eMTB Options For 2024

[Browneye]

 

[PDoz]

It's really hard to describe how different these light bikes feel.

You lose some of that plush, ground hugging feel but gain so much more confidence. Try carrying 2 litres of water on the occum to get an insight?

I really wanted a rise - they're super sexy in the flesh and hit a nice price / spec compromise for a x country biased emtb. But it's been a LONG wait for the local shop to get theirs, and when my levo sl came up I realised I could buy it and have enough $ left over to keep my giant AND upgrade anything I wasn't happy with! As an added bonus, the levo comes in around 1- 1.5 kg lighter for similar spec levels , so potentially I could sink silly $ and get a bike a couple of kg lighter than an m10 but with similar components - importantly I can choose where I lose that weight ( unsprung +/- carbon cranks) , and then keep those lighter components to transfer to n+3

So far, I'm happy with the stock components on the sl but am taking an opportunity to upgrade the standard fox 34 150's for a new second hand set of fox 36 160's ( removed from new on a full power levo) - my sons bike needs fork work , it's cheaper to put my 34's on his bike and get these better forks for mine than it would be to service / repair his crappy sram recon 130 's !!! If they upset his geometry too much I can do a 3 way swap - the fox e 34's on fugle are 150 mm but I still have the original 140 mm airshaft - pitty it's not compatible with my sl's fox 34's ! ( e spec 34's use 32 mm internals)

 

[TOOSLOW]

360WH ? Is that a joke? 8k euro plus I need a range extender to get what? 600WH's ?
I just love how these manufacturer's lose this so called weight at the expense of a truly useful emtb.

 

[PDoz]

360WH ? Is that a joke? 8k euro plus I need a range extender to get what? 600WH's ?
I just love how these manufacturer's lose this so called weight at the expense of a truly useful emtb.

Ride before you decide.

I'm getting significantly more range out of my levo sl (320wh) than I ever got out of my giant full e pro (500 wh) , and most of the time I'm not noticing any less support or travelling much slower. (across a complete ride my average speed is slightly faster so far) . There's a lot more involved that whatevers - efficiency of pedaling, bike geometry, ability to maintain speed through corners without the constant start / stop , and certainly with the levo sl there's a very different style power delivery - you don't get that immediate yamaha whack , but there's plenty of support during the pedal stroke and my knees are not complaining.

I remember back in 2019 doing a ride with a focus jam - 350ish wh , we did a huge 59 km epic alpine ride and still had 25 % battery left - not a lot less than my giant had. I've rarely emptied the battery in my giant, so why not have the option of a lighter bike 99 % of the time and a range extender when it's necessary?

 

[TOOSLOW]

Listen, I don't need to ride to decide, do the math, 360wh verses 500/625wh = range.
Same bike using the different batteries, your actually telling me the 360wh battery could compare?
Pedal your snake oil elsewhere.

 

[TOOSLOW]

MAN, at $15,999, there so light, they don't publish a weight, imagine my shock!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

MAN, at $15,999, there so light, they don't publish a weight, imagine my shock!

The next comment of yours would be why that e-bike is not equipped with pedals... No offence meant, of course.

I perfectly understand what PDoz has said. I used to be a believer in full-power e-bikes (and carrying a big spare battery) until I rented a Vado SL for a day, and the e-bike had its 320 Wh battery only charged to 7/10 bars. Some hard data:

• 45 km/h Vado 5.0, average trip speed 24 km/h, 102 km ridden, 755 Wh battery consumption (spare battery used).
• The same Vado, average trip speed of 20.4 km/h, 102 km ridden, 528 Wh used (a single battery ride)
• Vado SL, 320 Wh average trip speed 18 km/h, estimated battery range 130 km.

The data above are pertaining to road trips in flat area. Of course, the long range of Vado SL in my own case means I would be travelling slowly (my legs are ill and cannot be repaired as to say). Yet, the cruising/average speed is one thing while the range is another. It is easy to pedal lightweight Vado SL with little assist while that would be impossible with heavy full-power Vado.

