eMTB Options For 2024

Stefan Mikes said:
@PDoz, can you name the cylinder at the rear wheel hub to which the cassette is attached? (I don't even know the Polish name for that...)

When Jacek went in Warsaw Giant LBS with the Trance E+ rear wheel with wobbly cassette, he had the following talk with the store people:
Jacek: Hi! Can you fix that?
Sales assistant: Sure! Give us several minutes! (Disappearing with the wheel at the service section). After some time, the sales guy and the mechanic approach my brother:
-- Did you buy that bike from us? -- Indeed! -- When? -- Well, a year and a week ago? -- Oh. So warranty is not valid anymore... -- Didn't you offer a two year warranty on e-bikes?! -- Is your bike an e-bike?! --Yes, it is! -- What model?

And now Jacek proudly points at Giant Trance X E+ on the store display. The sales guy lost his speech for a while :D
-- Well... Do you have the warranty card with you? -- Hmm... I need to check. The house in which the card was stored went on fire... Let me make a phone call.

And yes, all e-bike documentation (by sheer luck) went intact from the fire. The Giant people told Jacek that the "cylinder" fell apart and it was very difficult to get a replacement. The reason given was the rear hub was the most modern Shimano part, and what worse, for 32 spokes, a rarity. Valid warranty allowed Giant LBS to shift the responsibility on Shimano (that are expected to fix the issue). We'll see.
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Do you mean the freehub? It's a well recognised issue and if the lbs isn't aware of it you need a different lbs!!!

Trance E Freehub issues

So i have an issue with my freehub on the Trance E. looks like i maybe in for a wait for warranty repair from giant NZ. I was just speaking on the phone with their service rep, he was very helpful and informative regarding the issue. At the moment he is waiting on a response from Giant Australia...
www.emtbforums.com www.emtbforums.com

I strongly suspect the cause is poor adjustment of the axle bolts during assembly , allowing the pawls to only partially engage. ( they have a ridge down the centre so can feel engaged when they are only half in) . I'm meticulous about this and have twice described this suspicion the my lbs mechanic after the bike has been handed back with slop at the rear.....mine has been faultless with over 6000 hard km, most owners just replace the whole hub. Pre covid, good bike shops were replacing the hub with an alternative and then negotiationg with giant to partially cover the cost. I guess customers are less valuable now
 
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I think the supply issue is because it's the new shimano 12 speed driver?

If your brother wants to stick with the 12 sp he could either use an older shimano 11 sp freehub with the sram nx 12 sp cassette ( heavy but solid) , or he could switch to a complete sram system by installing their xd driver and any sram 12 sp cassette other than the nx

If it was me, I'd be changing to a different system. I'd go for an older shimano system, replacing everything from freehub to derailleur . Depending on the terrain / need for granny gear it'd be a hard choice between the MUCH stronger 10 sp or an 11 sp system. For rocky terrain where the derailleur is at risk, I'd be fitting a short arm 10 sp derailleur, probably zee freeride , and for a casette running slx 11-36. Unfortunately I already have a complete 11 sp set of spares (xt) so would probably just fit that - more expensive and sexy, but not as tough.

A 10 sp system will pay for itself within a year - chains last longer and are much cheaper, cassettes last forever ( I still have the original cassette on my 2009 trance x !! ) , plus you are less likely to catch the derailleur on a rock and have that horrible sloppy shift whilst waiting for a chance to straighten everything.
 
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PDoz said:
I think the supply issue is because it's the new shimano 12 speed driver?

If your brother wants to stick with the 12 sp he could either use an older shimano 11 sp freehub with the sram nx 12 sp cassette ( heavy but solid) , or he could switch to a complete sram system by installing their xd driver and any sram 12 sp cassette other than the nx

If it was me, I'd be changing to a different system. I'd go for an older shimano system, replacing everything from freehub to derailleur . Depending on the terrain / need for granny gear it'd be a hard choice between the MUCH stronger 10 sp or an 11 sp system. For rocky terrain where the derailleur is at risk, I'd be fitting a short arm 10 sp derailleur, probably zee freeride , and for a casette running slx 11-36. Unfortunately I already have a complete 11 sp set of spares (xt) so would probably just fit that - more expensive and sexy, but not as tough.

A 10 sp system will pay for itself within a year - chains last longer and are much cheaper, cassettes last forever ( I still have the original cassette on my 2009 trance x !! ) , plus you are less likely to catch the derailleur on a rock and have that horrible sloppy shift whilst waiting for a chance to straighten everything.
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Perhaps upgrade to a DT swiss 350 hub as well.

I have used shimano freehubs basically forever and just put a dt swiss 350 hybrid hub (overkill for stefans case) on a powerful mid-drive bike. A standard DT swiss 350 hub would be a great upgrade.

