Following Yamaha out the door: Stromer is bailing out of the US Market

Stromer used to sell its extremely expensive, overengineered, proprietary, hub-drive motor S-Pedelecs mostly in the countries where 45 km/h (28 mph) is allowed, and it is mostly Switzerland and the United States. Elsewhere (notably in the European Union), Stromers fall in the category of L1e-B, which is a moped with all the consequences arising from that. S-Pedelecs have never caught in the EU, and there are fewer and fewer speed e-bikes offered there. If Stromer had to leave the United States then I guess the brand would soon share the fate of Van Moof.
 
Friend of the forum, @Ravi Kempaiah was once setting speed and distance records on a Stromer, covered here by Court and at the now defunct Electric Bike Action magazine. Probably around the same time when Chris Nolte at Propel ebikes in NYC was going gangbusters. Haibike USA was the big kahuna of US ebike sellers with a bike model lineup that addressed every type of ebike, from commuters, trekkers, mountain bikers to fat bikers. Even had a 24 inch tire ebike for young kids. Yamaha saw an oppourtunity with the sales of Haibike-Yamaha powered ebikes selling well and jumped in the game. Crazy Lenny's up in Wisconsin had a national presence, selling the major ebike brands powered by Bosch and Yamaha. My fat tired Haibike, powered by Yamaha, still sits in my garage to this day, bought at an insanely low price at Lenny's. Lots of changes in the past 2 or 3 years, not for the better. It almost has the feel of the 1970's moped explosion in popularity when the Arab oil embargos had many people (myself included) buying a moped to get around town locally at 100 miles per gallon. Will ebikes become a niche like the moped has become?

Yamaha and now, Stromer are like the canary in the coal mine. Along with Haibike and every other major, mid to high end ebike manufacturer who has failed or backed out of our US market, the largest economic powerhouse in the world. For sure, Stromer as documented on this forum, has had a long term issue with customer service. That goes a long way in turning customers off and away from buying in. But these days ever since Yamaha announced they were quitting us, I'm not feeling too comfortable holding onto my Haibike with it's 4 external, proprietary Yamaha batteries that nobody can rebuild. When an old line and celebrated company like Yamaha leaves, it leaves a sour taste for the entire ebike game. Kinda like Chevy or Ford or Mopar stopped making fun cars like Camaro or Challenger.......oh, wait a minute, that happened, too!

And I fear some old line ebike sellers in our country, many who made this forum so fun to visit, are feeling a ton of pressure right about now. We are in a bad way, economically these days. And the ebike market is that canary in the coal mine.
 
Friend of the forum, @Ravi Kempaiah was once setting speed and distance records on a Stromer, covered here by Court and at the now defunct Electric Bike Action magazine. Probably around the same time when Chris Nolte at Propel ebikes in NYC was going gangbusters. Haibike USA was the big kahuna of US ebike sellers with a bike model lineup that addressed every type of ebike, from commuters, trekkers, mountain bikers to fat bikers. Even had a 24 inch tire ebike for young kids. Yamaha saw an oppourtunity with the sales of Haibike-Yamaha powered ebikes selling well and jumped in the game. Crazy Lenny's up in Wisconsin had a national presence, selling the major ebike brands powered by Bosch and Yamaha. My fat tired Haibike, powered by Yamaha, still sits in my garage to this day, bought at an insanely low price at Lenny's. Lots of changes in the past 2 or 3 years, not for the better. It almost has the feel of the 1970's moped explosion in popularity when the Arab oil embargos had many people (myself included) buying a moped to get around town locally at 100 miles per gallon. Will ebikes become a niche like the moped has become?

Yamaha and now, Stromer are like the canary in the coal mine. Along with Haibike and every other major, mid to high end ebike manufacturer who has failed or backed out of our US market, the largest economic powerhouse in the world. For sure, Stromer as documented on this forum, has had a long term issue with customer service. That goes a long way in turning customers off and away from buying in. But these days ever since Yamaha announced they were quitting us, I'm not feeling too comfortable holding onto my Haibike with it's 4 external, proprietary Yamaha batteries that nobody can rebuild. When an old line and celebrated company like Yamaha leaves, it leaves a sour taste for the entire ebike game. Kinda like Chevy or Ford or Mopar stopped making fun cars like Camaro or Challenger.......oh, wait a minute, that happened, too!

