Help with hill climbing on trails

bamabradt77

New Member
Region
USA
I have a FreeSky Alaska e-bike and it is listed as a mountain bike, but it weighs over 90lbs. I have taken it through some tough single-track trails, and it can handle the level paths, even with rocks and roots, but where it struggles is with steeps and hill climbs. It is so heavy, that as soon as you lose momentum starting up the hill, you are done. Want to know from some experienced e-bike riders if there some "tricks" to getting this heavy bike up the hills on the dirt trails? I have zero issue climbing paved hills where I can use Pedal Assist 5 the highest level and on even the steepest mountain hills it can still chug its way up them. However, on the dirt trails, Pedal Assist 5 is not so easily obtained. Using the throttle alone will not do it; the motor just will not push that much weight up a steeper incline. Perhaps bringing it down to the lowest gear in preparation for the climb and putting it in Pedal Assist 5 and letting the throttle get me started, I would have enough momentum, without wheel spin/slip, to then make the climb in Pedal Assist 5? Any advice from other more experienced riders? I have only had the bike for a couple of weeks and it is my first e-bike.

Thanks
Jim
 
Jim your bike is a geared rear hub setup, right? If so, it's not as much about the amount of motor you have, it's about the gear ratios available for it's use. A geared hub has a single fixed gear ratio, about 5:1.

In an identical scenario, substituting only a mid drive system for your geared hub, you should be able to climb walls due to the gear ratios available.

I have both types (geared hub and mid drive) riding both types frequently. Both are outstanding drives when working within their specialties. After riding both types, I think it will be very clear that both are not without downsides.

Briefly, geared hubs are drop dead simple to ride, point and go - though potentially lacking when put up against a big hill . Mid drives are just a little pickier, pretty much insisting they be kept in the right gear at all times, but they will pretty much climb anything....
 
Correct, rear hub motor. It is my first foray into e-biking and I was ignorant as to drive types coming into it. Is there a budget mid drive you would recommend that could handle some rough single track with some hills.
 
Assuming you've trimmed weight where you can.

If your hill-climbing ability is traction-limited, try a lower tire pressure within tire specs. If still slipping on steep dirt, consider different tires.

If your hill-climbing ability is instead power-limited, you're going to have to do more of the work in a low gear that keeps your cadence close to your personal optimum. That means downshifting before you loose too much cadence.

I had to lower the gearing on my 65-pound 500W rear hub drive to get it up the steep grades in my area at a cadence my knees would tolerate.
 
Jeremy I did lower my air pressure and the tires are less than spectacular on this bike. They are knobby tires but very shallow knobbies mostly for pavement and grass/hard pack trails. I was thinking the same thing about a more aggressive knobby tire. That is part of the solution but not all of it.

How did you lower the gears on your hub motor? What pedal assist level do you use? This bike is so heavy anything less than level 3 is most likely not going to cut it.

Sorry for all the questions… 😀
 
Freesky Alaska has never even stood near an e-MTB 😊

0fc3601f-282c-4d9f-bd1d-34cd1d8eb8c5.19b70327da75436fb2e66c748c03334d.jpeg
Levo.jpeg

Can anyone see the difference? An E-MTB is in the 50 lb range, has a mid-drive motor from a respected brand, mountain gearing and certainly does not cost $1,300 😊
 
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Jeremy I did lower my air pressure and the tires are less than spectacular on this bike. They are knobby tires but very shallow knobbies mostly for pavement and grass/hard pack trails. I was thinking the same thing about a more aggressive knobby tire. That is part of the solution but not all of it.

How did you lower the gears on your hub motor? What pedal assist level do you use? This bike is so heavy anything less than level 3 is most likely not going to cut it.

Sorry for all the questions… 😀
I ride at PAS 1/9 over 95% of the time. Use the throttle only for brief bursts of speed on starting and in traffic.

First, I swapped the stock 42t chainring for a 38t. With the stock 9-speed, 11-34t cassette, that took me from a 34-105 inch to a 31-95 inch gearing. Much better, but 1st gear still wasn't low enough, and I wanted my 105 inch top gear back.

So when the derailleur and chain had to be replaced a few months later for an unrelated reason, took that opportunity to upgrade to a 10-speed, 11-42t cassette while going back to the 42t chainring. That left me with 27-105 inch gearing — almost perfect for this ebike in this land of many short, steep hills. (I define "steep" as any grade over 7%.)

Changing a chainring is cheap and can often be done without changing anything else if the rest of the drivetrain isn't too worn. Changing a cassette is also inexpensive if the existing derailleur can handle the new one. Your LBS can help. Not much labor involved.
 
