Help me prioritize features

[kranky]

I have been doing a lot of reading to understand the various features/characteristics of ebikes. Of course, there's never a product that has the exact combo of features I want. So trade-offs have to be made, and the issue is that without any bike experience at all, I don't feel confident in prioritizing the various features. So to those with experience, how would you rank these choices in order of importance?

I'm almost 70, short, overweight, not great physical condition, have hand issues that will keep me from doing almost any "work" on a bike, live in a very hilly area which is what had kept me from biking up until ebikes became popular. It won't replace my car because of longer drives to places I need to go, but it would probably replace half of my driving to nearby places.

I am certain I want both pedal assist and throttle. Would have to drive to get to an LBS. Too afraid to go on long rides in case my bike dies and I can't get home, so range isn't a concern. No riding in bad weather or after dark, my depth perception isn't great. Cost isn't a real concern, but features, ease of use and quality are.

How would you prioritize these things given I can't have everything?
1. Torque rating (is 60nm enough?)
2. Hydraulic (vs mechanical) brakes
3. Buying from a LBS to get advice, repairs, etc., meaning I would be limited to what brands they carry. Even if I were to buy online I would need to use a LBS for any repairs and I'd probably buy all my accessories from an LBS in any event to support local business. If I was to buy online with a free return privilege, I don't know if I could get it put back in the box for return shipping.
4. Step-thru ideal but makes the bike heavier, which is probably bad. I might be able to manage a step-over.
5. Lighter is better. I could probably manage up to 60 pounds. I'd have to load it in the car to get it to an LBS. Would I want a carbon fiber frame?
6. To reduce maintenance, belt drive vs. chain preferred
7. Automatic shifting is very attractive for ease of use
8. Don't really care how fast it goes. As long as it has the power to climb hills on its own
9. Upright seating position
10. Front suspension as potholes are common (does this even work?)
11. If it doesn't come with fenders, lights and/or a rear rack I will have an LBS add them.

Even if your reply just says what you feel the top 5 numbered items are in order of importance, that would be very helpful. I'll read every reply carefully with appreciation.

 

[Jacko]

4-9-3-5. For you

 

[sc00ter]

Oh boy, by the look of that list your'e overthinking this ebike purchase. You didn't mention your location, or I didn't see it, concerning the steepness of these hills. Steepness and length of these hills will determine hub drive or mid-drive. Also, is this just for recreation use of daily use? You have a garage or are you bringing it in the house? Listing your location will also help determine the level of theft protection you need for your new ebike, though your local shop should assist you in choosing a quality lock.

For me this is my wish list that I met with my current ebike.
1) 20" wheels for nimbleness.
2) Able to haul 2 people with relative ease.
3) Great battery range (with 2 clunky batteries that look like after thoughts).
4) Nice enough to care about but cheap enough I don't stress or worry about it.
5) Upright riding position. Beach cruiser style is a favorite seating position.
5) Step-Thru all day long. No horse mounting a bike for me.
6) Front rack compatible for shopping runs.
7) Throttle is mandatory but I rarely use it.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I have been doing a lot of reading to understand the various features/characteristics of ebikes. Of course, there's never a product that has the exact combo of features I want. So trade-offs have to be made, and the issue is that without any bike experience at all, I don't feel confident in prioritizing the various features. So to those with experience, how would you rank these choices in order of importance?

I'm almost 70, short, overweight, not great physical condition, have hand issues that will keep me from doing almost any "work" on a bike, live in a very hilly area which is what had kept me from biking up until ebikes became popular. It won't replace my car because of longer drives to places I need to go, but it would probably replace half of my driving to nearby places.

I am certain I want both pedal assist and throttle. Would have to drive to get to an LBS. Too afraid to go on long rides in case my bike dies and I can't get home, so range isn't a concern. No riding in bad weather or after dark, my depth perception isn't great. Cost isn't a real concern, but features, ease of use and quality are.

How would you prioritize these things given I can't have everything?
1. Torque rating (is 60nm enough?)
2. Hydraulic (vs mechanical) brakes
3. Buying from a LBS to get advice, repairs, etc., meaning I would be limited to what brands they carry. Even if I were to buy online I would need to use a LBS for any repairs and I'd probably buy all my accessories from an LBS in any event to support local business. If I was to buy online with a free return privilege, I don't know if I could get it put back in the box for return shipping.
4. Step-thru ideal but makes the bike heavier, which is probably bad. I might be able to manage a step-over.
5. Lighter is better. I could probably manage up to 60 pounds. I'd have to load it in the car to get it to an LBS. Would I want a carbon fiber frame?
6. To reduce maintenance, belt drive vs. chain preferred
7. Automatic shifting is very attractive for ease of use
8. Don't really care how fast it goes. As long as it has the power to climb hills on its own
9. Upright seating position
10. Front suspension as potholes are common (does this even work?)
11. If it doesn't come with fenders, lights and/or a rear rack I will have an LBS add them.