All my future mid-drive ebike hubs will be dt swiss with the ratchet design.

Pretty quiet as well
 
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Browneye said:
Rear hubs...they're much quieter with some grease in them too. ;)
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What grease do you use.

I did grease freehubs back in the day and loved the quietness but there seemed to be debates on whether or not it was a good idea (I never had any problems and am not trying to start a debate, just curious what you use)
 
linklemming said:
What grease do you use.

I did grease freehubs back in the day and loved the quietness but there seemed to be debates on whether or not it was a good idea (I never had any problems and am not trying to start a debate, just curious what you use)
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The thinnest you can find. I use inox - it dampens the click without making the pawls sticky.

Be VERY careful to not have giant pawls sticking - there are only 3 , so if 1/2 are sticking thats's a LOT of force going through the remaining pawls!
 
@PDoz: Thank you so much for extensive and enlightening information! Just to make me sure: is the hub replacement the must? Will it mean the wheel rebuild? As far as the thing go, I'd like to see Giant LBS struggling with Shimano Polska :) The bike is under warranty anyway; yet it might mean months to get the repaired wheel, I'm afraid.

To explain the local reality: Bikeman is the best Giant LBS in Warsaw but as our region is not really for mountain bikes, the LBS seems to be not experienced enough. Yet they really care for their customers. So I intend to give them a break -- and Jacek has to ride his archaic Giant MTB meanwhile.

Although I understand what you are saying, I'm not particularly attracted to replacing the whole groupset. Yet. Are the alternative hubs compatible with the Shimano 12s cassette (not talking about SRAM: it is different)?
 
Stefan Mikes said:
@PDoz: Thank you so much for extensive and enlightening information! Just to make me sure: is the hub replacement the must? Will it mean the wheel rebuild? As far as the thing go, I'd like to see Giant LBS struggling with Shimano Polska :) The bike is under warranty anyway; yet it might mean months to get the repaired wheel, I'm afraid.

To explain the local reality: Bikeman is the best Giant LBS in Warsaw but as our region is not really for mountain bikes, the LBS seems to be not experienced enough. Yet they really care for their customers. So I intend to give them a break -- and Jacek has to ride his archaic Giant MTB meanwhile.

Although I understand what you are saying, I'm not particularly attracted to replacing the whole groupset. Yet. Are the alternative hubs compatible with the Shimano 12s cassette (not talking about SRAM: it is different)?
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The shop should be able to advise if the hub needs replacing - this depends on how much damage was done.

An easy solution is to buy a complete rear wheel whilst waiting for giant / shimano to negotiate. Beats being without the bike for months, and you could potentially then have 2 wheels and be able to swap between them depending on what tyres you want. Many aftermarket wheels / hubs come with both shimano hg and sram drivers , but NOT the shimano 12 sp driver.

If he wants to stay 12 sp , the options are:

buy another shimano 12 sp driver and be stuck with shimano 12 sp cassette forever. I wouldn't do this, because you have no option to change to different sp later.

Buy a normal shimano ( hg) driver AND an sram nx 12 sp cassette - this gives the option to change to any 8-11 sp shimano set up in the future, but he'll be stuck buying sram nx cassettes as long as he keeps 12 sp. This would be my choice, because eventually I'd be going either 10 or 11 sp. For perspective, my specialized sl comes with nx 12 sp on a hg driver, I'll be switching to 10 or 11 sp as soon as I wear out my first chain.

Buy an sram xd driver and an sram xd compatible 12 sp cassette ( anything EXCEPT nx) - this would keep the possibility of going to sram different speed setups in future. It wouldn't be my choice, because sram cassettes are more expensive than equivalent shimano,
 
PDoz said:
I think the supply issue is because it's the new shimano 12 speed driver?

If your brother wants to stick with the 12 sp he could either use an older shimano 11 sp freehub with the sram nx 12 sp cassette ( heavy but solid) , or he could switch to a complete sram system by installing their xd driver and any sram 12 sp cassette other than the nx

If it was me, I'd be changing to a different system. I'd go for an older shimano system, replacing everything from freehub to derailleur . Depending on the terrain / need for granny gear it'd be a hard choice between the MUCH stronger 10 sp or an 11 sp system. For rocky terrain where the derailleur is at risk, I'd be fitting a short arm 10 sp derailleur, probably zee freeride , and for a casette running slx 11-36. Unfortunately I already have a complete 11 sp set of spares (xt) so would probably just fit that - more expensive and sexy, but not as tough.

