Griz Attacks and Kills Bicyclist in Montana

[AHicks]

Thinking my thoughts would take much longer due to the sudden warmth coming from my underwear....

 

[Luto]

They are fast too. My AK guides recommend shotgun 00 shots and says go for the throat, NOT the head. A large caliber will slide off most places on the head.

Ever seen them do "pushups" and grunt? That is one pissed off bear.

 

[rawlus]

people dying of bear attacks or shark attacks or at the hands of other predators is just nature tracking its course, the bear is taking the weaker prey in this instance. sounds cold and of course a human life is precious, but it’s also reality that not everyone can live, we cannot create a world where nobody does before their time, death is as much a part of life as birth. people who are anxious about bear attacks can simply avoid bear populated areas, which is most of the planet. the last few places left where bears or other major predators create a habitat it’s really their habitat and we are the guests or the prey.

plenty of things a person can do to stand a chance in a bear encounter, but tragedies are truly inevitable… bears, mountain lions, mosquitoes even…. things die at the hands of other things and humans are not excluded from this natural law.

 

[Art Deco]

Web search 'EXCEPT BEARS' sometime

 

[JASmith]

They are fast too. My AK guides recommend shotgun 00 shots and says go for the throat, NOT the head. A large caliber will slide off most places on the head.

Ever seen them do "pushups" and grunt? That is one pissed off bear.

You have to question how much they know about modern ballistics though, as there's been so much advancement even just in recent years and 00 is rather primitive with so much recoil and such a heavy and unwieldy tool to carry. For example solid copper projectiles like Lehigh/Underwood Defender/Penetrator/Hunter series exist that use fluid dynamics rather than soft expanding hollow point can zip through IIA body armor, bullet proof glass, and go straight through both shoulders of a boar, and still have a perfect shape to pop a gallon jug of water. The idea that it can go through all that and yet bounce off the bone on a bear skull is frankly kind of silly IMO, and generally speaking you just aim center mass and shoot as rapidly as you can maintain decent accuracy because you're more likely to hit something crucially vital that way whereas aiming for specific things like the head or neck can be unrealistic in actual emergency situations where you will suffer tunnel vision and aren't in the calm collected conditions of a shooting range.

BTW, there was a question regarding statistics, and here's a great resource only a month old that uses specific cases and shows a 97% effective rate with calibers far weaker than described above in documented cases: https://www.ammoland.com/2021/06/handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attacks-104-cases-97-effective/ Some of the cases are frightening but interesting reads though, such as a police officer Jerry Ruth that was ambushed with no warning and bit in the face by a grizzly and yet still managed to draw his pistol after the attack and put the grizzly down.

 

[reed scott]

You have to question how much they know about modern ballistics though, as there's been so much advancement even just in recent years and 00 is rather primitive with so much recoil and such a heavy and unwieldy tool to carry. For example solid copper projectiles like Lehigh/Underwood Defender/Penetrator/Hunter series exist that use fluid dynamics rather than soft expanding hollow point can zip through IIA body armor, bullet proof glass, and go straight through both shoulders of a boar, and still have a perfect shape to pop a gallon jug of water. The idea that it can go through all that and yet bounce off the bone on a bear skull is frankly kind of silly IMO, and generally speaking you just aim center mass and shoot as rapidly as you can maintain decent accuracy because you're more likely to hit something crucially vital that way whereas aiming for specific things like the head or neck can be unrealistic in actual emergency situations where you will suffer tunnel vision and aren't in the calm collected conditions of a shooting range.

BTW, there was a question regarding statistics, and here's a great resource only a month old that uses specific cases and shows a 97% effective rate with calibers far weaker than described above in documented cases: https://www.ammoland.com/2021/06/handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attacks-104-cases-97-effective/ Some of the cases are frightening but interesting reads though, such as a police officer Jerry Ruth that was ambushed with no warning and bit in the face by a grizzly and yet still managed to draw his pistol after the attack and put the grizzly down.

Oh be still my beating heart ! Swoooon.

