Haibike SDURO Trekking S 8 VS 9

[Thomaslje]

Hello Everyone.
I have now setteled in on a bike and I think it is going to be the Haibike SDURO Trekking S and I see that there is the model 8.0 and then the model 9.0.
Can anyone tell me how big of a difference there is in these two models, I can get the 8.0 model a lot cheaper as it is an older model, but I am not sure if it is worth paying that more and getting the 9.0 model.
I purly need the bike to commute to work.

 

[Browneye]

One of the bigger differences between the two drives is also cadence support. If you're familiar with the old dirtbikes, there was a major difference between the 2-strokes and the newer 4-strokes when they came out.
The Yamaha supports lower cadence and puts out more 'low end' power. Recommended for steeper climbs, slower pedaling, and heavier rider.

Both are excellent. Either one makes for a great eMTB - a hub drive is simply not even in the same league in this category. And no, these are not 'commuter' or 'city' bikes. They're for riding mountain bike trails.

Oops....the 'Trekking' model is a city bike. IMO all of the features and changes are not as relevant for a commuter/city type ebike. In this case, if you're looking for greater range, choose accordingly. Both platforms are great for this application. And yes, if you're looking for top speed, then surely a hub-drive is a good option. Cheaper too.

I've been eyeballing the Haibike eMTB's so just jumped to that conclusion. They have the same model designations too, like xduro and sduro.

 

[Thomaslje]

Edit: scratch the Juiced remark below. Just saw you were from Denmark.
I have the Sduro S6.0 which is the direct predecessor to the Sduro S8.0.

The most obvious differences between S8.0 and S9.0:

- Sduro S 8.0 has a Yamaha PW-45. The 9.0 has a Gen. 2 Bosch Performance Speed. The Yamaha is a slightly better hill-climber, particularly if the hill is steep (greater than 18% grade). The lowest climb ratio gear on the 9.0 is 1:1.09.On the S8.0 it’s 1:1. The Yamaha engine also has slightly more torque (63 No versus 70). More importantly the Yamaha has a lot of low end grunt. Even if you’re not in the right gear it will still climb. With the Bosch you will have to be in exactly the right gear. The Bosch requires 80RPM or more to climb. The Yamaha wil accomodate a very low RPM from the rider. This is important only if you climb hills that are 15% grade or greater.

- The S9.0 has an air fork. The 8.0 has a mechanical fork. The travel is greater in the S 9.0.

- The S 9.0 can accomodate two batteries, but you need to buy a special rail from Haibike. With that you can have to 1000Wh onboard. One battery will be a powertube, the other a power pack. See Court’s video for more info.

- The front lighting is better on the S 9.0.

- The S 8.0 has Zero Cadence, a sort of mini push that assist with pedaling as soon as you lean on the pedal and travel about 1/12th of a rotation.

-The S 8.0 is most likely not available in the US. Check with your dealer.

- The S9.0 has other obvious advantages due to the fatter tires.

Lastly and most importantly, if you want to maintain 28mph constantly because you have long, flat, straight stretches of road, then neither of these bikes is for you. They both cut off at about 26.5 mph and are extremely inefficient at high speeds. Get a geared hub instead. I suggest a Juiced CC or one of the other Juiced commuters. Those bikes maintain 28mph or higher with moderate battery consumption. Both the Trekking models will suck the life out of your 500Wh battery at 26.5 mph, meaning you’ll get little range. I own one bike, have covered about 800 kms on the S9.0, and have borrowed a Cross Current from a family member whilst visiting the US. There is no question that the Juiced is much better at Speed and moderate type rolling hills. Given your other post where you state that you want to commute at high speed, I don’t understand why you’re considering either Haibike model.

Thanks mate, the only reason why I was looking at these two bikes is cause they were in my price range and was available in EU.

Maybe the bike I should go for is the Gazelle Cityzen Speed that one might be the best commuter oriented.

 

[Thomaslje]

Hello Everyone. I Think I have found the model and I think it is going to be the Giant QUICK-E+ that one is a good price arround 3500$ so not the most expensive one but also not the cheapest one, but it looks to be good value and I can get this in EU, anyone have any remarks on that bike.

 

[Akrotiri]

Edit: scratch the Juiced remark below. Just saw you were from Denmark.
I have the Sduro S6.0 which is the direct predecessor to the Sduro S8.0.

The most obvious differences between S8.0 and S9.0:

- Sduro S 8.0 has a Yamaha PW-45. The 9.0 has a Gen. 2 Bosch Performance Speed. The Yamaha is a slightly better hill-climber, particularly if the hill is steep (greater than 18% grade). The lowest climb ratio gear on the 9.0 is 1:1.09.On the S8.0 it’s 1:1. The Yamaha engine also has slightly more torque (63 No versus 70). More importantly the Yamaha has a lot of low end grunt. Even if you’re not in the right gear it will still climb. With the Bosch you will have to be in exactly the right gear. The Bosch requires 80RPM or more to climb. The Yamaha wil accomodate a very low RPM from the rider. This is important only if you climb hills that are 15% grade or greater.

