Haibike Sduro Trekking or a another Specialized Vado

[PaD]

My Vado 4.0 ran away with some guy I’ve never met. ( didn’t even get a glimpse of him) I prefer to think it was abducted rather than leaving me voluntarily.
Anyway I need a new bike but I’m not in a hurry as winter is near and I don’t like ice and snow when biking.
I really started to like the Vado so why not just buy another one? Well, when I bought the Vado I didn’t do much research. I did very short rides on a few bikes with Bosch motor and when I one rode a Vado 4.0 I liked not just the silent motor but also smooth strong power at lower speeds and the handling. So I bought it.
Now I’ve heard good things about Yamaha motors for reliability and perhaps also range. I like to go for all day rides and need range.
I did a short test ride on a Sduro Trekking 8 today and my initial feeling was that it was not as smooth and perhaps not as powerful in the bottom end as the Vado with Brose motor. For some reason I felt that the Sduro would be easier to pedal 25km/h (limit in EU) but I’m not sure. I definitely will do more extensive test rides this time.
I welcome comments from those of you with experience from Haibike, Yamaha, Brose, Specialized.

 

[Feliz]

I have a 2018 Trekking 10 but never tried out a Yamaha or Bose although I'm considering a Brose, sorry I can't help. My Haibike with the Bosch is the strongest climber of my four bikes though.

 

[PaD]

Sorry about the theft. That really sucks. I hope you had insured the bike.

If the support from Specialized is good in your locale, buy the Vado again. I got the Trekking Sduro because I suspect my local Specialized support would have been pretty poor. Otherwise, I would have gotten a Vado 6 which is a great commuter that can do almost everything including speed, dirt paths, and the really steep stuff too. My Sduro Trekking has 15,000 kilometers on it, and the drive has been fairly reliable so far. But the Vado makes a lot less noise. As the Yamaha drive gets old, it starts to sound like a rattling kettle and makes an odd noise. Moreover, ECO mode is very weak and might not be sufficient for many uses. I’d get the Vado again if you were happy with it. Couldn’t talk about the 25km/h limit as I have a PW-45, which is a 45km/h bike.

Thanks a lot for input.
I have theft insurance. Excess turned out to be higher than I expected but I probably get 75% of value.
What’s it like in Switzerland, is your 45km/h bike allowed on bike lanes?
I’ve been happy with the Vado 4. 0 ( after the early motor exchange) but thought I should take the ”opportunity” to check out the competition. I do however think that the Vado’s silence and, as I feel, strong eco mode at lower speed will be difficult to beat. I use eco mode for 99% of my riding.
I sometimes feel that power assist should come quicker from a standstill. The Vado wants the crank to move half a revolution (maybe it’s less) before adding power. This is mainly in town at streetcrossings but not it’s not a big problem really.
The 25km/h limit is what it is, I have to accept it or get a Vado 6. (or find a suitable tuning)
I will try some different bikes but.....

 

[Carterk]

I love my Raleigh Redux which uses the Brose Motor and in many ways is similar to the Vado. The one regret I have is that, like you, I’d like to have more range (I’ve eked 50 miles out of the 496kwh battery here in hilly Seattle, but it wasn’t easy). If I’d bought a Bosch bike, I’d consider buying an extra battery- maybe a 400kwh from someone who’d upgraded- and strap it to the rack when I wanted to take a day-long ride. As it is, the custom Raleigh battery is really too long to do this- and they’re less of a commodity than the Bosch batteries, I suspect I’d pay $1000, when I’ve seen the smaller Bosch batteries for $400 (lightly used).

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I have the dual suspension Haibike Full FatSix, with the Yamaha PW drive system, 400wh battery and of course, the 4.0 inch wide Schwalbe fat tires. This is a US model ebike, thus, the drive cuts power at 20 miles per hour or beyond 90 pedal rpm.

I have a little over 5700 miles on the bike and the only issue I have had are flat tires. The drive system has been completely trouble free, save for the one time a stick kicked up into my rear spokes, moving the sensor magnet off a bit. A few minutes spent repositioning the sensor and I was on my way.

I've ridden her 12 months of the year in a 4 season climate here in New Jersey, USA. Been out on road surfaces where the temps were around 120 degrees and have been on the towpath trails in snowy conditions and tempertures in the teens and twentys (F).

On my usual 20 mile local runs, one run done 100% on asphalt, using HIGH power, I will come back with about 50% battery power remaining. On HIGH power, the drive system predicts 43 miles use, on STANDARD power, 53 miles, on ECO and ECO +, I can get anywhere from 60 to 80 miles predicted range. Last summer, I did a 95 mile combination asphalt and canal towpath run, using a combo of HIGH, STANDARD, ECO and ECO+ to complete the run. Even shut the system down on the way back to climb some steep hills in order to save my battery juice remaining. When I came up in the driveway from the trip, I had 18% battery power remaining. Still amazed to this day over that ride.

I've been completely sold on Yamaha and hope to upgrade to the 500wh battery for even more range potential. I can agree with poster JayVee about the ECO setting; but it is a matter of perspective if one runs in the HIGH or STANDARD power settings. I don't believe on this site there is a more economical and high mile range ebike out there that beats the Yamaha drive.

