Has anyone gone from an e-bike with throttle to one without?

[procreator]

Its better to have it so that when you need it, its there for you. Otherwise, you do without and like it.

That's the point. Some e-bike purists will say, "that's not an e-bike...it's a moped". Whatever.

I have found that the more I ride the less I use the throttle. My legs are getting in better shape, and I am inclined to up the PAS level when pedaling gets hard rather than use the throttle. I admit though, that sometimes it is fun to just slam the throttle down and go for the ride.

 

[PedalUma]

Its better to have it so that when you need it, its there for you. Otherwise, you do without and like it.

Pretty much the only time I use throttle is in the exact scenario @shappy0869 does. Its a big help; especially on hills.

I rode an analog bike for decades on city streets. Its the 21st century now. I did all my suffering in the 20th. Flying car. Vacations on the moon. Ebike throttle. These are the benefits we enjoy in the 21st Century.

The guy with the BBS02 I did last week is super happy with the build without a throttle. He has a throttle bike also. But it is heavy. All you do is up the level and ghost pedal. It is the equivalent of pushing your thumb. He took a big hill on his test ride in 5th gear and just zoomed up. I am not into that disconnect between cadence and chainring speed. I want those two linked or it does not feel right to me. And assistance need to be fed through the shiftable gears to make me happy.

 

[m@Robertson]

meh. Like I said, I put in my time doing it the hard way. If I want to get up from zero to 10 asap without effort, I can do that. And afterwards if I walk into a church, the pictures do not fall off the wall and I don't hear any nuns screaming. It must be OK, then.

As you know, I treat the throttle response and the pedal assist as separate animals, and my pedal assist is toned way down, so that connection is still there and the bike never can run away from me. Unless I want it to on throttle

 

[6zfshdb]

I currently have an e-bike with a hub motor coupled with a single speed drivetrain (39T X 16T), torque sensor and a throttle. I use the throttle primarily for getting going from a stop and for crossing intersections as fast as possible. For either situation, I would put the bike in PAS 5 (max) and throttle to my desired speed, then dropping the PAS to 1 or 2 and then I keep my speed up by just using PAS and no throttle.

However, I am looking at a new bike that is a mid-drive with a similar amount of torque 80Nm (vs 89Nm on my current bike). The big differences with the new bike are the fact that it uses the Enviolo CVT and does not have a throttle. Without being able to test drive the new bike, my obvious concern is getting that burst of speed when I want/need it. Obviously with the CVT, I would shift to the lowest ratio while using max PAS setting. I just have no way to judge, since I can't test drive the bike, whether I will get the quick, intersection slicing thrust, that I have become accustomed to.

If you have gone from a bike with a throttle to one without, did you suffer from throttle withdrawal? Did you eventually get over it?

There has been a lot of good information provided here so far. The only thing I can add is this:
I test rode more than a dozen bikes before buying. Mid drive, hub drive, with and without a throttle. Every bike is slightly different in it's ability to start from a dead stop. Some of the PAS only (class 1) bikes I tried had an annoying delay before the motor kicked in. Some kicked in with max torque and some "built up" to max. All the PAS only cadence sensor bikes required the crank to spin from a half to almost a full revolution before any assist was felt. Bikes with torque sensors had a delay as well. All the class 2 bikes I tested had an instant response when the throttle was activated.

I found this delay quite annoying and it was partly the reason I ultimately chose a class 2 throttled bike.

Keep in mind, the dozen or so bikes I tested were just a small cross section of what is on the market today. The only way to answer your question for sure is to test ride.

 

[AHicks]

There has been a lot of good information provided here so far. The only thing I can add is this:
I test rode more than a dozen bikes before buying. Mid drive, hub drive, with and without a throttle. Every bike is slightly different in it's ability to start from a dead stop. Some of the PAS only (class 1) bikes I tried had an annoying delay before the motor kicked in. Some kicked in with max torque and some "built up" to max. All the PAS only cadence sensor bikes required the crank to spin from a half to almost a full revolution before any assist was felt. Bikes with torque sensors had a delay as well. All the class 2 bikes I tested had an instant response when the throttle was activated.

I found this delay quite annoying and it was partly the reason I ultimately chose a class 2 throttled bike.

Keep in mind, the dozen or so bikes I tested were just a small cross section of what is on the market today. The only way to answer your question for sure is to test ride.

Amen.....

 

[PedalUma]

I hate lag. With the torque sensor setups I go to first, the default is lag from the speed sensor. It is a big bad nanny thing. Then it gradually ramps up power with wheel speed. I yank that 5hit. 5crew delay. I want it and I want it now!

 

[fooferdoggie]

I could live with a throttle but I don't want to make sacrifices in the bikes I choose. my first mid dirve was a dapu mid drive with a throttle the throttle was fine though I did not need it much. but I would not want to give up having a bosch powered bike or such to have a throttle.

 

[BigNerd]

How are those mid-drives that have a throttle?

