Evo 29'er, My New Bike

[J.R.]

@Jack Tyler

My typical 34 mile R/T commute has about 1500 feet of climb total. The rough bit is the hill I live on, depending on the direction I come from it's either an 750 foot, 2.2 mile hill or almost 850 foot 2.8 mile hill.

I rode these same routes with a standard road hybrid bike and the summer of 2013 about did me in. That's when I started to look for a way to cheat! Not cheat my cycling, cheat father time. Ebikes did the trick and I'm never looking back!

PS, I have some additional observations to share about the 29'er and battery performance in the cold. I'll be posting that soon.

 

[Jack Tyler]

@J.R. excellent summary! I'm trying to sort out whether I build or buy because I will shortly be living in Bozeman MT, where hiking & bike trails abound around town BUT, since Bozeman is in a valley, everywhere outside of town goes 'UP'. Thus, my interest in learning what's reasonable to expect from a geared hub drive vs. e.g. installing a eRAD mid-drive. Reading the CrossCurrent thread has been very helpful because it illustrates how Tora chose to bias the motor to suit range over (but not totally excluding) dealing with elevation. And so, I'm seeking out first hand info about bikes like the EM series - certainly very polished in appearance and well equipped, but do they have the moxie I will need. I'll look forward to the battery info re: cold weather. As you would guess, Montana does not enjoy much tropical weather. <g>

 

[George S.]

Jack,

You buy Rancho Deluxe? The 40th anniversary of the movie was last year. Kind of unique.

The Biktrix MonteCapro is a lot of mid-drive hill climbing bike for the price.

George

 

[Jack Tyler]

Good eye, George. But it blows like hell in Livingston, being up in the Bozeman Pass...while Bozeman's 50 miles west and 10 times bigger. But those Crazies are sure gorgeous!

Yes, I agree about the value of the bike and had joined the Biktrix MonteCapro mailing list. They're using a Max motor that you've used on one of your DIY projects, yes? Thoughts?

Jack

 

[George S.]

Jack,

The Max is the motor Bafang is selling for integrated frames. That makes for a completely integrated look. Unfortunately, actual reviews of the Max are hard to find. I assume it will be similar to the BBS02 which is hugely popular. The Max has an integrated torque sensor system. I don't even know if they will make it with a throttle. Quality torque sensor PAS seems to be what people want.

I was watching a video of a guy trying to climb a 26% grade (Seattle) with a Juiced Riders hub motor. He was going 4 mph and the motor sounded really strained. For anything over 10%, the mid-drive makes sense. Most highway grades are engineered to a max of 7-8%.

Someone like Roshan or Tora can build great bikes, probably in their sleep, but you still want to nail down the details. I just built a cruiser bike with a small DD Golden Motor. Looking forward to seeing what it can do. The Bafang in the Cross Current may be a bit less robust than a Mac motor or a Golden. It's easy to fudge the regs a bit with a kit. My Mac will pull 1200 watts with a 48v battery, and that will get up more hills. I have a GM Pie V5 that will do roughly the same at 48v. (Rear motor, not the one in the picture.)

You have a lot of great choices right now. I'd happily buy the Cross Current or the Monte Capro, even the Thin, if I were starting out. I'd end up putting upright bars on these bikes, and that's not really what they are about.

What Tora was saying about the pace of change. It's unbelievable. Lot of little stuff and much bettery battery options.

 

[Jack Tyler]

George:

I'm beginning to grasp the 'ebike scene' here a bit and getting a much better perspective on where these bikes (and their components) come from after viewing some of Tora's videos. My goodness, what a spectrum of low-tech to high-tech over there. My favorite scene: One fellow was working on hub components and drilling what looked like a DD case, with his 'work station' being the floor and his vice being his feet. Jigs, assembly fixtures and 5# sledges seem to be the name of the game out on the factory floor. But the next scene: A clean room where the circuitry was being assembled. I'm really appreciating the fact Tora shot those video segments and shared them.

Jack

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

George:

I'm beginning to grasp the 'ebike scene' here a bit and getting a much better perspective on where these bikes (and their components) come from after viewing some of Tora's videos. My goodness, what a spectrum of low-tech to high-tech over there. My favorite scene: One fellow was working on hub components and drilling what looked like a DD case, with his 'work station' being the floor and his vice being his feet. Jigs, assembly fixtures and 5# sledges seem to be the name of the game out on the factory floor. But the next scene: A clean room where the circuitry was being assembled. I'm really appreciating the fact Tora shot those video segments and shared them.

