eMTB Options For 2024

[Stefan Mikes]

The only thing I don't like about touch screens is I'm always wearing gloves.

Wahoo ELEMNT Roam 2 You would be surprised how practical this unit is with its big sturdy buttons. The difference to the Garmin is you configure the device from the smartphone, so you need no touch screen for menus.

 

[PDoz]

Thanks guys - will look into the other GPS models. The only thing I don't like about touch screens is I'm always wearing gloves. I pretty much have to stop to use one anyway - can't read with distance glasses, either sun glasses or clear. Stop, take off gloves and glasses, look at GPS. LOL Normally I would use an app on the cell phone, but there is no cell service out there - it ends about halfway there.

I carried a SPOT when I rode adventure bikes...dang I think I got rid of the last one. Maybe I'll get another one.

Seems one of these little units has a satellite two-way for texting, no?? Probly expensive too.

Unfortunately, moving across the country means I have yet to meet some riding buddies. Wife was worried, and I was extra cautious, but sometimes things just are out of control. I was rather shocked at blowing up the gears, and super glad I decided to keep it low key and stay relatively close to the road. I surely didn't want to spend the night in the forest - probly freeze to death. It's down in the teens already out there - the creeks had ice in them. I brought the bigger backpack, brought a first aid kit, fire starter, hand warmers, and a space blanket, etc. Yow.

Oh, and I figured out I need a 'derailleur hanger' - seems my bike has a special one of those. Another $40. And I broke the front chain guide - my pants leg got sucked into the sprocket and snapped right off. Another $55. Learned my lesson the hard way. Wifey said, "Rookie move, you know better than that."

Pulled the derailleur off to verify the hanger, which is bent like a pretzel, and the derailleur is completely shattered. Cable is frayed, so added a new inner cable and end cap crimper to the list. Dear lord... SMH

Most mtb gloves are touch screen compatible now - you just have to vigure out which digit they put the filaments into ( me pearl gloves ise the thumbs....like the kids texting...)

You should be able to load the trailforks regional maps onto your phone ( I have all of Australia on mysd card) - so mo cell service required. Just remember to stop the phone from searching for cell signals, otherwise it'll run flat in no time.

Search advrider for tough phones, there's a thread on the Aus subforum - lots of usefull advice about models with daylight visible screens etc. My problem is I'm procrastinating between getting an hone 14 with the sat text capability vs wanting a decent tough phone and accepting paying the garmin inreach monthly fees....the hone is tax deductable, the garmin fees aren't....

 

[Browneye]

I noticed my iPhone 12 showed SOS on the network indicator up there - I've since found out it remains connected to a satellite and you can make an emergency call with it. So that makes me feel better. At least I know about it now. I worry about a crash, break something, and become immobilized, no way to call for help. I don't really relish the thought of buying another cell phone, a rugged one, and paying for another service. But yeah, I guess I could download area maps and at least have that loaded on my smartphone. I'm just not familiar with how all that works. Maybe I need to get the Trailforks app and study up on it a little more.

Seems SPOT is still the leader in GPS tracking, with three levels of service. The standard 'Gen 4' can send 'ok' messages via satellite and is a tracker - just $100. The service is $144/year, or you can use a flex plan to turn it on and off by the month. They charge you for 6 months upfront in setup fees though, and lots of complaints about not being able to cancel the service. What I don't get is used Gen-3's selling on ebay for nearly as much as a new Gen-4 right from SPOT. SMH. I'm leaning this way, with a Edge 530 or 830. That way I can at least let the wife know I'm okay, and she can follow along on the mapping app on her computer. I used to have a old Garmin 60-series that I used on the big dirtbike - checkout the stats on the screen capture below from the eastern Sierras. Yep, at 12K feet, top speed of 85, and 400 miles on the odo for that trip.

Interesting the Garmin 830 mtb setup is the same price as a 530 mtb package - not understanding that either. There must be some kind of trade-off from one to the other - I assumed the 830 was an up-model?

I was watching the Erzberg Rodeo on YT and started talking about buying another dirtbike and wifey about had a fit. I'm really too old for that noise.
"Whatever makes you happy hon. Just be safe." Sure honey. LOL

EDIT: BTW, here's a pretty good overview of these gps units I found:

Garmin Edge bike computers: buyer’s guide to all the models

We explain them all, from the Garmin Edge 1040 Solar all the way down to the Edge 130 Plus

www.bikeradar.com

 

[Browneye]

Most mtb gloves are touch screen compatible now - you just have to vigure out which digit they put the filaments into ( me pearl gloves ise the thumbs....like the kids texting...)