Freesky Alaska has never even stood near an e-MTB 😊

View attachment 156937View attachment 156939
Can anyone see the difference? An E-MTB is in the 50 lb range, has a mid-drive motor from a respected brand, mountain gearing and certainly does not cost $1,300 😊
Hey, Stefan! Go easy on the new guy, huh? I know you don't mean it, but just suggesting he didn't pay enough money and doesn't have a name brand bike may not be the best way to help him out just at this particular moment! Note that Bama did not claim his bike was an eMTB, only that it was listed as one.

Having said that? Stefan does kind of have a point-- not so much about the money or the name brand, but about taking a 90-pound bike up steep hills. It probably is prudent to sound a note of caution here. If he's got experience with motorcycles, and is younger, maybe it makes sense for him to keep trying with the bike he has, learn what trails he's likely to be riding and what his approach to the sport is going to be, and then decide whether he wants to get a second bike.

I rode my first eBike for nearly a year before figuring out the kind of riding I was likely to do. And I loved having two bikes.

Bama, if you're older, and not used to a heavy bike, just be super careful, because odds are, you're going to go down on some of the steeper stuff. Having laid my bike down a couple of times on Hell Hill (feel free to search for "Hell Hill" here for a detailed account of my multiple assaults on a nasty, low-traction hill on a bike very different from yours) and also flipped my bike riding stupid? I'm happy my bike weighed only half what yours does. Because it did land on top of me, and both of us are fine (though I still have a crick in my neck 8 months later.)

What you don't want to happen: An uncontrolled backwards zero-traction slide. When this happened to me, I had no control at all. Brakes, handlebars, feet on the ground-- none of that had any impact on how the bike was moving. It was like wiping out surfing-- when you lose it that bad, you almost have to throw away the bike, protect your head with your arms, and just roll and hope for the best. Oh, and I also wear body armor.

I ride at PAS 1/9 over 95% of the time. Use the throttle only for brief bursts of speed on starting and in traffic.

First, I swapped the stock 42t chainring for a 38t. With the stock 9-speed, 11-34t cassette, that took me from a 34-105 inch to a 31-95 inch gearing. Much better, but 1st gear still wasn't low enough, and I wanted my 105 inch top gear back.

So when the derailleur and chain had to be replaced a few months later for an unrelated reason, took that opportunity to upgrade to a 10-speed, 11-42t cassette while going back to the 42t chainring. That left me with 27-105 inch gearing — almost perfect for this ebike in this land of many short, steep hills. (I define "steep" as any grade over 7%.)

Changing a chainring is cheap and can often be done without changing anything else if the rest of the drivetrain isn't too worn. Changing a cassette is also inexpensive if the existing derailleur can handle the new one. Your LBS can help. Not much labor involved.
This is great advice, IMHO. What I might add: What might be easier about having lower gearing (e.g., more teeth in back and/or fewer in front) is that you have a the option of higher cadence for pedaling, which can give you more control for traction.

I agree with Jeremy to downshift early. For me, I find that keeping cadence high gives me more control, so I can make micro-adjustments on the fly-- say, backing off for a split second to regain traction when the tires start to spin-- which is harder to do in a higher gear with a slower cadence.

Experiment with shifting your weight as well. Again, on a lighter bike, a more conventional eMTB, this might work better, I don't know how yours is balanced, but generally, getting out of your seat and leaning forward going up the hill may help.

For me and Hell Hill, it took about a dozen tries to get up without stopping or dumping it. For tire pressure, yes, generally, one would want to go lower. However, the day that I did get up Hell Hill, my pressure was on the higher side, probably 47 PSI. Why that worked on slippery Sierra sand, I can't tell you.

If it's a really nasty hill? Think in advance where you are likely to dump it if you don't make it, try to lay it down in a controlled way on the left side. I did that a couple of times without a scratch on me or the bike.
 
Unfortunately this is one of those times when you can't get there from here. the Freesky Alaska is just the wrong tool for the job. It has an inherent defect so to speak: the geared hub motor that powers the bike thru the axle, thereby being singlespeed. The chain and the pedals have nothing to do with the motor and are only there for you to add muscle and grunt your way up the hill over and above the motor's limited ability to help.

Sorry for the bad news, already delivered I suppose. You can try and mitigate the problem with a small front chainring and a larger rear cluster, but that is only going to help you fight your way up on your own power.
 
Correct, rear hub motor. It is my first foray into e-biking and I was ignorant as to drive types coming into it. Is there a budget mid drive you would recommend that could handle some rough single track with some hills.