 

[AHicks]

How are those mid-drives that have a throttle?

I have 2 of them, both Bafang powered. An Ultra and an M600. I refuse to consider a bike without one. If you don't need one, fine. You're carting around an extra ounce of electronics for no good reason - until you DO need it - for whatever reason. For me personally, using it to get the bike moving while I collect my balance during that first couple of feet the bike starts moving is an awesome tool (like power windows or cruise control in a car). Don't need it for that? Fine, don't use it....

 

[mojoe]

My first ebike had a throttle and a rear hub motor. I hardly ever used the throttle.

My next two ebikes and my new trike do not have throttles. I don't miss them. The Gocycle has a front motor with rear IGH. The Priority Current is mid-drive with rear IGH. The trike is technically mid-drive (motor mounted up front at the chain ring) with rear IGH.

What I do for a quick takeoff from a stop, is to shift to a lower gear, and bump up the assist. That way, I can start, and zip along with just regular pedalling. Once I clear the intersection, I upshift and lower the assist. It works very well for me, in place of a throttle.

On stops or slow downs on a hill, I increase the assist, and down shift as needed. At the crest of the hill, I again lower the assist, then up shift.

Of the three, the only one that isn't good on steep hills is the Gocycle, but it wasn't designed for that. It does fine on lesser hills.

The other thing that makes a big difference is having a torque sensor, which responds to pedalling effort. A cadence sensor can't do this.

As for the person who has trouble shifting an IGH, I've have no problems with that. All I have to do is pause for a fraction of a second to shift. The key is to take the pressure off of the pedals. This can often be done while still pedalling, by shifting at the top of the pdeal stroke. My experience has been with two different Shimano IGH and one Rohloff IGH. The Rohloff on the trike is a bit more sensitive to pressure on the pedals when shifting. In any case, I much prefer the IGH, and the Rohloff with 14 evenly spaced gears is wonderful.

 

[PedalUma]

That's right, drive it like a manual transition as in a European sports car, rev, clutch pause, shift. Down shift. for a corner or way down for a stop. And not like someone stuck in an automatic truck. Those guys are fukeddUp. I can cross town three times faster than a tuck-stuck guy. Their truck bodies are made like dollar store baster pans. One whack at a seam crumples into $1200. They cannot explain to insurance how the big offending truck got FukedUp.
T

 

[mojoe]

I've actually used the manual transmission analogy when explaining IGH use to others. The younger crowd don't know what I'm talking about

 

[sc00ter]

I owned a 68 Chevy "Scooby Doo" van and it was a 3 on the tree. Friends thought that it was an automatic and I was just going thru the speeds, that's how smooth I could drive it, Then it stalled on me one day and I had enough! That 307 motor was pure junk. Once I got it started I just held the pedal down till the motor tossed a rod THOUGH the coffin cover! The chunk of rod bounced around INSIDE the van, leaving 3 big dents! I sold it to a friend who put in a newer 359 motor and converted it to an automatic. He also tapped out the dents from the rod bouncing around.

 

[DarOv]

My first ebike had a throttle and a rear hub motor. I hardly ever used the throttle.

My next two ebikes and my new trike do not have throttles. I don't miss them. The Gocycle has a front motor with rear IGH. The Priority Current is mid-drive with rear IGH. The trike is technically mid-drive (motor mounted up front at the chain ring) with rear IGH.

What I do for a quick takeoff from a stop, is to shift to a lower gear, and bump up the assist. That way, I can start, and zip along with just regular pedalling. Once I clear the intersection, I upshift and lower the assist. It works very well for me, in place of a throttle.

On stops or slow downs on a hill, I increase the assist, and down shift as needed. At the crest of the hill, I again lower the assist, then up shift.

Of the three, the only one that isn't good on steep hills is the Gocycle, but it wasn't designed for that. It does fine on lesser hills.

The other thing that makes a big difference is having a torque sensor, which responds to pedalling effort. A cadence sensor can't do this.

As for the person who has trouble shifting an IGH, I've have no problems with that. All I have to do is pause for a fraction of a second to shift. The key is to take the pressure off of the pedals. This can often be done while still pedalling, by shifting at the top of the pdeal stroke. My experience has been with two different Shimano IGH and one Rohloff IGH. The Rohloff on the trike is a bit more sensitive to pressure on the pedals when shifting. In any case, I much prefer the IGH, and the Rohloff with 14 evenly spaced gears is wonderful. I also highly recommend the site - https://betpokies.co.nz - here I usually have fun after work. But do not spend money, you can play there without investing.

Thanks for the extended comment. I am carefully gathering new information for me and even considered the Gocycle e-bike for myself. But you say that it is not designed for steep hills (if I understand correctly). But if I ride it out of town, where there are no steep hills, but there are forests and fields, is it good? Or is it better to consider something else? Would you recommend something?

 

[JRA]

Thankfully no.