- The S9.0 has an air fork. The 8.0 has a mechanical fork. The travel is greater in the S 9.0.

- The S 9.0 can accomodate two batteries, but you need to buy a special rail from Haibike. With that you can have to 1000Wh onboard. One battery will be a powertube, the other a power pack. See Court’s video for more info.

- The front lighting is better on the S 9.0.

- The S 8.0 has Zero Cadence, a sort of mini push that assist with pedaling as soon as you lean on the pedal and travel about 1/12th of a rotation.

-The S 8.0 is most likely not available in the US. Check with your dealer.

- The S9.0 has other obvious advantages due to the fatter tires.

Lastly and most importantly, if you want to maintain 28mph constantly because you have long, flat, straight stretches of road, then neither of these bikes is for you. They both cut off at about 26.5 mph and are extremely inefficient at high speeds. Get a geared hub instead. I suggest a Juiced CC or one of the other Juiced commuters. Those bikes maintain 28mph or higher with moderate battery consumption. Both the Trekking models will suck the life out of your 500Wh battery at 26.5 mph, meaning you’ll get little range. I own one bike, have covered about 800 kms on the S9.0, and have borrowed a Cross Current from a family member whilst visiting the US. There is no question that the Juiced is much better at Speed and moderate type rolling hills. Given your other post where you state that you want to commute at high speed, I don’t understand why you’re considering either Haibike model.

I've been waiting for the Haibike Sduro but the 2020 model year with the 4th gen speed motor. Will it be better for long rides at higher speeds than the 2019 sduro?

 

[Akrotiri]

There will not be a Haibike Sduro 2020 model with the 4th Gen Speed Motor. This is clear because the 2020 catalogue has already been released. It is identical to the current lineup: Sduro S8.0 with gen.1 Yamaha PW-45 and Sduro S9.0 with 2nd Gen. Bosch Speed drive. I've attached the Haibike Trekking part of the catalogue. The speed bikes are at the end.

I've only ridden the new Gen. 4 drive for about 40 kilometers, so my opinion isn't really fully formed to be honest. It seems better at hills, and I did a lot of hillclimbs. But I didn't really get to have it stretch its legs. It was mostly winding forest roads and rolling hills. First observation: the drive seems to make more noise.

Depending where you are in the world there are other brands that already have the Gen 4. Speed drive in their lineup. A few that come to mind:

Riese und Muller
Scott
Moustache
Trek
Diamant
Kalkhoff

I live in NYC during the winter and spring and Greece from June until October. Here in NY I'm using my Juiced RCS which I'm extremely happy with. I'm ready to move on to higher-end for my e-bike for Greece. I have a car here in NY too so my RCS is only for recreational use.

However in Greece it will be to commute and for recreation since I live on a relatively remote tourist-free island when I'm there. I'm very familiar with R&M and the super delight meets all my needs: dual battery, full suspension (however the rear suspension is overkill for me but the fact it is FS is great), 45KPH, non-smart phone display, good looks, dealer network.

I looked at the trek Allant models I would be interested in based on my needs but the new 9s has no front suspension and a smart phone display hub (which i don't want) which is a deal breaker for me. However there is a trek dealer in the Greater Athens area.

I'll take a look at the other brands you suggested for sure.

The watt wagons super commuter fat tire and non-fat tire is exactly what I want for my bike in Greece plus its about 3k cheaper than the R&M SD but I would have to pay for shipping on a container ship and risk of course paying import duties before its release in Pireaus port which would certainly be ma$$ive negating the savings from purchasing the super delight as the EU has major protectionist tariff policy when it comes to e-bikes and bikes. And that has always been the case ,long before the trade wars going on today. And even though the WW is open source which is great I assume I would have trouble finding bike shops willing or able to service the WW.

 

[Akrotiri]

That's an interesting background and perspective you have.

I guess I'm in the same boat as you. I wish they had put a Gen. 4 drive on the Sduro S9.0 and just left the option of the dual 500Wh battery as it is currently (Multi-rail system + PowerPack 500 + PowerTube 500).

I was interested in the Trekking Sduro S9.0 because it has a more mellow price than the R&Ms. I just can't bring myself to spend that much money. Interestingly the current Sduro S9.0's price has gone up in certain countries. The 2020 Swiss price has been raised by about 180 euros with respect to the 2019 price. It makes little sense to me given that it has a Gen. 2 drive and so many new models are shipping with Gen. 4 drives. If they had slashed the price by 25% instead I would probably consider getting one. I have a Bosch Expert centre that's about 15 kilometers from where I live in Switzerland, so I'm not really worried about getting work done on an older drive.

Yes totally agree about ease of service when it comes to Bosch motors (and their household appliances) in Europe. However, I'm also not willing to purchase a 2020 haibike that doesn't have the 4th gen Bosch speed motor based on the fact that the new 4th gen speed motor has 75NM torque as opposed to the 2nd Gen which has 60NM. Other than that the Sduro would have been perfect for me if it had the 4th gen Bosch speed motor. I Guess for now I'm going to have to accept the fact I have to pay quite alot for the R&M which is the best for my needs but I do think it's slightly overpriced even with the rohloff.