Don't make the same mistake twice - I'd suggest deciding what you want to achieve, and then seeing what you need to spend.

Firstly, if you want to get up steep technical hills - learn on a normal bike. Hire a quality mountain bike for a day, and go play on some mountain bike trails. Learn to get up out of the saddle for climbing, learn body language, and most importantly pedal technique - how and when to stab rather than spin etc. When to use momentum, but also when to have control

Then go back to your Freesky and try the same hills - have a think about what the limiting factors are. Traction - drop the pressure. Bouncing in random directions - those pogo sticks aren't helping, but imho it's not worth sinking silly $ upgrading to decent suspension on that bike. Weight? Easy, walk beside the bike and use the throttle to get through the tricky stuff.....

Realistically, if you want to ride hard core mtb trails , it's safer and easier on a real mtb. But quality suspension / brakes / geometry is expensive , even MAINTAINING a decent mtb is expensive ( check out the cost of replacement cassettes / chains / derailleurs before sinking silly $) . Then ypu get onto that slippery slope where you look at stefans overweight levo and decide it's WAY too heavy ....sign mortgage here..........and double that figure if you want an emtb.

If you were born in '77 , then you potentially have years of enjoyment ahead of you. Go hire a couple of emtb's and decide what you really need - nb try some of the lower power / lighter emtb's as well as the full power overweight ones , last years models are heavily discounted at the moment - but still crazy expensive.
 
If it’s a very steep hill and it’s dirt, yes you will have to be in the lowest gear and maybe the highest assist to get up the hill. You may need to spin the pedals above 90 rpms also. If your rear tire is losing traction, stick your butt out over the back of the seat a little. It only needs to be a little bit and it will help with the traction.

Keep trying all the different combinations of rpm, assist and moving in the saddle, and you’ll make it up.
 
To many resellers of eBikes, it's a mtb if it has knobby tires. You don't need high power. I ride a full suspension Haibike with a 350w (nominal rating) and I've never been stopped on a single track. If you want a real mtb, your budget better be higher than budget pricing. LOL Get rid of the fat tires and get oversized. I ride on Schwalbe Super Moto, 2.4" wide. Swap your chainring to about half the size you have now. But the best thing you can do is go to a torque sensor mid drive. When you are on a rock or tree roots on a tight switchback, you don't want to wait for power from some rotation of the cadence sensor. You want it instantly from a quality torque sensor.
Haibikefarmcreek.jpg
 
Freesky Alaska has never even stood near an e-MTB 😊

View attachment 156937View attachment 156939
Can anyone see the difference? An E-MTB is in the 50 lb range, has a mid-drive motor from a respected brand, mountain gearing and certainly
To many resellers of eBikes, it's a mtb if it has knobby tires. You don't need high power. I ride a full suspension Haibike with a 350w (nominal rating) and I've never been stopped on a single track. If you want a real mtb, your budget better be higher than budget pricing. LOL Get rid of the fat tires and get oversized. I ride on Schwalbe Super Moto, 2.4" wide. Swap your chainring to about half the size you have now. But the best thing you can do is go to a torque sensor mid drive. When you are on a rock or tree roots on a tight switchback, you don't want to wait for power from some rotation of the cadence sensor. You want it instantly from a quality torque sensor.
View attachment 156980
 
Freesky Alaska has never even stood near an e-MTB 😊

View attachment 156937View attachment 156939
Can anyone see the difference? An E-MTB is in the 50 lb range, has a mid-drive motor from a respected brand, mountain gearing and certainly does not cost $1,300 😊
Freesky Alaska has never even stood near an e-MTB 😊

View attachment 156937View attachment 156939
Can anyone see the difference? An E-MTB is in the 50 lb range, has a mid-drive motor from a respected brand, mountain gearing and certainly does not cost $1,300 😊
Stefan, if you are going to bust on me, at least use the right picture. That is not the Alaska, that is their commuter bike. 😀😀😀.
 
In stefans defence, searching for the " freesky alaska" comes up with different results in different countries.

Australia gets this confused creature - I'm not sure if that's a bafang mid drive AND hub drive?

IMG_4711.jpeg


Or Amazon wants me to believe in this....again, a mid drive AND a hub drive?

IMG_4713.jpeg


So perhaps if you could include a picture of your bike and what you consider a steep hill to be, we might be better able to help?

ps , I suspect stefan is intending to " bust on" the bike, not the owner. Sometimes, it's worth understanding where a person comes from when assessing where they are coming from.
 