 

[teskow]

I went from a bike with a thumb throttle to one without and do miss it from time to time.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I've actually used the manual transmission analogy when explaining IGH use to others. The younger crowd don't know what I'm talking about

Spotted in parking lot...

 

[PSm]

I currently have an e-bike with a hub motor coupled with a single speed drivetrain (39T X 16T), torque sensor and a throttle. I use the throttle primarily for getting going from a stop and for crossing intersections as fast as possible. For either situation, I would put the bike in PAS 5 (max) and throttle to my desired speed, then dropping the PAS to 1 or 2 and then I keep my speed up by just using PAS and no throttle.

However, I am looking at a new bike that is a mid-drive with a similar amount of torque 80Nm (vs 89Nm on my current bike). The big differences with the new bike are the fact that it uses the Enviolo CVT and does not have a throttle. Without being able to test drive the new bike, my obvious concern is getting that burst of speed when I want/need it. Obviously with the CVT, I would shift to the lowest ratio while using max PAS setting. I just have no way to judge, since I can't test drive the bike, whether I will get the quick, intersection slicing thrust, that I have become accustomed to.

If you have gone from a bike with a throttle to one without, did you suffer from throttle withdrawal? Did you eventually get over it?

I first had two e-bikes with throttle, and now added a 3rd one with PAS only & no throttle (cadence sensor, belt drive, single 64x20 gear). Missed throttle only a TINY bit, and quickly got over it. I can always temporarily put it in high PAS assist from a stoplight, but really don’t need it.

Now I almost only ride the PAS only single speed, and it’s awesome. Helps that it’s lighter weight than the others, and love the belt drive.

 

[mojoe]

Thanks for the extended comment. I am carefully gathering new information for me and even considered the Gocycle e-bike for myself. But you say that it is not designed for steep hills (if I understand correctly). But if I ride it out of town, where there are no steep hills, but there are forests and fields, is it good? Or is it better to consider something else? Would you recommend something?

The Gocycle is designed for street riding with moderate hills. I did put different tires on mine that have a more agressive tread (not knobby). I have ridden hard packed dirt MUP trails with those tires on the Gocycle. I would not recommend the Gocycle for that type of riding, if that is your primary use. I had a hard time finding suitable replacement tires, as Gocycle says not to use tires with a wire bead, because of the alloy wheels.

It doesn't have a throttle, but has a "boost button" that gives full power while you press the button. This can help you on a short steep hill, but will very quickly drain the battery. The boost button won't work at a full stop on the GX. I don't know about the G4.

One downside to the Gocycle, compared to almost every other ebike - there are no controls. You must use your phone to change assist levels. On moderately hilly riding around here, I found the Eco mode wasn't enough, and the City mode too much. I created a custom mode in the phone app that was in between. The assist mode that you are currently using is saved in the bike, so when you power it on, that mode is the default. If you don't change the assist mode, then you don't need to use the phone app at all. Just press the power button on the frame, and ride. I put the phone in my pocket while riding, and only use the app to see how many miles I've ridden. If you want to use a phone as a control/dashboard, the bike comes with some silicone rubberbands to mount a phone to the handlebars. A poor solution IMO. The handlebars are thick, and oddly shaped, so most phone holders won't fit (I've tried a few, and gave up).

To make up for the lack of on-the-fly assist levels, the Gocycle uses a torque sensor, and feels like it dynamicly adjusts the assist somewhat to suit your needs (within the limits set in the app, especially for a custom assist mode).

Even with its downsides, I still like my GX. It is small, light, and folds. The chain drive is sealed, so no mess, and little maintenance. It's fun to ride and quite zippy, as long as you mostly ride on pavement and moderate hills. Basically, it does well with the type of riding that it was designed for.

Since I got my etrike, I'm selling the Priority Current, but keeping the Gocycle. For short rides (20-30 miles) where transporting the trike would be a hassle, the Gocycle can be tossed behind the seat in the truck quite easily. The trike folds, and I got QR front wheels, but it still would be more trouble to transport.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Great question! Can't help from personal experience, but from others' experiences, sounds like you might not miss a throttle if you have a torque-sensing mid-drive, strong legs, good knees, and always plan ahead. In my case, sounds unlikely.

My 62-pound Class 2 has a 500W hub motor with torque-sensing PAS and a throttle. Like you, I use the throttle only for starts and instant bursts of speed -- no shifting or PAS adjustment or forethought involved.

Really value those bursts as a safety feature. Realistically, hazards you might be able to squirt around with a throttle aren't always foreseeable. Great bike infrastructure around here, but also a lot of distracted drivers and kids doing stupid things on ebikes.

In my case, the throttle's also a knee-saver. Legs are definitely getting stronger, but no matter how much stronger they get, I'll still have the same crappy knees. And they hate high-effort pedaling at low cadence. My throttle earns its keep just by keeping my knees out of that regime, come what may.

If you attempt throttle withdrawal, please let us know how it works out.