A 10 sp system will pay for itself within a year - chains last longer and are much cheaper, cassettes last forever ( I still have the original cassette on my 2009 trance x !! ) , plus you are less likely to catch the derailleur on a rock and have that horrible sloppy shift whilst waiting for a chance to straighten everything.
Click to expand...
Your post discusses the type of thing that gives me nightmares. It's like rocket science to me because there are so many variables and there is just no way I will ever have that kind of knowledge. This puts me at the mercy of the LBS and the nearest one is 100 miles away and God knows if they could figure it out OR if they will work on my bike I didn't purchase from them. SO ... I am starting a special file in my word processor and your words here will be the first entry. Thank you. I'm also going to 'follow' you here as people like you, with your knowledge, are a godsend. 👍 👍👍

I will now meditate frequently on the idea of purchasing wheel sets in advance. Expensive insurance yes but maybe the smart thing to do. 🤨
 
For hub pawl grease I use Yamaha outboard lube - it has the consistency of maple syrup. I've done extensive maintenance on outboard motors over the years, so I have a variety of grades of lubes from thick to thin. I like lithium grease for a lot of things, but it's a little too think for hub pawls. Chassis grease, waterproof hub grease, etc.

Surely Park Tools has something, I just got some of their anti-sieze compound, another 'grease' I use for a lot of threaded things that get assembled that you don't want to freeze up, like auto wheel lugs.

Since it's never cold here I have less concern with pawls getting hung up by stiff lube.

Pdoz had very specific details on cassette assembly for me when I set up my second wheelset. Once I understood what was going on there I took the other one apart as well. It was the noisy one. Both are really quiet now.



iu
 
Thanks for the info on grease guys. I used lithium back in the day. I used some sort of grease packing tool that I dont have anymore.

I recently had a shimano compatible freehub from a geared hub motor get a bunch of dirt in it and couldnt figure out how to disassemble so I just soaked it in simple green (changed fluid several times), rinsed with hot water, dipped in rubbing alcohol to displace the water then dipped it in a container of 90w manual transmission fluid.

Not sure if that was the best lube but it sounds the same as a new stock shimano freehub.
 
PDoz said:
AND a tame orthopaedic surgeon who rides.

The other day, I was riding with a surgeon, anaesthetist, and ed nurse. Looking around, I decided to invite the cardiologist next time!

I'm still looking for the right psychiatrist, though......
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I'm not a psychiatrist, but I am a psychotherapist. And a recovering whatever and road (and bike) rager who sometimes had some serious impulse control issues.

I work mostly with young adults, and part of what keeps me from doing anything too stupid is that while I don't have kids of my own, I have 15 young adults who I'm looking after. If they ever have to hear that something happened to me, I want it to be: "There was a rock slide / rogue wave / wrong-way driver, there was nothing he could do" and not "He was taking a double black at night / chasing an SUV that cut him off / arrested for street racing."

I actually have three or four kids in my case load right now who had to drop out of their favorite sports because of injuries-- often having to give up sports that got them scholarships. They feel like their lives are over, and I totally understand that. Sports injuries can be very serious. TBI is a big deal-- I can almost recognized it now, depending on the severity, before I've taken a medical history.

But risk itself is not evil. Risk does not have to keep us off the trail or out of the water. Learning to manage risk is a core life skill, IMHO.

My first DVT was the worst, and while it didn't stop me from body boarding, getting stung by a stingray a year or two later did. Took six months to heal because it was just a real bad strike and the circulation in that leg was so bad-- it never really did heal right. My left foot turned a shade of blue... and has stayed that way.

I sawed my board into four pieces and jammed it into the recycle bin, swearing and trembling with rage and frustration.

Yeah. That lasted about eight months. Then I got a better board, fins, and armored booties, and learned how to ride properly-- (and I avoid having my feet in the sand, and shuffle my fins when I have to.)

Maybe that's crazy. My own psychiatrist doesn't seem to think so.

And since I changed my technique, I've never gotten stung again, even when stingrays were everywhere. I've actually seen people get nailed right next to me.
 
Let me go back to the Trance E+ hub matter.
It has turned out the small LBS in my small town had been an experienced Cannondale and Shimano dealer. The co-owner (owners are twins) told me Shimano would eventually honour the warranty and repair the hub but that could take 9-15 weeks nowadays. If the guy were to handle the case himself, he would have bought a similar (not the same) hub and just used the freewheel cylinder for the repair. And he confirmed the situation with spare parts in the market was dramatic.

It looks like that's the time for N+1 :)
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Let me go back to the Trance E+ hub matter.
It has turned out the small LBS in my small town had been an experienced Cannondale and Shimano dealer. The co-owner (owners are twins) told me Shimano would eventually honour the warranty and repair the hub but that could take 9-15 weeks nowadays. If the guy were to handle the case himself, he would have bought a similar (not the same) hub and just used the freewheel cylinder for the repair. And he confirmed the situation with spare parts in the market was dramatic.

It looks like that's the time for N+1 :)
Click to expand...
Best of luck!
 
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