How far can you go on a charge?

[VarioHSDelite]

So I searched the forum and didn't see any comprehensive battery threads, so I thought I'd start one.

2018 Delite
- High Speed version motor
- Nuvinci/Enviolo hub
- dual batteries
- SuperMoto-X tires ~50psi
- highest speed achieved: 39.3mph down a hill (plenty of brakes, though i didn't crush them)

After 600 miles, I have finally had a clean, full-to-empty run. I use this bike entirely for commuting or travel, so its all Turbo mode all the time. I found the expected range to be extremely close to what I can get out of the batteries.

First data point:
- average speed of 16.1mph
- trip distance: 50 miles
- trip time: 3hr05min
- 85% Turbo / 15% eco (wasn't going to make final destination so I had to slow down, died in last half mile)
- 300ft incline 4 times over 4.4 miles, 600ft incline over 5 miles of the run (killed the average speed too)
- back down both hills every time, so kind of a wash, but not completely, as the Nuvinci makes it hard to stay over 28mph (and off the assist) down a hill

The fact that I could kill both batteries in 3 hours is kind of sad, but that bike would work you like a mule and you'd have gone 45-50 miles by then. However, 10 hours charging for 3 hours riding could be tough if my commute was longer.

One highly positive quality is that in the DC area, literally only a helicopter could beat me to a destination: it doesn't matter if you take Uber or public transportation or drive yourself, riding this bike instead shaves up to dozens of minutes off of a given A-to-B travel. I guess the only thing I haven't raced is a police car running the blue lights from A-to-B. If my colleagues announce we are all going to a happy hour across town, I'll put them all in an Uber, close the door, and be on my second round when they finally appear.

I do get a lot of the Lance Armstrongs (Middle-Aged Men in Lycra, or MAMLs) that tend to tailgate me for a draft, which can be annoying at times.

Rear tire locks up waaay too easily.

 

[Dave Bodnar]

The ride I did yesterday is typical of my use of my Giant Road E+ 1 Pro bike.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/road-eplus-1-pro

Here is a link to Stava that gives details of the ride.
https://www.strava.com/activities/2344288949

I rode about 40 miles in the lowest power setting (Eco) that I have dropped from the factory's 100% boost to 75%.

The bike was in the Eco setting for most of the ride. I only use a higher setting when finishing up my rides as there is a 1 mile climb that is great fun to take at 20 mph!

After the ride I still had 38% of the battery left. Depleting it completely should give about 65 mile range. I live in Western Pennsylvania which has its share of hills - vertical climb was almost 1700 feet. I should think the range would be 75 or more miles on a flat course.

The Giant specs say that the battery is 500 watt hour, 36V 13.8Ah Rechargeable Lithium-Ion.

The only modification to the stock bike is exchanging Shimano for Campagnolo shifters and derailleurs.

 

[lerxst]

Doesn't R&M spell it Delite? Not De-Lite? Or is it different per country?

 

[Alanzo]

Is it possible to get 90 miles or more with the 2 batteries on your Delite or is 50 mi. the limit with the battery capacity?
With the hills in my area a heavy bike will be an issue if the batteries are depleted @ 50 mi.

 

[lerxst]

I’ve got a dual battery Delite here. My Nyon is accustomed to me driving almost exclusively hills, so I believe that is making my numbers a bit on the small end here. It estimates 46mi in Eco, 29 in Tour. I’m at 79% charge right now though. So at 100% battery, you could probably do 50mi in Eco, but probably not in any other mode, if you’ve got hills too.

 

[Alanzo]

I’ve got a dual battery Delite here. My Nyon is accustomed to me driving almost exclusively hills, so I believe that is making my numbers a bit on the small end here. It estimates 46mi in Eco, 29 in Tour. I’m at 79% charge right now though. So at 100% battery, you could probably do 50mi in Eco, but probably not in any other mode, if you’ve got hills too.

I have not ridden this bike just yet and not familiar with Eco mode. Is Eco minimal use of battery assist?

I wonder if choice of tire can make a difference with total mileage before the battery system depletes. I have been looking at Schwalbe Go One tires which appear to have better road rolling resistance than a off road tire.

 

[VarioHSDelite]

The bosch range finder is quite accurate.

I could get over 100 miles on a charge if I wasn't riding at top speed the whole time. Eco mode is minimal battery assist. I ride in turbo at all times.

 

[lerxst]

I have not ridden this bike just yet and not familiar with Eco mode. Is Eco minimal use of battery assist?

I wonder if choice of tire can make a difference with total mileage before the battery system depletes. I have been looking at Schwalbe Go One tires which appear to have better road rolling resistance than a off road tire.

I’ve got a set of Schwalbe G-One’s on my Trek Powerfly Speed and quite love them. They work great in the rain too. Not too well in mud but, that’s not what they’re designed for.

 

[lerxst]

Keep in mind that hills vs flat terrain matters A LOT for mileage. Especially given our bikes don’t reclaim energy with braking. My main exercise route has me climb/descend/climb about 175’ of elevation every 15 minutes or so, and I’ll do that for 30 to 90 minutes, usually at 20 mph. That’s mostly all my bike controller sees. And this is pretty much the worst riding situation in terms of mileage. Just something to consider if your route is at all like this.

 

[JRA]

Seems like there have many posts about battery range here? What works for one rider will rarely be comparable to another as there are way too many variables at play.

Similar to the mpg ratings on internal combustion vehicles wh/mi is the best way to estimate range that you can base on your personal achievements over a short period of rides. Just divide miles ridden by wh’s used.

That said it is generally accepted that 15wh/mi is a pretty fair middle of the pack number.