Even if your reply just says what you feel the top 5 numbered items are in order of importance, that would be very helpful. I'll read every reply carefully with appreciation.

Welcome aboard! Have no advice to offer on most items, but definitely purchase from an LBS able and willing to service your particular ebike on both the mechanical and electrical side. Hydraulic brakes for sure.

Given your height and physical condition, don't let a few pounds of added frame weight dissuade you from a step-thru. Love mine and have yet to notice any undue frame flexure.

Full suspension will add weight and cost that may not make sense in your case. But consider front suspension and a suspension seat post — especially if you'll be shopping on the bike over rough roads.

Spring shocks meet my needs, and they're pretty much set it and forget it once you get the preload dialed in. Air shocks cost more and have to be pumped up now and then. Others can better advise you on this trade-off.

You'll find the throttle a valuable riding tool with many uses having nothing to do with getting out of pedaling.

Good luck.

 

[indianajo]

You left off #1, frame fits your body. Your height, weight, length of legs & arms, matter.
#2 is a non-issue. I actually prefer cable pull brakes to hydraulic, because I cannot take the bike to a shop on my car. I do not operate a car. Hydraulic can leak, and IMHO require pro service. I certainly had a lot of leaky calipers on disk hydraulic brakes when I was maintaining a car. Had to go new cylinders every pad change to prevent leaks. The secret to cable pull brakes, buy a bike that has real steel cables, not grey metal. I adjust my front pad every 1000 miles (takes 5 minutes every 6 months) and replace the front pad every 5000 miles. Trek giant kona cannondale gazelle reiss&mueller specialized yamaha yuba blix make bikes of real aluminum and steel. The most popularly priced models like Rad, do not. Same with the shifter cables. Cheapo bikes like the diamondback & pacific models I had previously, required frequent adjustment of the stretchy shifter cables.
#3 is important for a non-mechanical person. #4 and #9 are matters that should not be negotiated. I am afraid to flex my next excessively. My mother popped a neck disk typing at a bad workstation, and I look just like her.
I disagree with scooter about 20" wheels. I think the best method to reduce shock of potholes is to ride 26" wheels or bigger. 1.75" tires or bigger are important. As I am short I ride 26"x2.1", but taller people can get on 700 mm or 27" tires. I do not have front suspension. I do keep the front tire at ~50 PSI to reduce shock, but I keep the rear at 55 to 65 to carry groceries effectively to prevent hitting the rim on bumps & holes. Fat tires (3" or bigger limited to 30 psi max) ride better but chew up enormous amounts of battery energy. Fat tire bikes generally cannot be ridden without power by the aged. I ride my bike without power 70% of the distance unless wind is >12 mph in my face.
If you have a geared hub drive, chain maintenance is a 5000 mile problem. Can be synchronized with tire replacement. My tires last 2000 miles. I ride 77 hills up to 15% over 30 miles with geared hub drive, but they are short rollers, 150' max. Long grades that drag the motor down to a crawl for as much as an hour can burn a geared hub motor. People living in the rockies, sierras, should buy mid-drive bikes, however often they have to change the chain. I find watt rating predicts hill climbing ability better than torque. My geared hub motor is 1000 w (nearly impossible to buy these days). Mid-drive motor torque is not important if you have a big enough rear sprocket. I have 36 tooth rear with a 22 front, so I can climb 15% grade without power and 80 lb groceries. Rain sometimes takes out the power. Most mid-drives have a single front sprocket, except Yamaha. 42 or 48 tooth rear sprockets can really help a mid-drive with 46 tooth front sprocket climb hills.
Auto shifting is a new feature and I suspect the technology is not entirely reliable. It limits one to drop handlebar bikes, or straight bar mountain bikes. Bent bar cruiser style bikes do not seem to offer it. The bent bars help my hands from falling asleep as they did on straight mountain bike bars.
Be sure your selling shop promises fenders. Some models will not allow them. I ride a rear flashing light any time visibility is poor, and a front if I am coming out of a setting sun on road. 100 lumen or more. My lights are aftermarket and chargeable with phone charger (catseye) or use AAA batteries(brightz). As I ride at night occasionally I have 2 lights for both front & rear.
Carbon frame is reliable from the major vendors, but is not from smaller vendors. My step through bike weighs 72 lb unloaded or 92 lb with full spares including tire, rain gear, tools, water. I never take my bike for rides on my non-existant car. I can fix nearly anything 6 miles off cell phone coverage, out where there are no street signs and taxis cannot find the way. As my motor operates without a display, I can easily roll the bike on handlebar & seat to change a tube in 25 minutes or less. With knobby tires, I get a flat about every 2 years as long as I keep the knobs taller than 3/32".
As my army damaged knees can provide severe pain if I twist one, having a throttle is mandatory for me. I do forestry/agriculture work out at my summer property, 30 miles out. I may avoid pedaling as much as a week after a twist. Throttle not available with most mid-drives (bosch, shimano), except bafang mid-drive has throttles.
Happy shopping and later riding. Riding the bike everywhere instead of driving a car dropped my weight 55 lb, my cholesterol 50 points, my rest pulse 15 bpm, in the 15 years since I quit work.

