Geared hub choices, any advice welcome.

[Win]

Gidday, I'm in New Zealand so the great majority of brands discussed are not available here but I can see there's a lot of good advice and experience over there.
I'm really keen to avoid derailleurs and the choices here are Shimano Nexus and Allfine and Nuvinci 380. Very few bikes are available with these hubs and in fact Kiwis only just seem to be waking up to them. Asking advice in a shop is a waste of time. I get the feeling there are some issues with the Nuvinci or was with earlier models? Is the Allfine really that superior to the Nexus?? The Nuvinci 380 offers a very wide ratio, probably better than the 8 speed Shimanos but are they much heavier? I've seen no bikes advertised with 11 speed Shimano.
Gates belt drive is making an appearance now. What's their reliability like?
I'd really appreciate some discussion on this but maybe there are already threads about this stuff I could be directed to. By the way, I'm not a hard-out mountain biker, at 70 I'm looking for something for commuting and doing easier bike trails.
Cheers, Win

 

[indianajo]

Uh, IGH is cool for a power bike, but human power an IGH dragged me down about 10%. I had a sturmeyarcher S80, which I don't recommend. Shifter cable pawl pops off. Shimano alfine looks to be a better deal. Nuvinci 380 has useful ratios for hilly areas, but they are even less efficient than an alfine.
I'm back to derailleurs, I gave up on cheapo shimano, broke a 6 speed axle (gross weight <300 lb) and a 7 speed shimano the nuts came unscrewed and dropped all the balls 5 miles from home. Long push. SRAM are really easier to adjust than the cheapo 7 speed shimanos on kid bikes. The 8 to 11 speed shimanos may be premium, but I don't really want more speeds than 8. That is what came on the bike left, sram 8 speed shifter with shimano sprocket cluster. I had to back off to 7 speed when I electrified, since the DD hub motor doesn't leave enough space for an 8 speed sprocket cluster. My bike gets rained on all the time and the KMC chain is working fine after 16 months. I oil it about monthly with a pump oiler and 5 w sus 32 hydraulic fluid, non-additive grade. Also all the shifter pivots cables anc controllers.
Note cheapo kiddy cables can make you adjust a derailleur all the time, too. Whatever came with the bike left is fine, but it cost $1600 unpowered. Jaguar is a respected shifter cable. for aftermarket I got some bills stainless steel shiter cable from niagaracycle.com. That e-commerce site is dead now, ****.

 

[AlanDB]

I really like my Gazelle Arroyo with the Nexus 8 IGH. The Nexus and Bosch Performance Line motor seem to be a nice match for a natural smooth ride. The Nexus 8 gives me all the gear range I need for the type of riding I do. I normally ride in Eco mode assist level. On smooth level surfaces I usually start in 1st or 2nd gear and upshift as I increase speed to keep a consistent cadence. I seldom use 8th gear unless I want to go over 16 or 17 MPH.

 

[Win]

Thanks for that guys. I envy your wide choice of gear and the ability to customize a lot of stuff. It seems that to get the bike style I want, "hybrid", for road and easier cycle trails I'll have to go with derailleurs. No producer seems to use IGH on those bikes and there must be a good reason for that.

 

[TrevorB]

The Nexus and Alfine 8spd hubs have good reputation for reliability. Nexus uses throttle type shifter while Alfine uses trigger shifter and is better option for quicker shifting. Neither will shift under load, so you need to easy up or stop pedalling. They are limited to 50nm torque, ie Shimano E6000, Bosch Active and Active plus. Performance line is rated for 63nm, but are detuned for factory bikes with Nexus or Alfine. The 300% range when when used with 50nm motor will climb most hills, not recommend for MTBing but OK rail trail type riding. You can lower factory gear, needs to be kept to 2:1 ratio or greater eg >= 40t chainring with 20t rear sprocket.

Ideally buy bike with IGH but do be afraid to lower gearing. With 2:1 you spinout about 35kmhr, so fine for 32kmhr assist cutoff.

Avoid Alfine 11spd, has mix reviews on reliability when used with motor.

 

[NWMI]

The Nexus and Alfine 8spd hubs …... They are limited to 50nm torque, ie Shimano E6000, Bosch Active and Active plus. Performance line is rated for 63nm, but are detuned for factory bikes with Nexus or Alfine.

Tevor, I am looking at a bike with Nexus 8 IGH and motor has 95 nm of torque (500 watt Dapu mid drive) , so how would the 95 nm torque of the motor work with the 50 nm limitation of the Nexus hub that you mention?

 

[NWMI]

Can anyone please help me with the above? Is anything over 50 nm of torque lost on Nexus 8 because the motor will need to be governed to 50 nm so as to not overpower the hub? I am looking at a bike that has 95 nm but Nexus 8 IGH.

Also is IGH not as good for hills as derailleur? I have 1/2 mile hill, 225 feet of rise to climb.

 

[Scarecrow]

Gidday, I'm in New Zealand so the great majority of brands discussed are not available here but I can see there's a lot of good advice and experience over there.
I'm really keen to avoid derailleurs and the choices here are Shimano Nexus and Allfine and Nuvinci 380. Very few bikes are available with these hubs and in fact Kiwis only just seem to be waking up to them. Asking advice in a shop is a waste of time. I get the feeling there are some issues with the Nuvinci or was with earlier models? Is the Allfine really that superior to the Nexus?? The Nuvinci 380 offers a very wide ratio, probably better than the 8 speed Shimanos but are they much heavier? I've seen no bikes advertised with 11 speed Shimano.
Gates belt drive is making an appearance now. What's their reliability like?
I'd really appreciate some discussion on this but maybe there are already threads about this stuff I could be directed to. By the way, I'm not a hard-out mountain biker, at 70 I'm looking for something for commuting and doing easier bike trails.
Cheers, Win

Perhaps another way to search is to go here to see who is building eBikes with the Gates Belt Drive:
https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/bike-brands

And please know that Evelo makes maybe the most Nuvinci and (maybe) Gates-equipped eBikes in the industry (if you are looking at eBikes): www.evelo.com
They have several options that suit your stated needs. Galaxy. Aurora. Quest (folding bike). You do not need a hugely powerful motor for commuting and eaiser bike trails. This is exactly what I'm looking for, too -- but I'm holding out for their new Fall lineup -- supposedly to have a new 750W motor (other than Bafang - believed to be Dapu), Gates Belt Drive, and step-thru design (like the Aurora). Evelo bypasses the "restraints" on powering the Gates with more than a 250W (perhaps 350W), unlike so many other manufacturers, because they Warranty them instead of the factory. Now, having said that, I do not know if it will help you in New Zealand.

I spent a great deal of time at their Seattle, WA location in April discussing my concerns -- and every answer was reassuring. They claim to only ever have to Warranty two of these each year. If something goes wrong they will ship you a completely new setup, in exchange for your existing one. Their latest Aurora Mid-Drive just posted, with two motor options but does not mention the Gates Belt Drive. These are 500W and 750W. Carrying capacity Rating up to 350lbs. The chain drive is not mentioned, but the photo does NOT appear to be a Gates Drive. They ARE using Nuvinci integrated Hubs on these: https://www.evelo.com/electric-bicycles/aurora/

Contact them to see if they can help in your quest.