 

[The duke]

I have a 2019 BH Atom X with a 700w built-in battery that incorporates all new, industry leading 21700 cells, which offer the highest energy capacity on the market (5 Ah)

And I get a total range....from 100% to 0% of......6 to 8 miles. Check out the pic below of my display. Battery at 99%, and estimated range reads 8 miles!



That's right....when I'm riding on the road in hilly conditions on either of the two highest levels of assist, I only get motor support for 6 to 8 miles. That's only 7%to 9% of the manufacturer estimated 90 mile range.

BH likes to advertise 'there and back' capability from the Atom X series. Sure, if 'there' is the 7-Eleven down the street. ?

 

[PaD]

I ride a 2020 Specialized Vado 5.0 with a Brose S motor and a 600Wh battery. It’s a European bike with power cut off att 25km/h.
These bikes have 3 support levels - Eco, Sport and Turbo.
I rode 120km (75miles) the first week I had the bike and I had 23% left of the first full charge. Riding in Eco mode almost all of the time. Not very hilly terrain but not Florida flat either. Not beeing a speed demon helps a lot.

Yesterday was very windy and I had a 3-4mph tailwind most of the time for 23.3km (24.5 miles). I used only 12% of the battery (from 86 to 74%) riding in Eco mode.
Going back against the wind and riding in Sport mode for maybe 50-60% of the time I used 22% of the battery.

 

[PaD]

I have a 2019 BH Atom X with a 700w built-in battery that incorporates all new, industry leading 21700 cells, which offer the highest energy capacity on the market (5 Ah)

And I get a total range....from 100% to 0% of......6 to 8 miles.

View attachment 33748

That's right....when I'm riding on the road in hilly conditions on either of the two highest levels of assist, I only get motor support for 6 to 8 miles. That's only 7%to 9% of the manufacturer estimated 90 mile range.

BH likes to advertise 'there and back' capability from the Atom X series. Sure, if 'there' is the 7-Eleven down the street. ?

View attachment 33750

That was sad news even if he manufacturers estimated max range is always in Eco mode.
If you were riding using peak power, 550w, all the time the 700Wh battery should last more than hour according to my simplyfied calculation.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I think this is one of those situations where Comparisons Are Odious.

Elevation gain is probably as big a factor in "range" as actual on-the-ground distance. I've found that on steep and rough fire roads climbing 5000 feet can easily burn through 800wh. Interestingly, pedal assist levels seem to matter much less in these situations.

Road surface is also a non-trivial issue. Most "paved" roads where I live are actually oil-shot gravel (chip seal), which is a pretty high-friction surface in the best of situations. I'd guess that chip seal easily knocks 15 percent off of the range you'd get on a smooth paved road, and a good gravel road knocks off another 15 percent. A rougher road would be even worse.

Weather, in particular temperatures that are too low or too high, can also noticeably affect your range. And a headwind can be as brutal as a steep uphill.

For all that, I've found that for two 500wh batteries optimum karma (on mostly chip-sealed roads with modest elevation gains) and running light on the pedal assist 65-75 miles of range is a good figure of merit.

 

[PaD]

I think this is one of those situations where Comparisons Are Odious.

Elevation gain is probably as big a factor in "range" as actual on-the-ground distance. I've found that on steep and rough fire roads climbing 5000 feet can easily burn through 800wh. Interestingly, pedal assist levels seem to matter much less in these situations.

Road surface is also a non-trivial issue. Most "paved" roads where I live are actually oil-shot gravel (chip seal), which is a pretty high-friction surface in the best of situations. I'd guess that chip seal easily knocks 15 percent off of the range you'd get on a smooth paved road, and a good gravel road knocks off another 15 percent. A rougher road would be even worse.

Weather, in particular temperatures that are too low or too high, can also noticeably affect your range. And a headwind can be as brutal as a steep uphill.

For all that, I've found that for two 500wh batteries optimum karma (on mostly chip-sealed roads with modest elevation gains) and running light on the pedal assist 65-75 miles of range is a good figure of merit.

My lesson from yesterday was the headwind factor.

 

[JRA]

"For all that, I've found that for two 500wh batteries optimum karma (on mostly chip-sealed roads with modest elevation gains) and running light on the pedal assist 65-75 miles of range is a good figure of merit."

After extrapolating those figures it seems that Mr. Coffee is just a wh/mi or so below the 15 wh/mi average I mentioned. He makes all good points and once again it points to the fact that too many variables can be in play for someone to base their range figures on without their own use as the deciding factor. The one thing he doesn't mention is the e systems efficiency rating and that can vary from brand to brand and whether mid drive or hub. Oh, and the human factor of course and that amount of watt input along with assist level. When I read about people getting 100 miles plus with 300wh batteries I figure they are not using the assist much and doing alot of effort which is fine but not going to be the case for most riders.

The advantage of a higher A cell such as the 21700's mentioned is that they have a higher and therefore potentially more efficient dis-charge rate in simulation to 18650 batteries that have lower A values. This can play into more wh/mi all else being equal but only marginally so I find from my results using my 780wh 21700. On my display, which is very accurate in regards to voltage output, the 21700 battery exhibits less voltage sag upon demand than the 18650 it replaced and that is the result of the higher A rating. However at the end of the day without doing any changes to my bikes system other than the battery and riding style and conditions I find I am still very close to my average of 15 wh/mi that I have been using for the last 3 years.

The advantage as i see it is that I am putting less stress on the battery and it should therefore last more cycles and it has the capacity to charge at a higher rate, up to 8A, that I can use for a quick fill if the opportunity presents itself. Otherwise at the 4A I normally charge at it is taking the charge easily whereas my 18650 pack was at it's limit. This should also factor in to battery life but time will tell.