 

[sc00ter]

If money isn't really a driving factor, actually fair priced, and you want or need a mid-drive with throttle for hills then ZEN ebikes pop in my head. Common parts that any bike shop can service and quality out of the gate that can easily be customized further. I just ride in my area but if I ever started commuting again (getting fat and lazy) I will admit that a 26" or larger wheel would be better for a commuting ebike. Their (ZEN's) Photon checks my commuter box needs. indianajo's weight loss and better health results might just inspire me to try my commute again.

 

[kranky]

A sincere thanks to all of you for taking time to let me learn from your experience and knowledge.

 

[mcdenny]

I was in a somewhat similar position as you two years ago when I bought my first E bike. Got a Specialized Turbo Como which didn't meet some of my initial criteria but has turned out great so far.

I was fortunate to be able to go to a local LBS that let me try out about half a dozen different bikes. (go on a day when they are not likely to be busy) You really need to try out a few hub drive bikes (most all have a throttle) and mid-drive (most don't have throttle). They have quite a different riding feel. The mid drives feel more like riding a regular bike but with Lance Armstrong's legs. They are also quite a bit more expensive.

I got a bike with front shocks and they do make a difference. but it's still a bike and you will want to lift your butt off the seat if there is much of a bump. The shocks probably add 5 lbs to the bike. In retrospect I would have been a tiny bit happier with a lighter bike without shocks but that is not a very big deal.

Step through and upright ergos for sure, makes a world of difference to me. I keep a crate on a rack on the back of my bike and would have a real problem getting my leg over that. I don't think there is much of a weight difference vs. step over.

I really wanted a belt drive with enviolo hub shifting but none were available. I had an old bike that the derailleur was always jumping sprockets so really didn't want chain drive. Turns out that was just a crappy bike. The Shimano Alevio (toward the bottom end on the Shimano line) system on my Como works perfect. You have to clean the chain once in a while but not that often if you always ride on pavement. I clean mine maybe every couple of hundred miles.

Any E bike remotely fitting your specs will weigh 55-65 lbs. Having the motor means the weight doesn't matter when pedaling but they are all heavy beasts to lift into a car. I don't think I could wrestle my bike into the back of my mid-size SUV even if it would fit. For sure you would have to take off the front wheel and battery. Kind of a PITA. I got a hitch carrier and can put it on the car and then two E bikes on that in about 5 minutes. More expense but the easiest way to transport the bikes.

My bike has the weakest motor in the Specialized line @ 50 NM torque and smallest battery at 530 Watt hours. Nashville is pretty hilly and I've never found a hill I couldn't easily ride up in turbo power mode. Going fast (15-18 mph) letting the motor do most of the work range is about 25 miles. Going slower (10-12 mph) putting some effort into pedaling range is 75 miles. My a$$ and shoulders are about done after a couple of hours anyway. I'm really happier riding 10-12mph, half the motor power and battery capacity would have been enough for me. Note that all E bikes in the US have the motor power cut out at either 20 or 28mph. 20 is plenty fast enough for me but you might want to go faster.

If you enjoy your bike and actually, you know, ride it a good bit, you will find yourself getting fitter and stronger even though it's electric. When I first got my bike it felt nearly impossible to ride with the motor turned off. Now, 1000 miles and 2 years later, I turn off the motor often to get a better workout.

If I were you I'd take a look at a mid-drive Specialized Turbo Como 3.0, $2500 your choice of chain or belt drive and a hub drive Aventon Pace 500.3, $1400. There are bazillion brands on the internet but buying from an LBS is definitely worth it. Lots of Specialized dealers and even though Aventon uses a direct sale model some LBS handle them too. Trek offers some good mid drive choices too, similar to the Turbo Como but without front suspension: a Verve +3 at $3300 or a Verve 4S at $3500.