Jack

Hi Jack,
The drilling machine was being used on a IGH (internally geared hub). DD hubs are larger and heavier. The factory that you saw is LuYuan (I think!) (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Some of their testing rigs and advanced bike prototyping is really interesting.
Juiced as a company really shines in delivering high capacity batteries. Now coming back,

1. What bikes have you test ridden so far?
2. Do you want a cruiser style bike with cadence sensing or a performance oriented bike with a torque sensor?
3. What you think as an "ideal bike" changes once you own a bike for 6 months and understand the nuances.
4. I guess you're my father's age and if you're not tight on cash, get a well-made factory built bike. You deserve a finely engineered machine.
   You don't want your first ebike to be a DIY project. Small spacers, dangling wires, non-compatible sprockets, brakes can be a PIA.
   Once you have a thorough understanding of how the drives work, you can build your own bike according to your needs.

 

[Jack Tyler]

Thanks for the coaching, Ravi. I realize it comes from someone who speaks from experience. And your endorsement for a well-engineered factory built bike, given I'm new to ebikes, is probably sound advice. It is easy to forget bikes are systems rather than disparate pieces bolted together, and that much of the effort from a Tora or Roshan is expended well before the first bike is sold. The most suitable option, so far at least, seems to be a torque sensor mid-drive (Montana has lots of elevation change), that would seem to favor a bike that's engineered from the ground up. One thing's for sure: There sure is a lot to choose from!

Jack

 

[J.R.]

The LCD is easy to read and appears accurate. It's easily removed, the bike came with a screw that can lock the display to the bike. The display angle is also adjustable to account for glare, but I ran into a problem while pedaling up a big hill and attempting to adjust the angle. On the back of the display there are 6 very small electrical contacts and when I went to adjust the angle, the display lost it's connection to the bike and all assist stopped. At the time on the hill I didn't realize what exactly happened, later that day after having time to think about it, it struck me that the bike must have lost communication with the display.

I tested the theory at home of an interrupted connection and that was the case. I also tested the connection with the display screw in and did not lose the connection. I think a better place to push on the display base or a larger base would solve this issue. I also wondered about some of the accounts I've read about intermittent power problems, if they might have been caused by the same. It wasn't apparent to me at the time, I was busy working up the hill, worried about traffic and it was second nature to correct my vision to the display. The bike powered up when I held the power button 3 seconds, still I was concerned at the time.

I posted the above about the small pins on the display and base loosing contact. That's happened a few times since, in the same way, so I've installed the lock-down screw permanently for now and haven't had the issue again. I intend to get a thump screw so I will still be able to remove the display without the use of an Allen wrench.

Thumb screw:

Other than that, the bikes running like a top!

 

[J.R.]

I had my best mileage last evening on a casual 30 mile ride. I previously noted in this thread of how many watt hours I used for 25 miles, so that is the benchmark I keep in mind. My ride yesterday was in 80F degrees +/- and consisted of easy, flat rail trail, with about 800 feet of climb and averaging 13.8 MPH for the entire 25 miles. I used 42% of the 11.6 AH/36V battery.



Sorry for the fuzzy pic, was a little too close. More for documentation than anything else. I did the entire 25 miles in 30% PAS. At this point I was about 5 miles from my destination, which was all up hill. I put the bike into 100% PAS and burned 14% of the battery Not so frugal!

 

[Jack Tyler]

Impressive, @J.R. That seems to be the equivalent of a (relatively flat & windless) 60 mile range, something I wouldn't have expected. I'm guessing your bank may have now seen several hundred charge/discharge cycles? I'm about a week away from being able to test the 27.5 and, if the fit suggests it, the 29'er.

 

[J.R.]

Impressive, @J.R. That seems to be the equivalent of a (relatively flat & windless) 60 mile range, something I wouldn't have expected. I'm guessing your bank may have now seen several hundred charge/discharge cycles? I'm about a week away from being able to test the 27.5 and, if the fit suggests it, the 29'er.

It was warm, flat and windless. Mostly flat except for Summit Grove into MD and Summit grove to Hanover Junction, PA, is a gradual downhill grade. You know what happens when you go downhill.... you gotta go up! Summit Grove is the high point on that rail line. Kids are known to unhook rail cars and they will travel 10-12 miles before stopping in Seven Valleys, PA. Hope you enjoy your rides at Lenny's!

 

[J.R.]

I went on a County Parks Department group ride this evening, a lot of fun and a great group of people!



There were 2 ebikes and about a dozen regular pedal/push bikes. All of the people on the ride know about ebikes because the guy (a friend) that's been leading these weekly rides for years, was the other ebiker. I wouldn't say everyone was enthusiastic about ebikes, but they are accepting of them. Lots of questions from some about how and why I choose to ride them and of course price. That was the surprising bit, some thought ebikes were more expensive than they are. It was a good opportunity to spread some good will about these machines we love so much. I don't think it will take much to get some converts.