And I fear some old line ebike sellers in our country, many who made this forum so fun to visit, are feeling a ton of pressure right about now. We are in a bad way, economically these days. And the ebike market is that canary in the coal mine.

I'm actually surprised Stromer lasted here as long as they did. In response to 'What is going on here?', I'll add a few observations.

The heady 'good, old days' were also a time when people saw $$ to be made by jumping on the bandwagon. As a result,

1. US skeleton crews. I was recently told "R+M is on vacation" in response to a non-mundane technical issue. I had visions of the entire company on holiday, but what this actually meant is 'the lone US sales guy we route tech/support through is on vacay.'

If you're going to conquer strange people in a strange land, a greater level of investment may be necessary. Building out a dealer network dedicated to sales is inefficient when it's a support bottleneck. The question is: What percentage of customers can you afford to alienate? 5%? 10%? What is the balance between brand loyalists-evangelists vs 'never again'?

2. Know your market. These articles always pounce on "Americans love throttles" + "Americans worship cars" in a judgmental tone. The same marketing dollars inspire these perspectives.

I say this as someone born in Europe: the US has an awesome national park system, drawing both domestic and a substantial number of international visitors. I recently listened to an interview with Levi Conlow, founder of Lectric. His first bike, sub-$1k, was a total flop, which forced him to properly engage with potential clients for design/feature list 2.0 And he raved about retired seniors with RVs hitting the national parks as free and highly effective marketing. Some random guy from AZ conquered the market, while the throttle-shamers are exiting with their expensive, thinly-supported bikes.

How many times have you seen a prospective purchaser dismiss a throttleless brand immediately? I think very highly of Bosch eBike systems, but this inflexibility around a feature that is technically simple to integrate, coupled to a high price tag, is limiting, which is why Trek is no longer Bosch-exclusive. Their throttle model is capped at 20mph -- why is this referred to as a moped by some?

I am legitimately 'car-free' but enjoy a good car show while riding through the American Midwest. I also highly recommend the Studebaker museum in South Bend, IN.

I commute weekly between Washington and Baltimore, so I speak from experience. I'm an all-weather rider, so I'm not going to argue I need a car for inclement weather. The cost of the 'niche' bike; its maintenance and the bike's limited lifespan make the cost per mile prohibitive, esp as compared to cars. You can make arguments about gas/insurance, but I suspect Americans will still prefer the car's high mileage lifetime under a paygo plan, no matter the outcome of cost-benefit analysis.

I can use regional rail (MARC shoutout), but here we are again. What makes sense for that first- or last mile? Heavy+overpriced or a more nimble, less expensive model? Oh, and cargo bikes are explicitly forbidden on board.

Evangelists or 'influencers' associated with dealers or brands are generally not motivated or equipped to address these issues.

3. COVID was manna from heaven for bike brands and dealerships; not just the spike in demand but the 'essential' status and its benefits conferred by government. I know of several bike shops that were barely making it pre-COVID who sold every bit of inventory, bikes and parts, then sold their shops to new blood. OTOH, there were the 'All hail the bike boom, may it last forever' types who ordered optimistically. Enter (boon to consumers or bottom feeders, depending on your perspective) Upway and similar, who scarfed up Stromers and R+Ms by the barrel, reselling low-to-no mileage bikes at a far friendlier price! When you lose the margins on these high-end bikes, it's over.
 
Last edited:
I didn't realize top of line Stromers were that expensive these days. Quick google of old prices...
2024 ST5 $11.6K
2022 ST3 $ 9.2K
2017 ST1 $ 4.95K
2015 SR2 $7K

I drove three hours to Wisconsin in 2015 and bought our first ebike (EG Maui) from Crazy Lenny, meeting the owner. The bike didn't run when they took it out of the warehouse, so they called the EG owner, who told them to reseat the display connector. I don't have it any more, but it's still running fine for the second owner and original battery still works.

