how do you feel about the current regulatory system for e-Bikes in the US?

[m@Robertson]

average speed on flat terrain in the tour is 25-28mph… in the peloton/pack. yes, huge benefit of riding in groups but the idea that anyone is riding a self powered bike on flat land at a sustained 30mph? not even peter sagan!

agreed on the fancy bikes - the bike is such a simple machine, so efficient at converting pedal movement to forward speed that all the tech really is pretty incremental. a mph or two here or there. the big difference is how great a really light high tech bike feels, rather than some big boost in speed. things like more compliant carbon frames, electronic shifting, wider tubeless tires at lower pressures really make the ride more pleasant/satisfying. not much faster

AVERAGE speed on the flats. Which means the peloton sustained much higher speeds as well as lower ones. I googled the same stuff you did and saw that. Its a deceptive number. You also have to realize that one day's ride will easily be longer than 100 miles. Sometimes in the 150's. Lots of room to change it up. Especially if the peloton is subject to a breakaway and they speed up to reel it in (and the breakaway group itself will be hauling ass). You will see extended runs in the mid 30's. Come August, set your DVR to watch the unedited versions of the TDF that are broadcast live and you will see and hear everything I am saying above. Hopefully Phill Liggett is still able to do the announcing this year (he's getting old) as he is a real icon in the sport and really fun to listen to.

And I have been clocked at 34 mph on that bike I described. I was probably doing it for about 5 miles at the time. A chase car next to me did the clocking and yes I was pretty beat at the end of it. I'm not a superman although I was a very strong rider. Small upper body and long, strong legs. Perfect for the sport. Unlike the pear shape I am now. Get off the internet and into actual riding circles and you'll find the numbers I am passing along aren't out of line.

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In 2021 Mark Cavendish was clocked at 70.2 km/h during a sprint to the finish and it was suggested he was only the fourth fastest of the riders in that particular sprint. 70.2 km/h is 43.6 mph and while an end of race sprint is far from a long distance (a half mile?) but the lead out train of the team supporting the sprinter leading up to the final dash is a freaking juggernaut for a much longer distance. This is a good example of how you end up with a 28 mph average speed over an entire day, but you have segments that are well over this.

ah here you go watch this. Much better than just reading about cycling. Watch some with speed displayed real time. but... there is a tailwind. Still.

 

[mschwett]

…Get off the internet and into actual riding circles and you'll find the numbers I am passing along aren't out of line.

i’ve ridden my road bikes about 8,000 miles in the past year or a little more. i cruise on flat land without a tailwind at around 21mph, up to 25 on short bursts. i get passed occasionally, but it’s by far the exception rather than the rule - and i live in a place that’s lousy with serious cyclists. whatever a pro rider is capable of, the bottom line is that the vast majority of cyclists don’t go anywhere near 30+ mph on level ground on a daily basis. anyone out on the roads riding with an accurate speedometer knows that, so i’m not sure what your point actually is, other to imply that i only “ride” on the internet.

just because some tiny subset of people can reach very high speeds occasionally in just-right conditions does not mean an e-bike should be able to go that fast.

and that’s the last i’ll say on the matter.

 

[Slorider]

average speed on flat terrain in the tour is 25-28mph… in the peloton/pack. yes, huge benefit of riding in groups but the idea that anyone is riding a self powered bike on flat land at a sustained 30mph? not even peter sagan!

agreed on the fancy bikes - the bike is such a simple machine, so efficient at converting pedal movement to forward speed that all the tech really is pretty incremental. a mph or two here or there. the big difference is how great a really light high tech bike feels, rather than some big boost in speed. things like more compliant carbon frames, electronic shifting, wider tubeless tires at lower pressures really make the ride more pleasant/satisfying. not much faster

People always say but you know it's possible someone could go 50 MPH on a pedal bike. The thing is CAN YOU go 50 MPH or can 99% of bike riders go 50 MPH. Many people on E-bikes would be lucky to go 20 MPH on a good day with a regular bike. The problem is when you give that person a motor that can make him go much faster than he or she has the skills for.

IMO if it's not a Class 1 or 2 it shouldn't be on a multi use path or sidewalk. Of course my opinion is worthless and so are E-bike manufacturers because they don't want to do anything because they don't have to. What's going to happen is E-bike manufacturers are going to continue to fail when it comes to self regulation so governments will step in and make it much worse. As anyone has seen it's usually to ban all E-bikes in certain areas. That doesn't help anyone.