Don't know if you care but I think Specialized has the best dashboard and smart phone interface. Quite a step up from the Bosch readouts on the Trek bikes. The Aventon had a nice color readout but I don't know how it works with your phone to tune the motor's response to your pedaling effort.

 

[Doggyman1202]

Some great pointers from all those above. I'll add my 2 cents here: Purchasing from an LBS and assembling/servicing at an LBS are not mutually exclusive, at least where I live. The two LBS I use are happy for my business even though I purchased my bikes online (Priority and Evelo, plus Lectric and Propella gifted to extended family members).

Based on your list, I think you're on the right track. 2-4-5-6-9 would be my recommended priorities. I agree with Micah about 10.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Buying from a LBS to get advice, repairs, etc., meaning I would be limited to what brands they carry.

It is the Priority #1. E-bikes are far more complex and unreliable compared to traditional bikes and require a qualified LBS for repairs and warranty handling. Your LBS needs to understand the brand its sells. Some premium brands (like Specialized) offer now buying online with the delivery and handling via a trusted LBS neareast to you. A good warranty is valuable. There is also something you can do only with the brand LBS: demo riding an e-bike to not only determine whether you like the e-bike but if the e-bike size would fit you. Nothing beats a demo ride, and not only of a single model of an e-bike. A demo ride would give the answer to the most questions you asked.

Hydraulic (vs mechanical) brakes

Hydraulic disk brakes are a must. It is an e-bike, a heavy and a fast vehicle. You would not like to compromise your health or life, would you.

Torque rating (is 60nm enough?)

Don't really care how fast it goes. As long as it has the power to climb hills on its own

It really depends where you would be riding (flat, hills, mountains?) I ride two e-bikes: a 37 lb 35 Nm mid-drive, and a 58 lb 90 Nm mid-drive. While I can do relatively short climbs up to 10% grade on the less powerful e-bike, I would not take in to the high mountain roads.

Lighter is better. I could probably manage up to 60 pounds. I'd have to load it in the car to get it to an LBS. Would I want a carbon fiber frame?

There are many good e-bikes in this weight range. I bought the 37 lbs e-bike to easily carry it. The 58 lb one is something I can get into my car with no issue but carrying it upstairs is slightly problematic (still the e-bike can be rolled upstairs in the Walk Mode). No, you would not want a carbon fibre frame. The CF reduces the e-bike weight by perhaps 2 lb (seriously!) but it is to be ridden by a lightweight cyclist, no cargo. And CF happens to crack if you are unlucky.

Step-thru ideal but makes the bike heavier, which is probably bad. I might be able to manage a step-over.

I have a medical condition of legs. Started with a Step-Through but now I can mount a Step-Over as well. Nothing wrong with the ST or Low-Step frames!

6. To reduce maintenance, belt drive vs. chain preferred
7. Automatic shifting is very attractive for ease of use

The belt/IGH add to the e-bike weight and cost. Yes, the belt is maintenance free. The IGH is not as efficient as the chain, and the Automatic IGH is -- in my opinion -- slightly overhyped. Still, nothing wrong about that.

Upright seating position

A typical thought of a novice. Few people realise the upright riding position means pain in the butt just after several miles ridden, and that cannot be corrected with a "sofa-type" saddle that only makes the things worse...

Front suspension as potholes are common (does this even work?)

Yes, a good suspension fork helps a lot. Especially when combined with possibly low tyre inflation pressure (within the limits).

If it doesn't come with fenders, lights and/or a rear rack I will have an LBS add them.

Good e-bikes are pretty much integrated. It is not a regular pedal bike. If you think it is easy to add the lights, fenders and/or rear rack to an e-bike, read these forums more

 

[harryS]

Overthinking it, yes.

#4, as you said you have the money, Buy a stepthru with throttle. A year from now, you may want something else. That's OK. It's only money,

 

[Jean-Paul B.]

Hi Kranky,
I have been in a similar approach earlier this year : "Cost isn't a real concern, but features, ease of use and quality are"
So if you want to avoid putting your hands in bike maintenance, which is also the case for me, I would suggest :
1 - Find a good LBS delivering high end bikes : Spezialized, Riese & Muller, Gazelle, Moustache, ..... You will need his support for maintenance.
2 - Limit brand range to the ones that are likely to be here tomorrow.
3 - Test demo bikes, to find the one you are comfortable with.
4 - Automatic shifting, hence belt, is to my eyes #1 "ease of use" feature. Don't forget that "Lighter" doesn't go well with "Features, ease of use, quality". I choose to forget about weight. It's an ebike, not a bike.
If I were you, I'd have a look at Specialized Turbo Vado IGH or Riese & Muller Nevo 4. There are probably other options, but I have not looked at them enough to suggest.