 

[ActionJackson]

Maybe I’m a militant madman in these days of hyper PC, but I think you’ve got to be pretty darn stupid to make camp in bear territory without proper protection or prevention. Bear 1 - Idiot 0.

 

[john peck]

Grizzly bear attacks and kills bicyclist camping in Montana

The attack triggered an intensive search by wildlife officials and law enforcement officers who planned to kill the animal.

www.cbsnews.com

Kinda gruesome,but it happens, a reminder that we do not have exclusive use of the planet.

 

[john peck]

Maybe I’m a militant madman in these days of hyper PC, but I think you’ve got to be pretty darn stupid to make camp in bear territory without proper protection or prevention. Bear 1 - Idiot 0.

Tell me about it, I´m pretty darn stupid myself. I don´t like ta think about my stupid encounters, just glad I´m still here.

 

[ActionJackson]

Tell me about it, I´m pretty darn stupid myself. I don´t like ta think about my stupid encounters, just glad I´m still here.

You’re evolving, and still exist. Therefore getting smarter!

 

[RandallS]

Regarding handguns and bears.
40'ish years ago I played rugby with a couple of Fish and Wildlife Officers in the NW of Alberta Canada.
The area is called Peace Country as a the Peace River runs through it.
The Town I lived in is called Peace River - the river valley was a hoot for MTB riding on my Kuwahara Shasta rigid bike.

They had shotguns and rifles as part of their kit, but not handguns. They wanted them for dealing with bears, but get this, they fully understood that a handgun wasn't optimal, but as my mates explained it: "If you really screw up and the bear gets to you, at least you can try to shove the gun in it's mouth as it's mauling you and keep pulling the trigger. Probably too late but there's no other alternative..."

Yes, they wanted something large bore, and NO they weren't approved. I have no idea if that rule has since been changed or not.
I saw lots of wildlife all over the region including bears, and you took precautions - especially at the local golf course.

 

[reed scott]

Just from a personal experience standpoint, I encounter perhaps half a dozen bears (both griz and black) in a typical year. In all but a handful of those cases the encounters were brief and not a problem.

View attachment 92666

I am not too proud to move camp or make dramatic changes to my plans if there is too much bear activity in the area where I am at. If a bear happened to saunter through my campsite I'd probably move camp about half the time. If that bear made a second appearance I would most certainly leave.

My blood nearly runs cold just looking at this picture.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

My blood nearly runs cold just looking at this picture.

While bears are large wild animals and should always be respected, they aren't particularly dangerous and needn't be feared. And there is a lot of truth to that Hemingway mumbo jumbo about animals being able to smell fear.

To put it in perspective, cows kill far more people every year than bears, and bees kill even more.

 

[reed scott]

While bears are large wild animals and should always be respected, they aren't particularly dangerous and needn't be feared. And there is a lot of truth to that Hemingway mumbo jumbo about animals being able to smell fear.

To put it in perspective, cows kill far more people every year than bears, and bees kill even more.

We have africanized bees here in the Hill Country of TX. They kill and injure many. They really do not like farmers and ranchers running their noisy machines. I'm scared to death of them. And as for bears, I believe you but my nether regions are not logic oriented. They know fight or flight and that's all they are capable of.

 

[JASmith]

To put it in perspective, cows kill far more people every year than bears, and bees kill even more.

And more people probably die in their bathtubs than are killed by tiger sharks just because of frequency of interaction. Personally, I feel safer taking a bubble bath at home than swimming with tiger sharks, but that's just me.

 

[Luto]

You have to question how much they know about modern ballistics though, as there's been so much advancement even just in recent years and 00 is rather primitive with so much recoil and such a heavy and unwieldy tool to carry. For example solid copper projectiles like Lehigh/Underwood Defender/Penetrator/Hunter series exist that use fluid dynamics rather than soft expanding hollow point can zip through IIA body armor, bullet proof glass, and go straight through both shoulders of a boar, and still have a perfect shape to pop a gallon jug of water. The idea that it can go through all that and yet bounce off the bone on a bear skull is frankly kind of silly IMO, and generally speaking you just aim center mass and shoot as rapidly as you can maintain decent accuracy because you're more likely to hit something crucially vital that way whereas aiming for specific things like the head or neck can be unrealistic in actual emergency situations where you will suffer tunnel vision and aren't in the calm collected conditions of a shooting range.

