Giant - Please build a Road-E touring edition

[michael mcvey]

Giant — if your listening...

Build a Road-E touring edition.

I have a Road-E and I have set it up for touring. But Giant you could improve the bike with a few small enhancements.

The good - Yamaha 250 Watt motor. The computer display showing percent remaining is very good and seems accurate.

This 250 Watt motor and 500 Watt hour battery yields me 90-100 miles with my riding style which is mostly in eco mode and rider putting in a good effort. BTW - I never use the setting - Power.

* Need to have a range of 125 miles. Today I carry a second battery (500 watts) but I only use a small percent of the second battery to achieve the 125 miles. A larger battery 600-650 Watts meets this requirement and eliminates the need to carry the second battery. Or switch to new battery cells 2170.

* Change the mode settings from 3 (eco, normal, power) to 5 as follows:
Setting 1 - lowest - this setting should just compensate for motor drag and bike weight, this setting would emulate riding a normal non-bike and use very little battery.
Setting 2 - same as Eco mode
Setting 3 - Halfway between Eco and normal
Setting 4 - Halfway between Normal and power
Setting 5 - same as power

The purpose for these 5 settings is to help the rider conserve battery consumption. This should also help to achieve 125 miles per charge. I like the idea for Setting 1 as it provides just enough power to simulate riding a normal bike and it should use less watts then the current Eco mode.

* Offer an internal gear hub - I.e. Rohloff hub
Show gear on computer display
* Integrated High End front light mounted at fork crown, and rear light with on/off switch and powered by main battery
* Eyelets front and rear to accommodate BikePacking bags and cages.
* External USB port on computer display for charging Garmin or cell phone
* Display Watts per mile or some equivalent instantaneous.

 

[drewberz]

battery technology is the limiting factor. they can't build such a bike...yet. you could also get that by making it a class 1 (ie 20mph) bike. at those speeds, there's less drag. but you get great mileage! i haven't seen anything close to that. although i don't ride the way you do. your setting 1 seems mostly pointless tbh. why not just ride a normal bike in that case? those mode settings do exist too in the '2018' version. as for your other recs, i think:

the hub is too costly so it wouldn't make sense for their price point. the giant isn't a super high-end electric.
the lights are good. i added some to mine but integrated is even better/cleaner/theft-resistant.
mine has eyelets for fenders and panniers. i like the idea of some sort of 'All-Adventure' e-bike. kind of like the Tamland.
mine also has a USB port on the display. it's 5W. i forget the voltage but it's standard USB.
i think displays will become more and more developed/integrated so i expect some partnering in the next revisions.

seems you are talking high-end niche (e-bikes) within a niche (power meters), not sure if that's where the market is headed, but i expect more aftermarket support in the future.

 

[VirgilCaine]

So, would you say the yamaha motor is going to give you the best range among the mid-drives ?
If you are touring, are you still going to get the same mileage with another 20 pounds on the bike ?

 

[michael mcvey]

Drew
The battery technology does exist today in the form of the new 21700 cell. The 21700 cell is what Tesla is using in the new model 3. Samsung, Panasonic and now Tesla are all producing it. The 21700 cell is close to the same footprint as the current 18650 cell but provides (I have read) up to 40% more capacity. Its very possible that using this cell we may see 600-800 Watt hours in the same footprint as a 500 watt hour battery. Luna cycle has a 1,456 watt hour battery on the new APEX using the Samsung 21700 cell. The battery fits within the frame triangle. This is the first Ebike to come to market with the new 21700 cell. I'm just suggesting a bump up to 650-700 from the current 500 watt hour. It is very doable today!

I agree that the Rohloff hub may be out of the current pricing model. So maybe offer a 1*11 drive instead of the 2*11. I rarely use the small chainring.

The idea for the mode 1 (which simulates a normal bike) is that many times on a 100 mile day (0 grade, no headwind or a slight tailwind) I don't need the motor to maintain the desired speed (14-18), but if I turn the motor off the drag/cogging causes the rider(me) to put in more effort than I would on a normal bike. Mode 1 would just compensate for the cogging and use very little energy.

Virgil, I believe the Yamaha 250 watt motor is ideal for this touring purpose. I personally don't even need the full 250 watt power. I'm no expert so can't say if its the best size. 10-20 extra pounds carried on the bike is not a big factor.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

It is very disappointing, given how great an invention the three-bolt bidon is, how few companies provide three-bolt bidons.

As for eyelets, I wish the bike companies would say, "we provide eyelets compatible with tubus racks:" and leave it at that. Or Old Man Mountain, or Arkel. Just choose a company that makes great racks and go with them.

 

[Gator]

Drew
The battery technology does exist today in the form of the new 21700 cell. The 21700 cell is what Tesla is using in the new model 3. Samsung, Panasonic and now Tesla are all producing it. The 21700 cell is close to the same footprint as the current 18650 cell but provides (I have read) up to 40% more capacity. Its very possible that using this cell we may see 600-800 Watt hours in the same footprint as a 500 watt hour battery. Luna cycle has a 1,456 watt hour battery on the new APEX using the Samsung 21700 cell. The battery fits within the frame triangle. This is the first Ebike to come to market with the new 21700 cell. I'm just suggesting a bump up to 650-700 from the current 500 watt hour. It is very doable today!

I agree that the Rohloff hub may be out of the current pricing model. So maybe offer a 1*11 drive instead of the 2*11. I rarely use the small chainring.

The idea for the mode 1 (which simulates a normal bike) is that many times on a 100 mile day (0 grade, no headwind or a slight tailwind) I don't need the motor to maintain the desired speed (14-18), but if I turn the motor off the drag/cogging causes the rider(me) to put in more effort than I would on a normal bike. Mode 1 would just compensate for the cogging and use very little energy.

Virgil, I believe the Yamaha 250 watt motor is ideal for this touring purpose. I personally don't even need the full 250 watt power. I'm no expert so can't say if its the best size. 10-20 extra pounds carried on the bike is not a big factor.

The news about the batteries is excellent! I think we might see some manufacturers offering this in 2019-2020 possibly. I would like to know if there is a way to send a factory battery off to be rebuilt with these new cells.

I don't know if this model will improve your mileage but it might be worth looking at.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/toughroad-gx-eplus-2018