To Poster JayVee: Sounds to me like you might want to look into replacing your internal motor bearings. There is a nice video created by the owner of Performance Line Bearings here that details how to replace the bearings in our motors....

Enclosed are some photos of that 95 mile run; with shots of the display panel at certain mileage points.

Mike

 

[PaD]

I have the dual suspension Haibike Full FatSix, with the Yamaha PW drive system, 400wh battery and of course, the 4.0 inch wide Schwalbe fat tires. This is a US model ebike, thus, the drive cuts power at 20 miles per hour or beyond 90 pedal rpm.

I have a little over 5700 miles on the bike and the only issue I have had are flat tires. The drive system has been completely trouble free, save for the one time a stick kicked up into my rear spokes, moving the sensor magnet off a bit. A few minutes spent repositioning the sensor and I was on my way.

I've ridden her 12 months of the year in a 4 season climate here in New Jersey, USA. Been out on road surfaces where the temps were around 120 degrees and have been on the towpath trails in snowy conditions and tempertures in the teens and twentys (F).

On my usual 20 mile local runs, one run done 100% on asphalt, using HIGH power, I will come back with about 50% battery power remaining. On HIGH power, the drive system predicts 43 miles use, on STANDARD power, 53 miles, on ECO and ECO +, I can get anywhere from 60 to 80 miles predicted range. Last summer, I did a 95 mile combination asphalt and canal towpath run, using a combo of HIGH, STANDARD, ECO and ECO+ to complete the run. Even shut the system down on the way back to climb some steep hills in order to save my battery juice remaining. When I came up in the driveway from the trip, I had 18% battery power remaining. Still amazed to this day over that ride.

I've been completely sold on Yamaha and hope to upgrade to the 500wh battery for even more range potential. I can agree with poster JayVee about the ECO setting; but it is a matter of perspective if one runs in the HIGH or STANDARD power settings. I don't believe on this site there is a more economical and high mile range ebike out there that beats the Yamaha drive.

To Poster JayVee: Sounds to me like you might want to look into replacing your internal motor bearings. There is a nice video created by the owner of Performance Line Bearings here that details how to replace the bearings in our motors....

Enclosed are some photos of that 95 mile run; with shots of the display panel at certain mileage points.

Mike

Thank you Mike, I really appreciate owner reports.
I have heard good things about reliability and range for the Yamaha motor system. Great to hear about that 95mile ride!
My longest ride has been 53miles and I think I had about 10% left. Hard to know on the Vado as it only shows remainibg battery in 5 bars. I must try to test ride a Haibike/Yamaha more than just around the block to geta feel for assist in Eco mode ( and other modes)
My annual distance will probably be 2500 - 3500 miles.
Thanks again

 

[PaD]

Speed and riding conditions as e.g. terrain will of course affect range. The kms I have sqeezed out of my 500Wh Vado battery are ridden at an rolling average speed of around 18- 22km/h (11-14mph).
It’s not like Florida where I’ve ridden but probably mostly less hilly than Jayvee’s rides in Switzerland.
When I lost my bike I was actually at the Specialized Concept Store and discussed getting a 604 battery

Edit.
About speed.
I find the 25km/h limit ok when riding in town. The bike lanes are mostly narrow and there are a lot of bicycles.
When I get out of town I sometimes would like a little higher assist speed but for me US restriction 20mph (32km/h) would but OK.

 

[PaD]

In Sweden and I assume all EU countries you are not allowed to ride an official 45km/h e-bike on bike lanes. These lanes are for regular bikes and 25km/h e-bikes but you may pedal your regular bike as ”fast as you like”. I don’t know for sure but think the fine is about 100 Euro for riding an official 45km/h bike in a bike lane.
Getting caught with a chipped bike in Sweden is probably not a good thing just as in Switzerland. There are a lot of roads in the countryside in Sweden where unauthorised motor vehicle are not allowed. I can ride there with the 25km/h bike as it is regarded as a bicycle.
I guess my range would go down with a Vado 6

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

PaD: Sorry to read of your bike getting stolen. I don't have a lock for my bike; which is foolish as anytime I go into a convenience store around here to get a sandwich and drink, my eyes are always on the bike. So I can imagine the horror and anger you must have felt when you knew your bike was not where it was supposed to be.

My runs are mainly done at water level as I live in a part of NJ that has little elevation except for the small and big waterways that make their way into the Delaware River. I recall JayVee's video here climbing those hills around home and it became quite clear that the power meter had to be pegged, while the battery percentage numbers were quickly counting down.

I'm mindful of the 15 mph speed limits built into your Euro drive systems. Here in the US, it always seems to come down to a question of more power, more speed. I have to tell you, moving at 20 mph in town, around cars close by your shoulder, 20 is fast enough for me! Most times though, the vast majority of my miles on the odometer were spent in the sub 10 to 13 mph.

