Finding a Bike to Fit my Needs - Throttle Integration

[haneyrm]

I recently lost my ebikes to hurricane Milton. I had a RadRunner, a Ride1Up 700 series and a Biktrix Swift. All flooded, all garbage.

Each of those bikes functioned a bit different and each had things that I did not like especially as it relates to throttle integration.

I really liked the Ride1Up but the integration of the throttle is the worst I’ve experienced. In any PAS setting, the slightest blip of the throttle and the bike is at 100% power. The throttle is only variable in PAS setting 0. Makes no sense and is a safety issue. The throttle should never be an on/off light switch regardless of PAS setting.

In haste, I decided to buy a new Velotric Nomad 1 Plus. The controller on this bike is an antique and nothing other than top speed is adjustable. The throttle on this bike matches the PAS setting so if you’re pedaling along in PAS 2 at 13 MPH and a dog comes flying across his invisible barrier, you cannot blip the throttle and get out of harms way. I know this is a me issue but I want a throttle where it’s available up to 100% regardless of PAS setting. My Rad was like that but was too limited in too many other ways.

I consider the purchase of the Velotric Nomad a mistake and I did not do enough research.

My wife likes to ride around 9 MPH. The Velotric does not have adjustable power settings for each PAS level and the bike will not go 9 MPH in any PAS setting. Only way I can adjust the speed is to reduce the bikes top speed down to 16 MPH. Otherwise it’s speed up, slow down continuously.

Which fat or larger tire bikes are out there where the throttle is available from 0 to 100% regardless of PAS level and has adjustable power settings for each PAS level? I want to have the throttle available (and variable) 100% of the time and would like to match my wife’s leisurely pace without have to set the bike to only go 16 MPH.

I also pedal 100% of the time. Never in moped mode. Should I buy a torque sensor bike? Seems like it might do what I’m asking as long as I can integrate a throttle.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the rambling nonsense here.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Welcome! I have first-hand experience with 2 torque-sensing hub-drive commuters with the kind of throttle I think you're after:
1. My Surface 604 V Rook.
2. Neighbor's Aventon Level.2.

Both have the same thumb throttle implementation:
1. Progressive.
2. Works the same in every non-zero assist level, disabled in level 0.
3. Just adds instant, controllable power, up to full power, to whatever you're doing at the moment.
4. Enabled only to 20 mph.

The only kind of throttle to have in my book. We use ours like you do — as adjuncts to pedaling, especially in traffic.

I have over 30 miles on his. Mine has the better torque-sensing assist implementation — in part, because mine can be set for 0-9 assist levels, while his is stuck at 0-5. Advantage: My assist levels 1/9 and 2/9 are well below his 1/5, and these are the levels I use most. But neither has individually programmable assist levels.

Both bikes are well-made. Mine came with better components, but his is a bit lighter and more responsive. Also better-looking. Thanks to the same aftermarket 2.3" hybrid tires, both have decent offroad capabilities.

Aventon has a fat-tire offering. Surface 604, a Canadian company, might, too. But Aventon has a much larger dealer and service network in the US.

Good luck! As I'm sure you know by now, testing yourself is the only way to ensure that you're getting the throttle and assist you want.

 

[indianajo]

Best of luck. This issue is invisible in all the tests done on ebikes.
I have used 7 different controllers. The first ebikeling had cadence sense, and PAS 1 was dangerous at 13 mph on bad pavement. PAS 2 & 3 were even faster, hideous. I like 8 mph except downhill. I moved the cadence magnet pickup so that PAS never worked. Throttle worked linearly at all pas levels. I ride unpowered 80% of distance unless the wind is >12 mph in my face, which before electricity made my ride home from summer camp last 6 hours at pulse 120-140 bpm.
The second controller was ASI from Lunabikes which had throttle only. Throttle was linear. Controller burned its pins off in the rain. Do not buy ASI controller unless you only ride in the desert in dry season.
5 others were scooter controllers from ebay with no PAS or torque sense input. Scooter controllers have a "door switch" input, so they only power up when the door on the parcel box is closed. Throttles were linear. One delayed onset of full power with full throttle, ramping up power only over 5 seconds. That was dangerous crossing a 6 lane highway at a red light that never turned green for bicycles, or as you say, when a dog chased me.
I do not buy factory built ebikes because the frames do not fit me unless they have jaw rattling 20" tires. No bike shop in this tiny city of 2000000 will stock any bicycle for short people except pink rim brake bikes with a girls doll logo. I have a 28" pants inseam and like 26" wheels.
Good fortune shopping and later riding.

 

[6zfshdb]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your bikes.

I understand and share your frustration with the throttle / PAS and torque / cadence sensor dilemma. I frequently ride with others and have a difficult time matching speeds. It seems every bike has different characteristics in this area, some good and some bad.

I'm a DIY'er and the fix for me was to build a control with a knob that lets you dial in any speed you want. I simply set the speed to match the others I'm riding with and apply the appropriate pedal pressure. In effect, I'm assisting the bike rather than it assisting me.

If you're handy with tools and soldering, you can make your own. Here's a link on how to build one:

Adding a Rotary Dial Speed Control

I occasionally get a cramp in my right hand when using my half grip twist throttle. As a remedy, I built this small control box as an alternate way to adjust speed. In doing some research, I discovered a 3 wire hall effect throttle can be emulated with a variable resistor. I wired the control...

forums.electricbikereview.com

 

[m@Robertson]

Yes, this problem is essentially impossible to solve without a test ride. I would not even trust someone else's experience because for all you know one production batch of a bike vs. the other uses a different controller with different behavior.

My solution to this is to find a controller that does what I want and stick with it. In my case, for hub motors I always use KT brand (spelled out all the way thats Suzhou Kunteng Electronics, but everyone sells them as KT). The KT displays that go with them unlock a slew of features within the controller, among the most useful being 3 levels of slow-start that ramp up power delivery to full amps slowly. They also include a cruise control setting that you can vary with the moment (I always pedal with an occasional blip of throttle so I never use it) and the throttle range is not an on/off switch.

But what I do only works if you are building your own ebike solution and know how to pick all the components yourself.

 

[harryS]

I thought RAD used a variant of the KT controller in the past, but perhaps they changed. Even with the KT models, it's very tough to get a 750W rated cadence sensor bike to go 9 mph, without as the OP say restricting the entire range,. That kind of low speed capability isn't in the design specifications of most chinese controllers.

As for torque sense. I've only ridden the Tong SHeng torque sensing middrives, and while they can go slow, the slow pedalling cyclist will likely be unable to go fast, When I set my wife up with hers, she couldn't keep up at 12 mph. There is third part firmware that enables a cadence mode. That is amazing. Anywhere from 6 to 20 mph, it's effortless, but not over boosted like cadence bike.