How I failed to get my bike diagnosed with the Diagnosis Tool

[eagamer80]

Well, I just wanted for you to know how frustrated I am for not being able to diagnose my bike, even by getting the tool myself and not able to do anything with it, was completely useless. This is the story:
As I am frustrated with the famous cut-off at 25 km/h (imagine you guys in the US being cut of at 15 mph when you ride, imagine the awesomeness), I asked almost everywhere here in Sweden about having the bike diagnosed to be able to remove that limitation. I asked all bike stores that sell Turbo bikes, nobody had a clue or had no interest in doing this. They even said it was illegal. Then I replied to them: "And how the f*** are selling Turbo S bikes or Stromer ones then?".
More ironic is that the people who sold me the tool (I will not put their names here for the moment) were not able to communicate with Specialized in order to get access to the software.
It's surprising and disappointing how many stores sell e-bikes but then they lack in giving a proper support. They have nor the knowledge or training to do any kind of support with this advanced e-bikes. But I think this is not only the fault of the bike stores, but also Specialized whom do not demand or give any training to their resellers.
There was only 1 person in the US who was able to answer me properly and have certain expertise in diagnosing and repairing Turbo bikes. I am talking about this person, but sadly he had not access to the tool (he lost the software and Specialized was not responsive in getting a new one for him).
I am actually talking in using the tool as these guys from germany are doing (link). It doesn't look that complicated, but of course, you have to know what you're doing. Even more, most of the problems that most people are having here (eg. lights on when charging the bike directly on the bike port), is solvable by updating the firmware of the battery. Who will do that if you don't have a bike store who can attend to this need properly?
I think next time I will aim for a Stromer bike, even though the Turbo S could be a good alternative. I would prefer to use something with a better representation here in Europe than Specialized which I think they fail (another example: 3 weeks to change 1 spoke, 3 WEEKS!!! -spoke special size, not available here in Sweden). If you contact directly to Specialized they send you straight to your reseller, which they say "I don't know". So I am in a vicious circle.
Thanks for reading.

 

[ebikerider]

They even said it was illegal.

Well they were correct. For an e-bike to be classified as a standard bicycle in Sweden it has to have a maximum assisted speed of 25kph and a maximum nominal motor power of no more than 250 watts. I fail to see how this is the bike shop's problem?

 

[eagamer80]

Well they were correct. For an e-bike to be classified as a standard bicycle in Sweden it has to have a maximum assisted speed of 25kph and a maximum nominal motor power of no more than 250 watts. I fail to see how this is the bike shop's problem?

I called my insurance and they said anything that goes between 25km/h and 50km/h could be declared as a moped without breaking any law. Even Specialized send you a form within the bike manual that you authorize your reseller to make the change (you sign it, your responsibility).
They even sell Turbo S and Stromer bikes and you dont have to register them with any plate number or anything special (or it means that you pay more and you are above the law?).
So, I dont see how this is illegal.
My claim is, regardless of the lock/unlock limitation, resellers have little training on Specialized e-bikes. If they sell this bikes, they should have all available tools in order to solve your problem or concern. Otherwise, don't sell this things.

 

[Ann M.]

@eagamer80, getting adequate training to all of the electric bike dealers is a problem, no matter where you live; Europe or the US. Particularly with some models like yours that requires a very high level of technical knowledge. The manufacturers need to create a better system of consistent training on repairs and not just on selling.

 

[Taipan]

I called my insurance and they said anything that goes between 25km/h and 50km/h could be declared as a moped without breaking any law. Even Specialized send you a form within the bike manual that you authorize your reseller to make the change (you sign it, your responsibility).
They even sell Turbo S and Stromer bikes and you dont have to register them with any plate number or anything special (or it means that you pay more and you are above the law?).
So, I dont see how this is illegal.
My claim is, regardless of the lock/unlock limitation, resellers have little training on Specialized e-bikes. If they sell this bikes, they should have all available tools in order to solve your problem or concern. Otherwise, don't sell this things.

Hej eagamer80 !

I just went through the process of buying a demo BH Nitro City Speedbike in Stockholm at Outpost in Solna and insure it.

The person you talked to at the insurance company was probably not familiar with the 2016 regulations: you must provide a european COC (Certificate Of Conformity) for a Speedbike to insure it, Länsförsäkringar (the National Insurance entity in Sweden, for non swedes) would reject your application otherwise.
It's probable that the form provided by Specialized isn't legal either for road-use and wouldn't replace a COC anyway (very extensive process for an individual building his own vehicule, best to buy a manufactured one).

BH, Stromer, Segway and Ninebot (one-wheel e-stuff ) are distributed in Sweden by E-turn.com, a subsidiary of KGK group, also agent of Suzuki Motors and Suzuki Insurance (I'm insured by them, 1500SEK a year for traffic liability) so a rather solid company in mobility.
Their offices, warehouse and repairshop are in Sollentuna, north part of Stockholm, and Jonas the owner of Outpost told me that they are very reactive with customer support and spare parts, in case of emergency he hops on his Speedbike for the 10kms between his shop and their warehouse.

