Light vs regular full suspension ebikes

[Johnny]

Recently, I’ve been thinking about getting another full suspension eMTB. Some of the newer models I’ve seen look really appealing. Although the prices seems to have increased a lot, the average offering seems to come with higher end components and I see a lot of CF frames.

While researching more traditional full powered eMTBs like those with Bosch CX(gen 5 seems decent) or Shimano EP8/EP801(old but there are a few good deals on these) motors, I realized there’s now a growing category of lighter eMTBs. These bikes pair less powerful motors with carbon frames and seem to offer a very different riding experience.

Several of the models I looked at use TQ HPR50 motors. They’re very light and visually, almost indistinguishable from regular mtbs. The trek I saw took me a moment before realizing that it was an electric bike. I’m curious to hear your opinion on this type of bikes compared to the regular ones.

I would be interested in something I can easily hop on, ride leisurely on hills, light trails, and that feels closer to a regular bike especially when the motor is turned off. Additionally, many of the trails in my area have a no–e-bike policy. I was wondering whether riding a TQ50 or similar light eMTB with the motor turned off would generally be acceptable on those trails.

 

[stompandgo]

I don't ride an EMTB but we sell a lot of them at the shop. Mondraker Dune, Orbea Wild, Cannondale Moterra. All Bosch. Personally, I have two electric bikes, a full power Cannondale Tesoro, with a Bosch 85Nm motor, and a Pinarello Nytro E5 Allroad, which is a "commuter" bike built on a gravel frame, that has the TQ HPR50. They are completely different in weight and power.

The Cannondale, even on Eco, will pull you along once you get going. Crank up the assist, and it's clearly an electric bike without a throttle. It's also around 50 pounds, and a hardtail. It's a bit too much bike for me. The Pinarello is around 32 pounds, no suspension. You can get EMTBs with HPR50's close to that weight. The TQ is very different. Only on assist level High do you get that e-bike feeling. At normal assist levels, it's like riding in a tailwind. It's very quiet and very subtle. I ride it a lot with the assist off, because you can. It's light, fast, and handles like an analog bike. You may see some reports on the internet of HPR50 motors failing, or reducing power due to overheating. The main failure is the sprag clutch, which is what connects the crank to the motor. TQ has been very good at replacing them. The failures have mostly been in EMTB's ridden very hard for their entire battery range. To address this, TQ introduced the HPR60, which has external cooling fins, and updated software to limit power. The HPR60 can be retrofitted to most HPR50 bikes if needed.

The big kahuna in EMTB motors today is the DJI Avinox. It's a full power 105Nm mid drive motor with a smaller, lighter battery. DJI has found a way to increase efficiency to get reasonable range while having big power on tap in a lighter footprint. You can get it in the AMFLOW, and about a dozen smaller, some boutique, manufacturers. At least one big name brand will have one in their bike this spring. I'm not allowed to say who that is.

 

[Johnny]

Excellent information, thank you. On my bikes with the older Bosch CX, I rarely used anything beyond Eco mode (occasionally Tour, and almost never Turbo; Turbo always felt more like a throttle to me) until I eventually sold them. While Eco was sufficient most of the time, I never really enjoyed riding those bikes without assistance. That’s one of the reasons these newer light bikes caught my attention. When I lifted one in the shop, I was genuinely surprised, it was quoted at under 40 lbs, around 38–39 lbs, which is impressive considering the beefy suspension components and how good it looks.

You may see some reports on the internet of HPR50 motors failing, or reducing power due to overheating. The main failure is the sprag clutch, which is what connects the crank to the motor. TQ has been very good at replacing them. The failures have mostly been in EMTB's ridden very hard for their entire battery range. To address this, TQ introduced the HPR60, which has external cooling fins, and updated software to limit power. The HPR60 can be retrofitted to most HPR50 bikes if needed.

Oh, well even with the sales I'd rather not put 4k on a bike to later change the motor but thanks for the information.

The big kahuna in EMTB motors today is the DJI Avinox

Yes, I’ve seen the reviews and was very interested in the DJI motors. Not only does the hardware look excellent, but the ecosystem also appears to be more open and flexible compared to Bosch. I’m not looking for more power per se, but on the road I’d be happy to use the bike as a Class 3, and then switch to Class 1 on trails which seems possible with this system. The main issue, as you mentioned, is that AMFLOW is currently the only brand using that motor. If you’re saying that more brands will be coming out with bikes using it, that’s definitely good to hear.

By the way, among full-power bikes I really liked the Cannondale Moterra. The model I found has a carbon frame, and I’m wondering how durable those frames are. I do all my own bike maintenance, but I’m a bit cautious when it comes to carbon-fiber frames.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A Specialized Levo SL 2.

 

[stompandgo]

There are about a dozen small manufacturers that build EMTB's around the Avinox today, just not one major manufacturer. As for carbon frames, you're not going to get the light weight and ride quality you want without one. Do they break? Yes. Can they be repaired? Most of the time.

I would not let internet reports on the TQ system scare you away from the platform. B*tching reigns supreme on the internet. From what you have said, it's a great fit for your riding style. Check out the Yeti MTe. HPR60, 38 pounds. Absolutely beautiful in person.

 

[Johnny]

There are about a dozen small manufacturers that build EMTB's around the Avinox today, just not one major manufacturer. As for carbon frames, you're not going to get the light weight and ride quality you want without one. Do they break? Yes. Can they be repaired? Most of the time.

I would not let internet reports on the TQ system scare you away from the platform. B*tching reigns supreme on the internet. From what you have said, it's a great fit for your riding style. Check out the Yeti MTe. HPR60, 38 pounds. Absolutely beautiful in person.

Thank you. CF made sense on those really lightweight bikes. I’ll check a few other shops to see what they have, and I’ll also take a look at the Yeti.
What’s your take on carbon fiber full-power eMTBs? It seems like the market has shifted toward more expensive bikes with carbon frames even in the heavier(50+lbs), full-power category, but I’m skeptical about how much advantage carbon really offers on bikes like that.

 

[gromike]

Those are sure some nice emtb's, stompandgo.
I'm kind of partial to the Amflow myself.

 

[stompandgo]

Thank you. CF made sense on those really lightweight bikes. I’ll check a few other shops to see what they have, and I’ll also take a look at the Yeti.
What’s your take on carbon fiber full-power eMTBs? It seems like the market has shifted toward more expensive bikes with carbon frames even in the heavier(50+lbs), full-power category, but I’m skeptical about how much advantage carbon really offers on bikes like that.

My take is the same. I would not buy a no-name carbon framed EMTB no matter what power level the motor is. I would absolutely buy a carbon framed bike from a major manufacturer. Most have frame replacement programs that protect you as long as you own the bike. We had a guy with a Moterra come in the other day who had a bad wreck on the trail. He's pretty banged up and won't be riding for a while. The bike was as bad off as him. He tore the NDS rear dropout completely off. The rear wheel was dangling from the other dropout. One call to Cannondale, and he's getting a new frame.

Even though full suspension MTB's ride quality is mainly about the suspension, the frame does still play a part in the ride. Lighter weight certainly does.