Jeffrios
Member
Yes, thank you. I remember seeing that in Tora's video. I'll probably do the same thing like I do with my car. Keep track of kWh used, or in this case, keep track of Wh used and get a running average.
How to Best Charge Battery for Longest Life
- Thread starter Eglon
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- battery maintenance
Yes, thank you. I remember seeing that in Tora's video. I'll probably do the same thing like I do with my car. Keep track of kWh used, or in this case, keep track of Wh used and get a running average.
Sorry if this has been asked before, but there's a lot of posts here: What is most accurate volts reading after a ride? The immediate reading when done with a ride , or waiting an hour or so? For example, if I finish a ride and the display shows 51.0v , about an hour later it shows 51.2 and stays at that level. Except by the next day it may rise again even higher to 51.3 So is the latter the most accurate?
tomjasz
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Most accurate reading is with a multimeter. If you're reading with an on bike meter it can well be off. But in the end a 0.3 difference isn't a worry, IMO!
Fran Fabrizio
Member
Yes, you can use the same charger (Cycle Satiator) or a different one (I use the Luna charger) with other batteries to charge to less than 100%. There's more info a few posts earlier on this thread.
Reid
Well-Known Member
Cycle Satiator is a $300 marvelously intelligent beast of a charger you do not need and will not get with a 48V Juiced bike purchase.
I'm currently about to order the following for an 80% charge on the stock 12.8 ah battery. I just want to verify it will work prior to pulling the trigger. (I asked the question in another thread).
https://lunacycle.com/48v-3amp-luna-mini-charger/
https://lunacycle.com/xt60-male-to-barrel-male-plug-adapter/
https://lunacycle.com/48v-3amp-luna-mini-charger/
https://lunacycle.com/xt60-male-to-barrel-male-plug-adapter/
Chris Hammond
Well-Known Member
That is all you need.
philerooski
New Member
Yes
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
FYI, Tora says that the 48V 2A charger Juiced supplies with the bike charges to 95%. On my bike, it is consistently within +- 0.2V of this figure.
@Adams A few points:
- Why would you think that Juiced (aka Jude ) would provide you a more expensive charger?
- If you order the 52v 21aH battery, you in fact do get, what is arguably, the best electric bike charger available today that can have a charge profile to keep your battery in the range of above 20% and below 80% for maximum battery "life".
- Juiced DOES Offer a more expensive charger on their accessories page that can be configured for 80% charge (slow or fast to 80%)
- Juiced DOES offer a way to set the bike to not discharge the battery below 20%
- "80% is what I read is best" --
- If by "best" you mean getting the most useful number of charge cycles out of your battery then there are two parts -- don't discharge below 20% while underload (while biking) and don't charge to full and leave it there more than a short while.
- Current research shows that regularly charging to just 80% while also not discharging below 20%, AND not charging at max power provides significant increase to how many charge cycles your battery can handle and thus to useful battery "life"
- "Best" for you might be different, your battery size + your ability to buy or not buy a new battery every 2-3 years will determine what "best" means.
What Juiced is offering is a choice of chargers (for 48v battery packs) with an option to get a better charger. Not many e-bike companies are offering the choice.
Regarding
I believe they are using a "multimeter" to measure the voltage of the pack.
How to safely use the multimeter to measure the voltage while charging.. I am still looking for a video on how you would do that.
<Warning below this is speculation, I am not an electrician or an EE>
Right now I suspect you would charge the battery for X time (say 4 hrs), unplug it, use multimeter to see total Volts in the battery. Divide the total volts by the number of batteries in the pack to get a V per battery. Compare that to "nominal" rating for the battery to determine % charge
I.e. I'll make a spreadsheet.
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
If you look at the charts, for instance on Battery University, charging to 80% gives a decent balance between usability (you want the battery to perform adequately) and longevity (you don't want to replace it very often.)
But any amount that you charge below 100% gives benefits in longevity. Not as much as 80%, but hundreds more charge cycles (all other things being equal) than if you charge to 100%.
So if longevity is top priority, 80% is a good balance. You do lose some performance, but maybe not enough to matter to you. That's a personal thing.
I myself like having that extra performance -- partly how long it powers my bike, but also how well. It's a distinct difference from a freshly charged battery to one that's run 20 miles or so. So for me, the 95% charge level is a great trade-off. Some increased longevity, higher quality performance.
Important to remember that energy capacity and battery voltage are not linear. There is more energy capacity at the top end of the charge then at the bottom. This is why performance seems to tank faster, the lower the voltage gets, and why my bike is zippier at 95% charge than at 80%.
This means that the stock Juiced Bikes charger meets my needs very well.
But any amount that you charge below 100% gives benefits in longevity. Not as much as 80%, but hundreds more charge cycles (all other things being equal) than if you charge to 100%.