I hope you'll manage to fix your Turbo FLR, if not maybe E-turn products will suit you better

T.

 

[Taipan]

Hello @eagamer80 !

Any good news ?

T.

 

[eagamer80]

Hi, nope, nothing new regarding unlocking my bike assist limit. I just desisted with this and I returned my Diagnosis device back to the store. I had contact with a guy in Sportson in Kungens Kurva wich is probably the best place to repair/diagnose e-bikes in Sweden (they know what I was talking about when I asked them about all this matter). They said they are about to become partners of Specialized, but currently, they don't own diagnosis tools for the Turbos (probably they won't have one considering that our Turbos will get discontinued soon -I hope I am wrong here). He also said that the limitation on the bike is very likely in the controller not the battery nor the motor, but as he didn't have the chance yet to test a Turbo bike he couldn't confirm if the controller is integrated inside the battery or rather in the frame. I wonder if actually having a new battery of a Turbo S will make any difference. Specialized said to me that it will only increase my range, but won't unlock the limitation (I didn't believe them when they told me this a few months ago, considering they are so conservative with this diagnosis tool), I guess I will need to ask some store to lend me a Turbo S battery to find out by myself.
At least now during the winter I try not to rush too much due to snow or ice, so I rely more on higher shifts making my drive less frustrating and avoiding being cut off too often at 25. (actually it cuts me off at 28).
I'll keep you posted if I get any news.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

The controller is in the battery. The limit is set there.

 

[eagamer80]

The controller is in the battery. The limit is set there.

Hi Douglas, are you sure about this? how could you know? if so, there's still hope if I get a new Turbo S battery.

 

[Sunco]

Controller is integrated into the battery just bought a second battery to my Turbo S. There is difference between the battery's.
The new one cut off is @ 43 km the old one cuts of @ 46 km.
In Europe it is 25 km +/- 10 % regarding the speed I think this is the same for 45 km bikes.

 

[Ciyrus 5000]

The new one cut off is @ 43 km the old one cuts of @ 46 km.

I have the first and the second one of the battery and it's the same of speed. 45,6kmh
Except my 342er the goes to 56kmh

 

[Bud in Denver]

The controller is in the battery. The limit is set there.

Hey Douglas! I've been following you for a while and you sound like a knowledgeable guy. Aug 1 I bought a new 2015 Turbo X and have absolutely loved the bike. That said, I've logged over 3k thru Oct mostly in the mountains but with several issues: a) had to replace toggle control unit; b) motor issues where the bike simply quit and other battery related issues. It's currently in the shop and Specialized has sent a replacement motor that too was defective. I ride for pleasure and my normal rides are in the 30 - 50 range. I've had so many "issues" that I'm a bit "gun shy" about leaving the neighborhood. Your thoughts...
...and your thoughts about a more reliable Specialized model... Thanks Bud

Additionally, I'd like responses from anyone who's had issues with Turbo X. Thanks

 

[reoutput]

I am currently waiting for a different fix from Specialized. I'm not sure what it entails but it looks to be a shim of some sort that goes under the battery. I am on my third wheel and second display, second rear brake that was all done under warranty. I have roughly 3100miles right now, I've forgotten how much though because the bike is at the shop currently.

The bike will go through several errors, like a start up motor error, randomly going unassisted with display still on which requires what I call a reboot(taking the battery out and putting it back in, sometimes unhooking the motor connection as well with the battery out). Hopefully the new fix will work out.

I have never had any issues with the battery or lights.

I also have a 2015 Turbo X that was purchased this February.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Bud,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but I have been flat out with Holiday concerts. But to answer some question and provide feedback:

a) The "toggle switch" failures (the handlebar controller) are pretty common. Don't have any good suggestions other than that Specialized seems to be replacing them.

b) Motor issues. I had something like this. I am not 100% sure it was a battery failure, but Specialized offered to replace the 468Wh battery with a 691Wh Turbo S battery so I took the deal. The issue "might" have been the battery getting loose in the cradle. There is a large allen screw in the bottom bracket area that is used to adjust the plate at the bottom of the battery case. It can put more pressure on the contacts at the top of the case so that you don't get a loose electrical connection which would then cause an apparent motor failure (Motor Err in report in the controller). This can be adjusted by turning the bike upside down and tightening the pressure plate (by turning the screw in the opposite direction of what you would expect).

I do not believe that the Specialized Turbo S is any more reliable since the frame, wiring, and controller are nearly identical. The only difference that matters wrt. to the issues you discuss are the motor and battery itself. Everything else is the same.

Have your dealer check the battery mount tension.