 

[bob armani]

Sorry to hear about someone taking off with your Vado! I know we probably all build up a personal attachment to our bikes over time of ownership. Hope you find a nice replacement. If you do not replace it with another Vado, I would take some extra time with test rides with bikes in the same category. The Yamaha is a good start. I think their new Ebikes (Cross-Connect and Cross-Core) are good candidates that also carry nice warranties as well. I also hope to test ride one or both in the near future. Happy shopping.

 

[PaD]

Yesterday (Nov. 10) I found out there is a new Specialized Vado 5.0 for EU market, i.e. 25km/h bike.
In 2019 the Vado 5.0 comes with the 1.3 motor used for the Levo 2018 and a 604Wh battery! The fork will be a suspension fork (rigid 2018) , same Suntour NCX E25 as the other Vados. Brakes will be XT T8000.
This will be something for me to consider as a replacement for the Vado 4.0 I lost.
Specialized seems to have downgraded the lighting. They now specify 205lm vs 300lm last year.

 

[PaD]

Yup, it's a nice blue grey. Looks good.

The Vado 5.0 is available to order in Switzerland, but it's much more expensive than the 4.0. The 4.0 is listed at the equivalent of 3500 euros whereas the 5.0 would roughly cost 4034 euros. Seems like quite a big gap considering a 100 Wh battery increase.

View attachment 27184

In Sweden the new 5.0 is about 375€ over the 4.0
Still a lot of money. I am however thinking the larger battery could be worth it for me especially if the 1.3. motor is more efficiant and can add to range.
The 4.0 I had was also a bit too expensive compared to the 3.0.
If I cut down on tournedos and wine for a couple of months it can be done
Need a theft alarm this time. And be more careful!

 

[PaD]

My first world problem.
I was very happy with my Vado 4.0 and I am leaning towards a Vado 5.0 as a new bike. There are bikes that perhaps are better suited for forest/gravel roads during my excursions in the countryside. I did ok I think with the Vado but I was taking it easy on bad roads. ( I don’t intend to ride offroad or trails)
The interesting bikes I’ve found on internet are only available through web stores ( I’m in Sweden) and I don’t like that. I prefer being able to go to my LBS if there is a problem with the bike.
Spanish manufacturer BH offers th Atom -x Cross Pro. Looks nice with a Brose S motor and a 700Wh battery.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
From German manufacturer Bulls there is e.g. the Bulls Lacuba Evo 25. Brose motor and 650Wh battery
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

One interesting bike I can buy locally is the Moustache Samedi 27 Xroad. Looks great too but I think I want a Brose motor again. Maybe I should test ride the Moustache again. It’s got a Bosch Performance CX and that is of course a fine motor. 500Wh battery. I would like larger.
https://www.moustachebikes.com/en/electric-bikes/samedi-27-xroad/samedi-27-xroad-5/

 

[PaD]

I just spoke to the Specialized Concept Store in Stockholm and they said the Vado 5.0 now is available as a 2020 model and so comes with the new display and will work with the Mission Control app.
It’s an expensive e-bike but I liked the Vado 4.0 I had and the 5.0 has a 600Wh battery and maybe the 1.3 motor is a bit more efficient. The lack of motor resistance above cut off speed is not without importance as the cut off is at 25km/h (15.5mph) so for a Brose bike there aren’t really any alternatives to Specialized where I live as I prefer buying from LBS.
Two weeks ago I unexpectedly and quickly had to do a coronary artery operation (all done from inside the artery, you know they widen with ”balloons”) This makes me think I qualify even more for a nice powerful e-bike.

 

[Marci jo]

I just spoke to the Specialized Concept Store in Stockholm and they said the Vado 5.0 now is available as a 2020 model and so comes with the new display and will work with the Mission Control app.
It’s an expensive e-bike but I liked the Vado 4.0 I had and the 5.0 has a 600Wh battery and maybe the 1.3 motor is a bit more efficient. The lack of motor resistance above cut off speed is not without importance as the cut off is at 25km/h (15.5mph) so for a Brose bike there aren’t really any alternatives to Specialized where I live as I prefer buying from LBS.
Two weeks ago I unexpectedly and quickly had to do a coronary artery operation (all done from inside the artery, you know they widen with ”ballons”) This makes me think I qualify even more for a nice powerful e-bike.

A speedy recovery for you.
And yes, you qualify for a nice powerful bike.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I just spoke to the Specialized Concept Store in Stockholm and they said the Vado 5.0 now is available as a 2020 model and so comes with the new display and will work with the Mission Control app.
It’s an expensive e-bike but I liked the Vado 4.0 I had and the 5.0 has a 600Wh battery and maybe the 1.3 motor is a bit more efficient. The lack of motor resistance above cut off speed is not without importance as the cut off is at 25km/h (15.5mph) so for a Brose bike there aren’t really any alternatives to Specialized where I live as I prefer buying from LBS.
Two weeks ago I unexpectedly and quickly had to do a coronary artery operation (all done from inside the artery, you know they widen with ”ballons”) This makes me think I qualify even more for a nice powerful e-bike.

PaD: Yep, you qualify! All the best to ya in your recovery. An Ebike is the perfect exercise tool for a cardiac patient cleared by his/her cardiologist; a great investment.