Now, we are talking electrically assisted mountain biking. The thing there is to climb using the assistance (not riding long distances on road fast), and the bike weight matters a lot, especially if the rider is a lightweight person him/herself. I simply trust the PDoz experience.

 

[PDoz]

Listen, I don't need to ride to decide, do the math, 360wh verses 500/625wh = range.
Same bike using the different batteries, your actually telling me the 360wh battery could compare?
Pedal your snake oil elsewhere.

How about you READ my response ?

They're different bikes . Different handling and motor dynamics . Different . Which is why different whatevers can achieve different results.

The 2019 focus jam I mentioned was a marketing disaster because the morons in magazines couldn't see past the whatever factor. Great bike, and the range extender was a great idea that we all missed out on whilst marketing hq demanded fat batteries and useless talk outputs. Thankfully specialized have a better marketing department so the levo sl got past the magazines, orbea followed with the rise, and enough people have now ridden these things to realize emtb's are far more sophisticated that numbers

 

[DaveMatthews]

Listen, I don't need to ride to decide, do the math, 360wh verses 500/625wh = range.
Same bike using the different batteries, your actually telling me the 360wh battery could compare?
Pedal your snake oil elsewhere.

Ouch.

 

[Browneye]

I would be sorely tempted to opt for a Rise, but man, that's a LOT of $$. And the local shop that carries them is the one that I had the run-in with on the new/used Trance for the wife, so they've lost a customer for life.
The other local shop isn't that far away though, but I'll bet they don't have one and not getting any. Oh well...lucky me. LOL

Maybe I can get some riding in now...we just got back from nearly three thousand miles of driving, helped our son move halfway across the country. I haven't been out for several weeks now.
Time to plan some time in the mountains on the eMTB'S.


EDIT: Looks like Jenson USA is not an authorized dealer, but another shop nearby is. And I spec'd out a RISE M20 with some updates - Minions, kashima forks, raceface bar setup, and a range extender for a total of about eight thousand, shipping due November 9. Holy smokes.
Well, I'll have to think hard on that one...

 

[linklemming]

The next comment of yours would be why that e-bike is not equipped with pedals... No offence meant, of course.

I perfectly understand what PDoz has said. I used to be a believer in full-power e-bikes (and carrying a big spare battery) until I rented a Vado SL for a day, and the e-bike had its 320 Wh battery only charged to 7/10 bars. Some hard data:

• 45 km/h Vado 5.0, average trip speed 24 km/h, 102 km ridden, 755 Wh battery consumption (spare battery used).
• The same Vado, average trip speed of 20.4 km/h, 102 km ridden, 528 Wh used (a single battery ride)
• Vado SL, 320 Wh average trip speed 18 km/h, estimated battery range 130 km.

The data above are pertaining to road trips in flat area. Of course, the long range of Vado SL in my own case means I would be travelling slowly (my legs are ill and cannot be repaired as to say). Yet, the cruising/average speed is one thing while the range is another. It is easy to pedal lightweight Vado SL with little assist while that would be impossible with heavy full-power Vado.

Now, we are talking electrically assisted mountain biking. The thing there is to climb using the assistance (not riding long distances on road fast), and the bike weight matters a lot, especially if the rider is a lightweight person him/herself. I simply trust the PDoz experience.

Your data is hard to compare since they are at different speeds which dramatically changes the required power. I doubt all the data your showing was done with the exact same weather conditions(i.e. wind) as well.

24kph = 171 watts
20kph = 122 watts
18kph = 102 watts

All data generated from http://bikecalculator.com/

I am not disagreeing with light ebikes like Vado SL (I am considering Levo SL and almost bought a focus Jam 2 in 2018)

Are Vado riding stats considered off topic in a eMTB forum? Perhaps your Giant eMTB stats would be more relevant.