I have a FreeSky Alaska e-bike and it is listed as a mountain bike, but it weighs over 90lbs. I have taken it through some tough single-track trails, and it can handle the level paths, even with rocks and roots, but where it struggles is with steeps and hill climbs. It is so heavy, that as soon as you lose momentum starting up the hill, you are done. Want to know from some experienced e-bike riders if there some "tricks" to getting this heavy bike up the hills on the dirt trails? I have zero issue climbing paved hills where I can use Pedal Assist 5 the highest level and on even the steepest mountain hills it can still chug its way up them. However, on the dirt trails, Pedal Assist 5 is not so easily obtained. Using the throttle alone will not do it; the motor just will not push that much weight up a steeper incline. Perhaps bringing it down to the lowest gear in preparation for the climb and putting it in Pedal Assist 5 and letting the throttle get me started, I would have enough momentum, without wheel spin/slip, to then make the climb in Pedal Assist 5? Any advice from other more experienced riders? I have only had the bike for a couple of weeks and it is my first e-bike.

Thanks
Jim
To many resellers of eBikes, it's a mtb if it has knobby tires. You don't need high power. I ride a full suspension Haibike with a 350w (nominal rating) and I've never been stopped on a single track. If you want a real mtb, your budget better be higher than budget pricing. LOL Get rid of the fat tires and get oversized. I ride on Schwalbe Super Moto, 2.4" wide. Swap your chainring to about half the size you have now. But the best thing you can do is go to a torque sensor mid drive. When you are on a rock or tree roots on a tight switchback, you don't want to wait for power from some rotation of the cadence sensor. You want it instantly from a quality torque sensor.
View attachment 156980
In stefans defence, searching for the " freesky alaska" comes up with different results in different countries.

Australia gets this confused creature - I'm not sure if that's a bafang mid drive AND hub drive?

View attachment 156997

Or Amazon wants me to believe in this....again, a mid drive AND a hub drive?

View attachment 156998

So perhaps if you could include a picture of your bike and what you consider a steep hill to be, we might be better able to help?

ps , I suspect stefan is intending to " bust on" the bike, not the owner. Sometimes, it's worth understanding where a person comes from when assessing where they are coming from.
In stefans defence, searching for the " freesky alaska" comes up with different results in different countries.

Australia gets this confused creature - I'm not sure if that's a bafang mid drive AND hub drive?

View attachment 156997

Or Amazon wants me to believe in this....again, a mid drive AND a hub drive?

View attachment 156998

So perhaps if you could include a picture of your bike and what you consider a steep hill to be, we might be better able to help?

ps , I suspect stefan is intending to " bust on" the bike, not the owner. Sometimes, it's worth understanding where a person comes from when assessing where they are coming from.

In stefans defence, searching for the " freesky alaska" comes up with different results in different countries.

Australia gets this confused creature - I'm not sure if that's a bafang mid drive AND hub drive?

View attachment 156997

Or Amazon wants me to believe in this....again, a mid drive AND a hub drive?

View attachment 156998

So perhaps if you could include a picture of your bike and what you consider a steep hill to be, we might be better able to help?

ps , I suspect stefan is intending to " bust on" the bike, not the owner. Sometimes, it's worth understanding where a person comes from when assessing where they are coming from.

PDoz
I was completely tongue-in-cheek when I responded, that is why I put the smiley emojis. I was not busting on Stefan.

The Alaska has a rear hub motor only, not a hub and mid drive. The compartment you see below the pedals is where the controller is housed. There are two batteries on the bike which gives it amazing range and the controller intelligently draws power from both batteries as needed. It also has the limiter for the throttle which limits the throttle only speed at 20mph. Full pedal assist 5 puts out a steady 33mph.
 
PDoz
I was completely tongue-in-cheek when I responded, that is why I put the smiley emojis. I was not busting on Stefan.

The Alaska has a rear hub motor only, not a hub and mid drive. The compartment you see below the pedals is where the controller is housed. There are two batteries on the bike which gives it amazing range and the controller intelligently draws power from both batteries as needed. It also has the limiter for the throttle which limits the throttle only speed at 20mph. Full pedal assist 5 puts out a steady 33mph.
That's my job as he's ever the dick. 🙃
 
Understand that you didn't buy the best bike for hardcore mountain biking but that doesn't mean that you still can't have some fun.... and that's the point is it not.
I enjoy trail riding but not on a professional or competition level... then add my opportunities to do so these days are limited so my bike is more of an SUV that has modest capabilities and is comfortable for long MUP rides and to run errands. So understanding this I am very happy and I don't desire a +$7000 professional mtb. And honestly it would be just as wrong a choice for my other needs.
 
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