Trek brochure.

 

[Acme]

Did you order your Hydra with restricted or unrestricted throttle? I really like the way the restricted throttle is programmed on my Archon X1. At first I didn't like it because it blends in power much slower than the unrestricted throttle but I found it's really nice to use from a stop when the knees are hurting and I forgot to downshift enough. Might be too much power for your scenario but seems to me you could program it down to do just what you want. I'm a little surprised walk mode gives you enough power to get started.

Throttle is restricted but still to abrupt of twitchy. The bike is 65lbs so even in first gear I am pushing had to move it from a dead stop on a hill. I don’t know if there is a way to give a little more juce to the throttle

 

[Merle Nelson]

Hmmmmm.... I try not to stir the poop but,....

Acme your use of the words "abrupt", "twitchy", "pushing had (hard?)" do not fit with the description I see Pushkar give on youtube of the Archon X1 controller or other users descriptions I read of its use.

I know little about it first hand but suspect the controller needs to have its parameters adjusted and that you are expecting far too little from it.

 

[BarnBoy]

I am amazed at how many non-WW bikes and trinkets get posted a WW forum…..
-BB

 

[Johnny]

Area of the country that is happening Johnay?

Missed this one. Bay area, mission peak.
But it is not the only trail. Majority of the trails have the same no-ebike restriction.

I was thinking about some low powered fazua system but I guess I will switch to regular mtb's.

On the other hand if there were no restrictions I would have liked to try hydra, seems like a well built powerful ebike especially with the controller.