 

[PDoz]

I would be sorely tempted to opt for a Rise, but man, that's a LOT of $$. And the local shop that carries them is the one that I had the run-in with on the new/used Trance for the wife, so they've lost a customer for life.
The other local shop isn't that far away though, but I'll bet they don't have one and not getting any. Oh well...lucky me. LOL

Maybe I can get some riding in now...we just got back from nearly three thousand miles of driving, helped our son move halfway across the country. I haven't been out for several weeks now.
Time to plan some time in the mountains on the eMTB'S.


EDIT: Looks like Jenson USA is not an authorized dealer, but another shop nearby is. And I spec'd out a RISE M20 with some updates - Minions, kashima forks, raceface bar setup, and a range extender for a total of about eight thousand, shipping due November 9. Holy smokes.
Well, I'll have to think hard on that one...

. Rumor is orbea are about to announce an alloy version of the rise , hopefully they will offer it with just an amazing spec version rather than the base bike having over the top components like the m20 has ( fox performance are several hundred $ more than float, for example , and they are a LOT better to ride on )

Keep in mind, the " budget" m20 you are looking at is specced higher than a trance x1 even before you tick the box for extras like factory / kashima and fox dropper posts , plus you are getting a carbon frame .

In the ultralight world, orbea are significantly cheaper than a similar spec sl - lustify an orbea m10 value directly next to a kinevo sl frameset Same price as just the frameset!!!

Now, try building the dream m10 and see what that would cost compared with a kinevo sl ! Bargain!

 

[PDoz]

Julia, it's time for a confession.

I regret buying my carbon sl.

What I really wanted was an alloy comp sl, or idealy an alloy orbea rise. I know I would have been satisfied with one because the spec and geometry are VERY similar to sprogettes genius, which a couple of weeks ago was the best handling bike I'd ridden.

Sadly, I was seduced by a second hand deal and have this sexy carbon SL. But her legs are only as good as the alloy version ( and the genius). I KNOW those forks are good enough for me, but the carbon frame / bars and renthal stem are spectacular so I can almost detect some flex in the forks ( it might be wrong tyre pressure, but lust is speaking here) . I've already bought some fox 36's .... yes, I know they aren't needed, but I wanted them. Better remember to pump up those tyres when I fit the 36'.....

Now those feet.....sure, they're sexy, but I'm already starting to look at cosmetic surgery...trim a few grams off with carbon rims? I already have the xt 11 sp components to drop 300 gms when I wear out the new nx 12 sp Leering from the shelf, taunting me for a quick fling....we're talking about having an affair on your honeymoon....what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You like to complain, don't you PDoz
He buys the cream of the cream and now would like the alu.
Haha!

 

[PDoz]

You like to complain, don't you PDoz
He buys the cream of the cream and now would like the alu.
Haha!

Not complaining, it's self reflection. Think of this as free counselling / preventive care

BTW, for perspective I bought a second hand comp carbon sl (with brand new running gear) - that's their lowest spec and even new it's HALF the price of their top spec sl. Still far better than what I need (or wanted ), but if someone else can learn from my experience and avoid the traps of lust, I'll consider that good karma

 

[PDoz]

ps-The levo sl is a very interesting buying prospect at the moment - with the kenevo sl making it "old tech" overnight , and supply just starting to catch up with demand, it's the first time in ages we have the chance to buy both new discounted high spec bikes as well as second hand bikes still under warranty.

I've also noticed that levo components come up for sale as new second hand fairly regularly - both the sl and standard models . Perhaps this is a phenomena reserved for high budget buyers who have very specific expectations about components? It's a great way to source upper mid level components - eg the the fox 36 x 160 floats from the full power levo are half the price new second hand of after market 36's. Roval 29 alloy wheels from both the levo sl and full power levo are dirt cheap - they're reasonably light and a solid set of wheels (new owners get lifetime warranty , which gives you insight into specialized confidence in these wheels) - you could buy a new second hand complete set for less than what a single wheel would cost new- so a great option for anyone considering doing a mullet conversion of , say , a 2020 trance 3.... upgrade to the fox 36 levo float 160's , buy the 29 wheelset and fit the front but , say, sell the rear to someone with a dodgy hub in their 2021 trance x ??? You'd get much nicer front end dampening , more stability and better rolling , perhaps be able to ditch that stem extender? The old 27.5 front could still slot back in for days when you want quick steering.....