So if longevity is top priority, 80% is a good balance. You do lose some performance, but maybe not enough to matter to you. That's a personal thing.
I myself like having that extra performance -- partly how long it powers my bike, but also how well. It's a distinct difference from a freshly charged battery to one that's run 20 miles or so. So for me, the 95% charge level is a great trade-off. Some increased longevity, higher quality performance.
Important to remember that energy capacity and battery voltage are not linear. There is more energy capacity at the top end of the charge then at the bottom. This is why performance seems to tank faster, the lower the voltage gets, and why my bike is zippier at 95% charge than at 80%.
This means that the stock Juiced Bikes charger meets my needs very well.
Reid
Well-Known Member
Me too. Am very happy with the stock charger, silent and capable and reliable.
I bought this bike to be always ready to roll the full distance its battery can provide even though I never use the battery's full capacity in my little errand runs or exercise runs. I rarely run over 20 miles at a session, then it is home again and =on the charger=
Wish the makers would use a BMS set to top the battery up only to a lower peak voltage per cell, to give the vaunted hundreds of extra charge cycles that sub-4.2V per cell is said to offer. But they don't. Well, heck. I am going to just fully charge all the time and that way never worry about the pack getting out of balance.
If it lasts a full year and still gives somewhat reasonably near the 500Wh useable energy it gave me two months ago when it was nearly new, I will say hooray for that. Will confess all deterioration of the battery noted when it is a year old.
Chris Hammond
Well-Known Member
I have yet to fully charge my 52V battery, I really only plan on doing so every other month or so for BMS balancing. I will report on performance at a full charge. I am a bit curious if the extra volts will allow the controller to provide any assistance over 34 mph. This seems to be the limit at 80%. I have gone faster downhill but the controller shows it is only pulling < 30 watts, in spite of hard pedal effort and regardless of setting.
I am worried that there is a misunderstanding of the reported battery life (in charge cycles) vs capacity implicit in a number of peoples post here.
This is a premise regarding # of charges for lifecycle that seems to be true for 99% of the e-bikes companies out there.
As I have ordered a Juice bike and this is their forum let me point out this implicit premise with the following question using the following Juiced setup/premise:
If you answered "approximately 60% capacity", then your expectations of battery lifecycle are properly set.
If you were thinking that 600 charges = a loss of 5-10% capacity....
So a Cycle Satiator is a charger that can be used to baby your battery pack. If you baby it, don't charge too fast, don't charge to high, don't discharge to low, don't store at high power.. then you can slow down that battery degradation.
So "600 charge cycles to 60%" means that all things being equal and using the provided 48V charger then after 600 charges your battery pack will have degraded below 60% max capacity.
Note: This 600 to 60% isn't specific to Juiced bikes. From what I can tell, this is more based on the published lifecycle behaviors of the induvial batteries.
I just don't want someone to get the Cycle Satiator and come back here 3 years later complaining that after 1200 charges they are only getting 76% capacity.
If you all knew this already, then I apologize for wasting your time.
This is a premise regarding # of charges for lifecycle that seems to be true for 99% of the e-bikes companies out there.
As I have ordered a Juice bike and this is their forum let me point out this implicit premise with the following question using the following Juiced setup/premise:
For the RCS with 48V battery, Juiced shows "600 charge cycles to 60%"
- Therefore after ~600 charge cycles with the provided stock charger, how much usable capacity should you expect your battery to have?
If you answered "approximately 60% capacity", then your expectations of battery lifecycle are properly set.
If you were thinking that 600 charges = a loss of 5-10% capacity....
..Then you were thinking this was a Tesla where they sell you a Capacity X but provide you with a larger battery because they enforce the capacity at the bottom and the top - thus after a few years most Tesla's have lost less than 10% of max capacity.
So a Cycle Satiator is a charger that can be used to baby your battery pack. If you baby it, don't charge too fast, don't charge to high, don't discharge to low, don't store at high power.. then you can slow down that battery degradation.
So "600 charge cycles to 60%" means that all things being equal and using the provided 48V charger then after 600 charges your battery pack will have degraded below 60% max capacity.
Note: This 600 to 60% isn't specific to Juiced bikes. From what I can tell, this is more based on the published lifecycle behaviors of the induvial batteries.
I just don't want someone to get the Cycle Satiator and come back here 3 years later complaining that after 1200 charges they are only getting 76% capacity.
If you all knew this already, then I apologize for wasting your time.
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
I'm glad to hear that. I plan to get the 52V battery at some point, hopefully not too far in the future.
tomjasz
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This is where a Satiator shines, being able to charge multiple voltages. I have some very well used batteries that are still performing well enough to be considered reliable after 4 years.
Is this legit for current Juiced batteries ?
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