.It was not quite the Gilded Age of ebiking, but the ticket was pretty high in those days. Guys like Crazy Lenny brought the market down to the appliance level, offering a great range of bikes.

I recall. earlier that year, Sonders had finally received his containers of single speed, $500 500W fat tire bikes and that business model was proven to make money. Rad did it a better. Lectric got ventire capital, and became a giant. Today, anyone with decals is still trying to make a little money,

Ebikes is a tough business, if you're down at the sales guy level, I think most are in those stores for a love of biking.
 
If you're going to conquer strange people in a strange land, a greater level of investment may be necessary. Building out a dealer network dedicated to sales is inefficient when it's a support bottleneck.

I remember a couple of years back seeing a youtube rant by a US bike shop owner and former Orbea dealer. He said Orbea's relationship with US dealers was terrible and he eventually realised it was all down to the guy Orbea had hired in US to rep them. He was just a terrible unreliable businessman. A major brand has their reputation trashed because they didn't bother to pay attention to satellite staffing. Seems madness when you look at size of potential market.
 
More of the EU based eBike sellers are leaving the US than entering. It's been going on for a few years actually. Main reason is the popularity of the RAD and Lectric and online sales type inexpensive models that are more attractive to the American public over the EU cyclist culture which demand a higher quality, read higher price, type eBike. I doubt you would see many, if any, folding fat tire eBikes anywhere other than here in the US and they seem to be about the most popular models as well as the scooter types.

Pierer going out of business is going to take away KTM, Husqvarna and Gas Gas ebikes soon as well.
 
I've tested an ST3, and honestly, it was really nice. My other top-dollar comparisons would be the Santa Cruz Skitch, Riese and Muller Delite, Specialized Vado 5.0, and Creo 2.
The Skitch (***meant to say STROMER ST3) was shockingly compliant without suspension, and quieter than anything else by a mile. The regen braking was seamless and a feature I'd use all the time. It was an impressive piece of engineering.
Can't imagine people were thrilled to spend $7-10k on an e-bike that had to sit in a shop (really, the dealer only because it's all proprietary). Maybe if they dropped all of the proprietary nonsense + increased reliability they wouldn't have been rejected so often on principle.
 
Last edited:
Maybe if they dropped the price? US$ 11 k is S-Works but not a hub-drive :)
Dropping the price means competing directly with Trek, Specialized and Tern. Trek has a very large footprint, of course, very visible. Specialized is well-known. I have yet to meet anyone with a Tern complaint IRL, and I see a lot of their bikes on the road. The sub-forum here is also issue-free every time I visit it.

My first ebike was a Tern Vektron purchased 8 yrs ago. I still use it frequently. I've put so many miles on it that the pain points are in their second cycle: the plastic SKS chainguard breaks at its thinnest point and the kickstand breaks. Small prices to pay over 8yrs. This bike fell into the Chesapeake Bay, submerged for at least 10min. After the rescue, I was riding in Turbo. 1.5yrs later, just needed grease for the front bearing. Kudos to Bosch and Tern.

I met two guys from the Tern US team summer '23 and was amazed to hear that the full staff is (at the time) less than 6 persons give or take. So it is possible to maintain a lean stateside office with good communication between the mothership and dealers. Some years ago I ordered parts through Electricity (RM/Tern dealer at the time) in WashDC. They could not give me an ETA, so after a while, I contacted Tern. The service manager told me the parts were sitting at Electricity and backed it up with tracking. I couldn't ask for more.

But, wait! The Vektron S10 I purchased 8 yrs ago has been upgraded from ActiveLine to Performance Line + some other component upgrades. The bike is $200 cheaper today!!! Tern seems to be doing most things right.

Trek, Specialized and Tern all have higher-end models. I also think Trek is smart to add a throttle/hub model. My Tern experience prompted me to spend more. Some of the lower-end Trek buyers will graduate to the mid- to higher-end offerings, or even if not, sales support the entire line. Similarly, I think Zen is doing the right thing with Photon+Samurai.

