Grin Freegen regen on geared hub

Chargeride said:
If you havent seen it, genius solution for freewheel regen.
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I even do not intend to waste my time to watch this.
The regen only works for Direct Drive motors that are very heavy, and are hopeless climbers. The only sense of using the regen is for long downhill rides in the mountains. Otherwise, you would not be able to coast but were braked by the regen.

As the bike and the rider are pretty lightweight compared to a car (where the regen makes total sense), only a very small amount of the energy can be recovered by the e-bike regen.

Please convince me I should watch the video and that I am very wrong. Because there are many thousand of levolutionary inventions that the Hell is paved with :)
 
Stephan, Please keep your mind closed and don't bother trying to learn anything new. Besides this new concept doesn't involve a big brand name, computers, or dozens of sensors ... you won't like it.

But just to be clear about your statement ... "The regen only works for Direct Drive motors ... "

This is now a patently false statement.

My comments on the ES forum after reviewing the initial (early, not formal) announcement of the technology in Dec 2023.
"Regen with a specialized freewheeling SX2 using a Superharness and enabled via a simple brake sensor trigger so I can keep my hydraulics? ... perfect, I'll be waiting."

endless-sphere.com

New Geared Hubmotor variable-regen e-braking system that still freewheels, by ChargeBike

In this Grin Tech video They discuss a clever new way of engaging and variably controlling regen braking. There's not a lot of detail, but essentially: There isn't an electronic control over the variable regen, it is entirely mechanical. The disc rotor connects not to the shell, but to the...
endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com
 
I’m super stoked. My hub motor has the rotor and the clutch in the same side. I just took delivery of a v5 BaseRunner and CA3. I’m very interested to see if we will see “adapters” for those who wish to convert.
 
@Chargeride:
I have watched the video. Now, I am totally convinced! The thing was designed by a man who had never ridden an e-bike in his life! Not saying anything of not riding it in high mountains!

"A mountain gave birth to a mouse" as we say in Poland. Yes, I could see many revolutionary e-bike inventions that never caught on.

I'd like to hear from early adopters (if the thing would ever get commercialized). If they survive the malfunction of Freegen.

Is anyone of you aware the rear brake is only responsible for around 30% of a bike stopping power? :) Fortunately, early adopters will hopefully their front brake operable :)
 
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Stefan Mikes said:
@Chargeride:
I have watched the video. Now, I am totally convinced! The thing was designed by a man who had never ridden an e-bike in his life! Not saying anything of not riding it in high mountains!

"A mountain gave birth to a mouse" as we say in Poland. Yes, I could see many revolutionary e-bike inventions that never caught on.

I'd like to hear from early adopters (if the thing would ever get commercialized). If they survive the malfunction of Freegen.

Is anyone of you aware the rear brake is only responsible for around 30% of a bike stopping power? :) Fortunately, early adopters will hopefully their front brake operable :)
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A closed mind is a sad thing. So the designer had never ridden an ebike, so what? The designer of a rocket motor had never been to space, the designer of the first airplane had never flown before either. The world is full of great technology from people without practical experience who just had a different/better idea. No, I'm not saying Freegen is on par with these engineering feats but just that you don't have to be a bike rider to design bike parts, even the revolutionary ones ... just someone with some vision and engineering talent.

I guess watching a video and understanding the contents are two different things. Perhaps if they had translated it into Polish it would help? Justen spent quite a bit of time near the end discussing what happens to rear braking in the event of a controller/electrical failure (you don't lose it), including the simple addition of a relay for riding without a battery.

Look, no one is suggesting that Freegen is going to revolutionize the ebike industry. It's just an interesting piece of technology that has the potential to add functionality (energy recovery and braking) to a simple hub motor setup. We already have hub motors that include torque sensing, now combine that with a regen capability on geared motors and you have the potential for a very light weight simple and reliable assist capability for a bike ... without the need for special frames, or other highly integrated and expensive ebike specific technologies.
 
I'm waiting for you to be an early adopter McLewis.
I would say I take your word you equip your e-bike with that contraption whenever available.
However, I wouldn't. You know why?
Because the thing will never come true.

Regarding the safety: You guys riding cheap e-bikes constantly have something that's not working on the electronic side and run around with the multimeter. Now, Justin can talk as much as he can but it would be you riding on a steep descent to discover the thing stopped working for unknown reasons... and hopefully your front brake would be still working.

Finally: You think I don't understand English? :D Well, at least I do understand technology and can detect bullshit when I hear it :)

"A closed mind": How do you call American people who say it? These are called "Confederates" in Poland :D
 
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Stephan, We've had this conversation a number of times and you seem to either not understand or completely ignore the reality.