Now on to some business. The group did about 17 miles, not bad considering the variety of abilities. I took it a bit farther, I rode to and from the meetup which was a little over 12 miles each way. So the total evening ride for me was 41.4 miles on a single charge, with ~1600 ft. of elevation gains. I did about half the ride on PAS 1 (30%) and half on PAS 2 (50%), my average speed for the entire ride was 13.3 MPH. At the end of the entire ride I had 18% of the battery remaining. The group rode relatively slow on average, My speed riding to and from was significantly higher.

I continue to be very impressed with this bike. At the time of purchase I just hoped I would be able to ride 40 miles on a charge, this bike has really surpassed my hopes. It was a great evening to be riding!

 

[vincent]

that is awesome mileage


i am personally getting a little sick of the regular bike people who are dismissive or ask when will you get a real bike...
and being new to the bike thing all of this really surprised me
amazing that these people dont realize i have probably spent 800 or more just in acccesories for these bikes

plus 400 or more in maintenance, upgrade tires, check ups etc

650 on a one up rack

this is on my 2 cheap bikes

and have a new easy motion being delivered to a bike shop in tucson next week to be put together etc

cannot see how that is hurting the bike industry or why they want to have an attitude


and this is the interesting thing

i drive around to clients houses for my work, EVERYONE ask me about the bike if i have on 1 of the trucks
none of them have ever heard of electric bikes and all think they sound awesome

lining up rides with friends to show them the bikes etc in the next few weeks

most of these people are my age or older and are interested in this, they also have the money to spend to buy these bikes

i tell them about the advantages of electric , how cool i think it is etc
and how i feel fine riding 8-10 miles one way knowing i can get back no matter what

this is a big deal to people and so many are interested and have never heard of them

then i am in the bike shops and so many of them ask why did you buy electric like it is bad thing etc
really who cares why i bought electric and why does it matter, i am spending money in their stores

sorry to go on a rant and off topic on this thread
i need to be only dealing with electric bike people lol

 

[EvoPaul]

I posted the above about the small pins on the display and base loosing contact. That's happened a few times since, in the same way, so I've installed the lock-down screw permanently for now and haven't had the issue again. I intend to get a thump screw so I will still be able to remove the display without the use of an Allen wrench.

Thumb screw:View attachment 5919

Other than that, the bikes running like a top!

Hi, have you bougth the thumb screw yet? I think it is a great idea. If you have a link to the specific screw I will buy it also. My display is like yours...two stubborn connectors that lose connection if I press too hard on the display.

 

[J.R.]

Hi, have you bougth the thumb screw yet? I think it is a great idea. If you have a link to the specific screw I will buy it also. My display is like yours...two stubborn connectors that lose connection if I press too hard on the display.

Hi Paul,

I'm glad you asked, I forgot to update the thread. I did get a thumb screw at a local hardware supply, the knurled end is more round than the pic. The concept worked better than reality. There just isn't enough room between the bar and display to use two fingers on the screw, I couldn't get it tight enough to make a difference. I wound up tightening the bar strap so it wouldn't tilt easily and used the factory screw for the display. I threw a ball end allen wrench in my toolkit for the times I need it, which is only when I leave the bike locked up outside for a significant amount of time.

 

[J.R.]

I've done a few group rides this summer with some really nice people. I get a lot of curious questions about this ebike and ebikes in general. Yesterday was another ride with about 20-25 others in the group, we did ~25 miles. I very much enjoyed the ride and talking about ebikes, the most questions I got were about range. I was happy to report the kind of mileage I've been getting this summer with the 29'er.



Once again there were two ebikes (and 2 dirty, rotten, scoundrels) on the ride The two ebikes were right out in front of course

 

[Jack Tyler]

@JayVee I'm curious as well. However, most of my riding will be within the Gallatin Valley (as in relatively flat) and to the adjacent bases of the national forests (aka: steep trails not suitable for road bikes). FWIW I've ridden the CC five times now, perhaps an average ~5 miles per ride, mostly on Eco and '1', and the not-really-accurate power LEDs still show 4 out of 5 lights. I'll know more when I get a replacement battery charger (mine was DOA) and a cell phone holder so I can start using Ride with GPS.

 

[grench]

@JayVee I'm curious as well. However, most of my riding will be within the Gallatin Valley (as in relatively flat) and to the adjacent bases of the national forests (aka: steep trails not suitable for road bikes). FWIW I've ridden the CC five times now, perhaps an average ~5 miles per ride, mostly on Eco and '1', and the not-really-accurate power LEDs still show 4 out of 5 lights. I'll know more when I get a replacement battery charger (mine was DOA) and a cell phone holder so I can start using Ride with GPS.

Jack try out Map My Ride app. Several of us on EBR team use this app for national bike challenge. If you friend us the group gets notifications when you ride. It is motivational to get these dings from the team members. The app will also sync with NBC and upload your miles for you.

 

[Jack Tyler]

@grench thanks for the suggestion/invitation. I'll check it out. (So much to do, so little time...)