Product options, reliability and support. I've actually wanted a Stromer since 2015 but the lack of support scared me off. And that 2G - 3G transition, yikes.
 
Do you imply Stromer e-bikes are better than the brands you mentioned? :)
Great question. Better isn't the right word. Stromer and R+M are more innovative; more likely to integrate the latest tech. This is very attractive if you're the early adopter type, especially when it's a feature you've been waiting for. I am not a Specialized expert, but Trek and Tern tend to incorporate new features more conservatively. I find it very interesting that the relatively new Tern Orox model is based on manual Rohloff shifting instead of E14. I think this is wise if you're promoting biking in more remote areas.

The support for these three brands is light years better, at least in the US. The niche brands offer a high mark-up to their dealers who are obviously incentivized to sell to users who (1) sell their bikes after 'only 150 miles,' instantly voiding their warranties, or (2) low-mileage users in dense cities. It's the fitness club model, in which a solid fraction never use their membership, thereby subsidizing the cost of maintenance, equipment etc associated with power users who are not driving profits. I don't know the business model for Trek but sense it is less sensitive to this end user ratio. I do know they are *less* likely to experience situations as costly or time-consuming, precisely bc design considerations are more tried and true.
 
Wow! I've been looking closely at ebikes out on highways and trails for quite some time and have yet to see a Stromer here in SoCal. Fairly Elusive and I can see why.

I look for a few things in an ebike manufacturer:
1. Price
2. Quality Parts, drivetrain.
3. Dealer customer facing support.

I see so many brands with different names that look exactly the same, but when you look closely you see different components with names you've never heard of and have no clue of the quality or support.

My overall feeling at these e-bikes from a consumer's point of view, is most of them are purchased for short trips around town or weekend blasts up the bike trails; and focused on light usage.
The high dollar over 3K Market is definitely a Niche and fat wallets.
And that's just my two cents as a consumer not here to offend anyone.
 
Stromer and R+M are more innovative; more likely to integrate the latest tech.
@dblhelix trust me, I read you carefully and am not that far from your viewpoint.
What I think is "innovative, integrate" means "Van Moof bankruptcy". With yet more to come. In my opinion, Stromer is nowhere innovative with their Direct Drive proprietary hub motor. While other brands are deep into mid-drives, go for better connectivity, try new markets (such as low power lightweight e-bikes).

Riese & Muller? Let us wait and see.

I look for a few things in an ebike manufacturer:
1. Price
2. Quality Parts, drivetrain.
3. Dealer customer facing support.

I see so many brands with different names that look exactly the same, but when you look closely you see different components with names you've never heard of and have no clue of the quality or support.
Exactly!
 
I look for a few things in an ebike manufacturer:
1. Price
2. Quality Parts, drivetrain.
3. Dealer customer facing support.

I looked at price, and brand name components with nothing proprietary on the the e-bike. (except the controller/display which seemed to be unavoidable?)

I expected no customer support at all, and voided my warranty the first day both my e-bikes arrived.

My battery stopped working on my first ebike and I fixed it myself.

It may well have been fixed for free under warranty, but I would have had to ship the battery back, with HAZ-MAT shipping at my expense and wait months for it to be returned.
 
@dblhelix trust me, I read you carefully and am not that far from your viewpoint.
What I think is "innovative, integrate" means "Van Moof bankruptcy". With yet more to come. In my opinion, Stromer is nowhere innovative with their Direct Drive proprietary hub motor. While other brands are deep into mid-drives, go for better connectivity, try new markets (such as low power lightweight e-bikes).

Riese & Muller? Let us wait and see.


Exactly!
To be fair, back in 2015-2016 Stromer represented the top-of-the-line. Stromer was a first love, and you know how it is with first loves: What could have been? And the siren song of Pinion! I also liked Kalkhoff back then. I went to an expo in '16, test rode the Integrale S11 + received a $200 off coupon. What held me back was my research in the European pedelec forums which revealed the high failure rate of the Impulse Evo engine. Kalkhoff saved me from myself by ... drum roll ... Exiting the US market! Some time later, I read they switched to Bosch.