BTW, there was a question regarding statistics, and here's a great resource only a month old that uses specific cases and shows a 97% effective rate with calibers far weaker than described above in documented cases: https://www.ammoland.com/2021/06/handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attacks-104-cases-97-effective/ Some of the cases are frightening but interesting reads though, such as a police officer Jerry Ruth that was ambushed with no warning and bit in the face by a grizzly and yet still managed to draw his pistol after the attack and put the grizzly down.

I don't really have any first hand experience thankfully. Yeah he was an old guy, but he said the sliding of the tissue is common and has seen it happen with other guides 2x. Probably avoidance-alerting them to your presence and letting them move off is best.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

And more people probably die in their bathtubs than are killed by tiger sharks just because of frequency of interaction. Personally, I feel safer taking a bubble bath at home than swimming with tiger sharks, but that's just me.

Then again, how often do any of us encounter cows while outdoors?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

BTW, there was a question regarding statistics, and here's a great resource only a month old that uses specific cases and shows a 97% effective rate with calibers far weaker than described above in documented cases: https://www.ammoland.com/2021/06/handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attacks-104-cases-97-effective/ Some of the cases are frightening but interesting reads though, such as a police officer Jerry Ruth that was ambushed with no warning and bit in the face by a grizzly and yet still managed to draw his pistol after the attack and put the grizzly down.

Okay, a few observations about that article:

One thing that stood out right away is that it mixes several different kinds of bears and bear interactions. Black bears are in general hilariously nonaggressive and if you do tangle with them they are usually pretty easy to fight off -- there have been reports of very small children successfully fighting off black bears (though I do not recommend trying this). Similarly with some of the accounts from Europe in that article -- European bears, while genetically closer to grizzly bears, are generally much less aggressive and on the average smaller than American Bears.

The second thing is actually pretty subtle. One thing interesting about bear attacks is your odds of being attacked go up dramatically if you are alone. If you are in a larger group they are for all practical purposes zero (bears can do math, apparently). If you are a solitary person defending yourself against a bear attack and you are not successful your story is unlikely to make it into that case study, largely because figuring out exactly what happened is somewhere between difficult and impossible. Modern forensics are unlikely to be employed in such a situation and reporting of what actually happened is likely to be very inconsistent and incomplete.

 

[JASmith]

there have been reports of very small children successfully fighting off black bears

Our children are too coddled today and could use some toughing up. "That bear was talking smack about you to the other kids. C'mon Connor, get in there! Here's a spoon to defend yourself with."

Then again, how often do any of us encounter cows while outdoors?

I imagine 5-days a week for anyone in the cattle/dairy industry.

 

[JASmith]

I don't really have any first hand experience thankfully. Yeah he was an old guy, but he said the sliding of the tissue is common and has seen it happen with other guides 2x. Probably avoidance-alerting them to your presence and letting them move off is best.

Oh yeah for sure, they have bear bells or bring me I talk non-stop.

That cop I mentioned before BTW, that was his issue, he was alone 75 yards from his friend and surprised a mother grizzly with her cubs by probably being too quiet. This is a full news article about it. Mad props to the man who had his face in a grizzlies mouth and still managed to save himself, but being louder probably would have avoided the situation entirely: https://trib.com/news/state-and-reg...cle_b71618b3-128d-5e37-bd83-0175182e12ef.html

"Like a flash the bear came out from under some sage brush and she was on me. Grabbed my lower face in her jaw and I could hear the bones breaking. I next became aware that she was off of me. I was on the ground. She was squaring off to take another charge. It was at this time that (I saw) she had three cubs." After the initial attack, Ruth said, he was able to grab his pistol and fire three times at the bear, and the bear dropped dead.