 

[Browneye]

For a ebike, I'm all in for alloy. Unsprung weight is one thing, but overall, when you add in the assist factor, a few pounds is only relevant for the hardcore rider. I just don't ride like that, I'm not as fast, and I don't jump. And if there's some $$ to save, I'm all for that too.

I spent a LOT of money on my M20, but it doesn't have assist and mostly just sits on display in the living room. Sad, really. I feel fortunate to be able to drop the bucks for a high performance toy, but also feel guilty when it just doesn't get put to use.

An alloy Rise would be worth turning over the Trance...perhaps.

 

[PDoz]

For a ebike, I'm all in for alloy. Unsprung weight is one thing, but overall, when you add in the assist factor, a few pounds is only relevant for the hardcore rider. I just don't ride like that, I'm not as fast, and I don't jump. And if there's some $$ to save, I'm all for that too.

I spent a LOT of money on my M20, but it doesn't have assist and mostly just sits on display in the living room. Sad, really. I feel fortunate to be able to drop the bucks for a high performance toy, but also feel guilty when it just doesn't get put to use.

An alloy Rise would be worth turning over the Trance...perhaps.

I was in a similar place, but had started using less and less assist yet still not able to maintain decent rides on a conventional bike. I really wanted something in between, and was hoping that a low assist light bike was going to be enough (I'll know tomorrow after trying some shuttle runs). Something that I could enjoy riding like an conventional bike, but still actually ride - which I don't do with convectional bikes.

The whole carbon thing terrified me - my giant is covered in battle scars, plus I knew the rabbit hole of weight loss would open up a whole new journey...... surely 18 kg was light enough when all I really wanted was to get under 22 kg ? Now I'm sitting on that crazy point of diminishing returns - a 5 kg weight loss has transformed the bike, I wonder what another kg might feel like......

ps- the weight isn't about jumping - it's about popping. It's so much fun to hop off roots/ ruts rather than barging through them, and has opened up a new style of riding that I thought was no longer viable for me. It's not about riding fast - if anything I'm happier plodding along behind the kids but popping from side to side on the trail. Imagine being able to skip down the isle a supermarket......

 

[reed scott]

For a ebike, I'm all in for alloy. Unsprung weight is one thing, but overall, when you add in the assist factor, a few pounds is only relevant for the hardcore rider. I just don't ride like that, I'm not as fast, and I don't jump. And if there's some $$ to save, I'm all for that too.

I spent a LOT of money on my M20, but it doesn't have assist and mostly just sits on display in the living room. Sad, really. I feel fortunate to be able to drop the bucks for a high performance toy, but also feel guilty when it just doesn't get put to use.

An alloy Rise would be worth turning over the Trance...perhaps.

Yeah, unused expensive 'toys' niggles me in the same way. So when ebikes took over my soul I sold 3/4 of my guns and financed this new religion. I couldn't even shoot some of the hight caliber bang sticks any more anyway due to my old man sensitivity to the kick. It was a joyful/anxious evening when I invited a bunch of the boys from the hunting lease in to look at my offerings. They scooped up everything I laid out. As my little babies went out the door I felt the idolatry draining out of me. This was prior to me receiving my first bike. My new gods have welcomed me though.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Yeah, unused expensive 'toys' niggles me in the same way. So when ebikes took over my soul I sold 3/4 of my guns and financed this new religion. I couldn't even shoot some of the hight caliber bang sticks any more anyway due to my old man sensitivity to the kick. It was a joyful/anxious evening when I invited a bunch of the boys from the hunting lease in to look at my offerings. They scooped up everything I laid out. As my little babies went out the door I felt the idolatry draining out of me. This was prior to me receiving my first bike. My new gods have welcomed me though.

Good trade.