With R+M it's the QC Russian roulette. My first R+M (a Charger) was extremely solid, mechanically, and a pleasure to ride. I wish I'd kept it. A 2017 Delite in that bronze color would still tempt me, as I don't mind the PowerPacks hanging off the frame. My current R+M, a Load60, is a disaster and all I will say at present is not one penny was expended on warranty coverage. "Let's see if the problem goes away on its own."

I don't think they are selling well. In 2023 the WashDC dealer closed due to the owner passing away. A new R+M dealership was established in nearby Bethesda, MD, a shop with a very good reputation that took over the original dealer's 2023 floor stock and put it up for sale at a discount late '23. Some eight months later at end of season, they announced they'd sold 1/3 of it. The Bethesda-Potomac/NW DC area is top ten by income, so this doesn't bode well at all.
 
I'll chime in with another point of view. For me a bicycle is meant to ride with a purpose, meaning you're doing it for exercise or you're doing it for transportation or just general Good Times.
I want a bike with good components and simplicity, turn off, turn on!

I hope all this new technology that's being added to these motor systems have longevity and don't become warranty nightmares. I can see that being another e-bike demise issue.
 
To be fair, back in 2015-2016 Stromer represented the top-of-the-line. Stromer was a first love, and you know how it is with first loves: What could have been? And the siren song of Pinion! I also liked Kalkhoff back then. I went to an expo in '16, test rode the Integrale S11 + received a $200 off coupon. What held me back was my research in the European pedelec forums which revealed the high failure rate of the Impulse Evo engine. Kalkhoff saved me from myself by ... drum roll ... Exiting the US market! Some time later, I read they switched to Bosch.

With R+M it's the QC Russian roulette. My first R+M (a Charger) was extremely solid, mechanically, and a pleasure to ride. I wish I'd kept it. A 2017 Delite in that bronze color would still tempt me, as I don't mind the PowerPacks hanging off the frame. My current R+M, a Load60, is a disaster and all I will say at present is not one penny was expended on warranty coverage. "Let's see if the problem goes away on its own."

I don't think they are selling well. In 2023 the WashDC dealer closed due to the owner passing away. A new R+M dealership was established in nearby Bethesda, MD, a shop with a very good reputation that took over the original dealer's 2023 floor stock and put it up for sale at a discount late '23. Some eight months later at end of season, they announced they'd sold 1/3 of it. The Bethesda-Potomac/NW DC area is top ten by income, so this doesn't bode well at all.
Hello,
I was reading your post and saw that you had a few really nice high-end e-bikes.
I also saw that you were able to sell them and was wondering what type of forum you used to sell them?

My experience in selling bikes in the past has come with a huge depreciation. I'm guessing that e-bikes are no different. Thanks in advance.
 
Hello,
I was reading your post and saw that you had a few really nice high-end e-bikes.
I also saw that you were able to sell them and was wondering what type of forum you used to sell them?

My experience in selling bikes in the past has come with a huge depreciation. I'm guessing that e-bikes are no different. Thanks in advance.
The Charger was a dealer trade-in. It was a NuVinci drivetrain, and at the time, I was told a Rohloff conversion was too difficult/expensive.

I feel people have had some success with the forsale forum here. I've seen plenty of R+Ms sold, and many other brands as well. I do agree about the depreciation hit. If it's a Bosch bike (or similar), a report with battery cycles, odometer etc will go a long way if the overall package is sold as 'near new.' Some bikes seem to hold their value better than others -- depends on all the stuff we're talking about here, reliability & support. You can co-list at CL/FM but use caution.

It used to be the case that ppl offered comments on asking price in the forsale subforum, but the ability to comment was turned off when some folks started attacking the seller as being delusional. Before putting your bike up, I might go to the brand subforum and ask for an evaluation. People do that all the time on FB, reddit. Good luck!
 
Back