How about we encorage both types of electric bikes but make one just for the roads. A bicycle that can go 40 MPH+ would be perfect for commuting. Maybe some slight risk of death but other than that it would be awesome!

 

[m@Robertson]

just because some tiny subset of people can reach very high speeds occasionally in just-right conditions does not mean an e-bike should be able to go that fast..

You were saying analog professional riders could not go that fast (mid 30's), and implied not so subtly that my related experience was exaggerated. I was showing those speeds were not out of line for serious and/or professional analog riders. I was never even discussing ebikes.

 

[elliot friedman]

Speed Limits not Class limits!!
I can pedal a class 3 ebike as slow as any class 1 or 2.

 

[Jeffr]

The 28 MPH limit is a carryover from European regs, where Class 3 eBikes are limited to 45 KPH and require license and insurance.
The US has lagged Europe on development and adoption of eBikes as transportation; We still think of bikes as toys. How many of you have been called "cheaters" because you ride an ebike? (answer - all of us).

 

[Roamers]

How many of you have been called "cheaters" because you ride an ebike? (answer - all of us).

We haven't. Mostly get "cool bike". But then we ride Class 1s that look like regular bikes and don't buzz people using throttles or with excessive speed.

 

[Ken M]

i’ve ridden my road bikes about 8,000 miles in the past year or a little more. i cruise on flat land without a tailwind at around 21mph, up to 25 on short bursts. i get passed occasionally, but it’s by far the exception rather than the rule - a i live in a place that’s lousy with serious cyclists. whatever a pro rider is capable of, the bottom line is that the vast majority of cyclists don’t go anywhere near 30+ mph on level ground on a daily basis. anyone out on the roads riding with an accurate speedometer knows that, so i’m not sure what your point actually is, other to imply that i only “ride” on the internet.

just because some tiny subset of people can reach very high speeds occasionally in just-right conditions does not mean an e-bike should be able to go that fast.

and that’s the last i’ll say on the matter.

Ebikes are the most efficient means for a human to go from point A to B ever - more efficient than walking or riding a non-ebike when food is considered, more efficient than a fully loaded passenger train, If allowing the assist to help riders maintain a reasonably safe effective transportation speed that can get more people out of cars I think that is more important than supporting the poorly conceived People for Bikes class system (lobby money was provided to them to push this bad legislation). The only reason they didn't adopt the EU 15mph assist limit was because HR727 and other federal emobility legislation provided that motor alone to 20mph was a legal product for sale in all 50 states.

HR727, which hardly anyone ever reads and comprehends, was drafted by a PhD Electrical Engineer and it established a power limit above 20mph per constraints that made perfect sense. It was by no means a crazy fast specification and it passed one vote short of complete congressional consensus. People for Bikes should never have taken that lobby money and as a bike advocasy group they should have made sure ever state just fixed their laws to recognize a "Low Speed Electric Bicycle" as defined by HR727 as a bike and just focus on "use" as the states were supposed to do. We need more people out of cars and if allowing a bit faster ebikes does that then I think the benefits far far far far far outweigh the risks. We don't need to get into the safety statistics because there is nothing tangible that support an assist cut-off at 15 or 20mph....oh, I'm sure I'll get some subjective comments like "what about kinetic energy being higher" but everyone that has ever ridden a bike down a long hill knows it's easy to go over 20mph (research has shown that about 95% of riders hit a 28mph or faster top speed on most rides (and yest it's because of hills but that top speed should not be dismissed).

 

[Kayakguy]

Yeah, not so sure on 30mph+ on one of those although there's at least one crazy video out there of a dude zipping down a highway on one..

Several years ago, I ordered a solar collector from China, and received . . . a skateboard??? (eventually got that sorted). My grandson (about 7 y.o. at the time) wanted me to keep it, and demonstrated how he'd lie prone on it and zoom down hills. I realized he'd seen video of people doing that on twisty hilly roads, flying along at high rates of speed. I've seen those vids, and it scared the heck out of me just watching them. They can barely steer, and have no brakes other than foot dragging.

So of course I got rid of the skateboard by selling it on Craigslist (the vendor didn't want it back).