My ebikes are put together by myself from quality components (both the acoustic part and the ebike part) and after 10s of thousands of kms I haven't had a single failure, not even a "glitch". There's nothing cheap or unreliable here. My multimeter hasn't ever seen my ebikes. I ride in all types of weather in my city on the streets and MUPs and through the countryside over a number of rolling hills with a few nasty climbs. There are many many thousands of Grin customers who experience the same level of reliability from their plug n play or as Grin calls them "ready to roll" kits. If however someone wanted to integrate different displays, controllers or motors then yes, they are going to be doing some low level work but they are also likely going to be customizing a whole range of characteristics that are not available on the market today (bigger motors, larger batteries, dual motors, higher wattages, unique designs - trikes, quads, etc., solar charging, powered trailers, etc. etc.). There's a vast world of ebike designs and uses available to DIYers that the commercial market has no idea about and would charge a small fortune for if they did.

You keep harping on the potential for brake failure in the FreeGen design. Perhaps you should take a closer look and notice the brake rotor is directly coupled to the hub motor's rotor or clutch assembly. With no electronics or even power available (and the stator windings shorted) there is still a built in braking action inherent to all similar electric motors ... that's the failsafe part of the design. So you will always have both front and rear braking action, but yes in the worst case there isn't full rear braking capability but it's still substantial. I do look forward to trying a FreeGen installation, and while descending a suitably large hill turning off the electronics and expecting to brake to a comfortable stop.

As I suggested in my response on the ES FreeGen thread, yes I do look forward to the release of a commercial version of FreeGen on the Shengyi SX hub motor. I'd love to also see it with a built in torque sensor but I'm not holding my breath on that one so I'd have to "make do" with a nice progressive power based cadence PAS control. A ready to roll kit with the Superharness and display would complete things, making what would appear to be a simple upgrade. Overall though I would still need to see the price points before I committed my credit card, but it's all roughly in the time frame where I will be considering a new SX (or similar) motor for one of my existing ebikes (just another benefit of a DIY configuration - motors tend to wear out long before frames).
 
Stefan Mikes said:
The regen only works for Direct Drive motors that are very heavy, and are hopeless climbers.
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Completely wrong. You commonly make this kind of mistake because of your habit of just reacting with vitriol without any actual knowledge of the subject at hand. You are spouting off on a different kind of motor, and you are completely oblivious to this since by your own admission you don't know what it is we are talking about.
Stefan Mikes said:
The only sense of using the regen is for long downhill rides in the mountains. Otherwise, you would not be able to coast but were braked by the regen.
Click to expand...
If you knew the real subject, you would have never typed this. Everything you are saying is true ... of something that is not being discussed or described here.
Stefan Mikes said:
As the bike and the rider are pretty lightweight compared to a car (where the regen makes total sense), only a very small amount of the energy can be recovered by the e-bike regen.
Click to expand...
Small percentage is greater than zero percentage. And the benefit is not limited to power recovery, which is a new element to the equation. IIRC the recovery was rated in the 10-13% range which is especially good seeing as this new method of regen is *entirely* invisible to the riding experience.
Stefan Mikes said:
Please convince me I should watch the video and that I am very wrong. Because there are many thousand of levolutionary inventions that the Hell is paved with :)
Click to expand...
How about this: If you watched the video you wouldn't be spouting off-topic nonsense everyone but you recognizes as such, because they informed themselves before speaking.
 
Had a sophomore college roommate who was seldom right but never in doubt — a poster child for half-cocked, ill-informed, pig-headed thinking. Strong, immovable opinions about everything. Anyone who disagreed with him — or dared to do something differently — was in his mind ignorant, incompetent, stupid, or worse.

Takeaway from that VERY long 4 months: People like that show you who they are early on. You'll never change their mind about anything. And they never, ever take responsibility for the trouble they cause. Sure, they have some good qualities, but life is too short.

Had to move out to keep out of the headlines:
Normally peace-loving college student strangles roomate

But no need to move out on EBR. Relief is just an [Ignore] button away.
 
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Seems odd to argue against such an innovation.
It appears that it would be a little to no additional cost feature add on to an already well established hub motor.
It's like being against the addition of the anti lock feature on your auto braking.
I'm not a hub motor user nor do I plan on being one anytime soon... but I can appreciate the clever and simple solution.
 
I’ve got this Shengyi motor. I’m really interested in this. Though, I don’t want to have to buy a V6 BaseRunner and superharness. I literally just bought an V5 BaseRunner and am currently installing it. I’m thinking that, if/when I ever alter my motor to have this method of regen, I could use the existing way on modulating the regen force. That is, once braking is engaged, I could use another throttle, or POT, to modulate regen intensity.
 
Being fairly new to eBikes I am not sure if I fully understand what he is saying, at the same time I get the feeling this is revolutionary - Bright Minds - Wow
 
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