You should be able to load the trailforks regional maps onto your phone ( I have all of Australia on mysd card) - so mo cell service required. Just remember to stop the phone from searching for cell signals, otherwise it'll run flat in no time.

Search advrider for tough phones, there's a thread on the Aus subforum - lots of usefull advice about models with daylight visible screens etc. My problem is I'm procrastinating between getting an hone 14 with the sat text capability vs wanting a decent tough phone and accepting paying the garmin inreach monthly fees....the hone is tax deductable, the garmin fees aren't....

A 14 is on my shortlist anyway. They have sat-text? Well that kind of cinches that...kills a couple'a birds.

 

[DaveMatthews]

I noticed my iPhone 12 showed SOS on the network indicator up there - I've since found out it remains connected to a satellite and you can make an emergency call with it. So that makes me feel better. At least I know about it now. I worry about a crash, break something, and become immobilized, no way to call for help. I don't really relish the thought of buying another cell phone, a rugged one, and paying for another service. But yeah, I guess I could download area maps and at least have that loaded on my smartphone. I'm just not familiar with how all that works. Maybe I need to get the Trailforks app and study up on it a little more.

Seems SPOT is still the leader in GPS tracking, with three levels of service. The standard 'Gen 4' can send 'ok' messages via satellite and is a tracker - just $100. The service is $144/year, or you can use a flex plan to turn it on and off by the month. They charge you for 6 months upfront in setup fees though, and lots of complaints about not being able to cancel the service. What I don't get is used Gen-3's selling on ebay for nearly as much as a new Gen-4 right from SPOT. SMH. I'm leaning this way, with a Edge 530 or 830. That way I can at least let the wife know I'm okay, and she can follow along on the mapping app on her computer. I used to have a old Garmin 60-series that I used on the big dirtbike - checkout the stats on the screen capture below from the eastern Sierras. Yep, at 12K feet, top speed of 85, and 400 miles on the odo for that trip.

Interesting the Garmin 830 mtb setup is the same price as a 530 mtb package - not understanding that either. There must be some kind of trade-off from one to the other - I assumed the 830 was an up-model?

I was watching the Erzberg Rodeo on YT and started talking about buying another dirtbike and wifey about had a fit. I'm really too old for that noise.
"Whatever makes you happy hon. Just be safe." Sure honey. LOL

EDIT: BTW, here's a pretty good overview of these gps units I found:

Garmin Edge bike computers: buyer’s guide to all the models

We explain them all, from the Garmin Edge 1040 Solar all the way down to the Edge 130 Plus

www.bikeradar.com

You can get Trailforks maps on the Garmin...

https://www.trailforks.com/garmin/

And yes, the 830 is just a 530 with touchscreen and fewer physical buttons. Same size.

 

[PDoz]

I noticed my iPhone 12 showed SOS on the network indicator up there - I've since found out it remains connected to a satellite and you can make an emergency call with it. So that makes me feel better. At least I know about it now. I worry about a crash, break something, and become immobilized, no way to call for help. I don't really relish the thought of buying another cell phone, a rugged one, and paying for another service. But yeah, I guess I could download area maps and at least have that loaded on my smartphone. I'm just not familiar with how all that works. Maybe I need to get the Trailforks app and study up on it a little more.

Seems SPOT is still the leader in GPS tracking, with three levels of service. The standard 'Gen 4' can send 'ok' messages via satellite and is a tracker - just $100. The service is $144/year, or you can use a flex plan to turn it on and off by the month. They charge you for 6 months upfront in setup fees though, and lots of complaints about not being able to cancel the service. What I don't get is used Gen-3's selling on ebay for nearly as much as a new Gen-4 right from SPOT. SMH. I'm leaning this way, with a Edge 530 or 830. That way I can at least let the wife know I'm okay, and she can follow along on the mapping app on her computer. I used to have a old Garmin 60-series that I used on the big dirtbike - checkout the stats on the screen capture below from the eastern Sierras. Yep, at 12K feet, top speed of 85, and 400 miles on the odo for that trip.

Interesting the Garmin 830 mtb setup is the same price as a 530 mtb package - not understanding that either. There must be some kind of trade-off from one to the other - I assumed the 830 was an up-model?

I was watching the Erzberg Rodeo on YT and started talking about buying another dirtbike and wifey about had a fit. I'm really too old for that noise.
"Whatever makes you happy hon. Just be safe." Sure honey. LOL

EDIT: BTW, here's a pretty good overview of these gps units I found:

Garmin Edge bike computers: buyer’s guide to all the models

We explain them all, from the Garmin Edge 1040 Solar all the way down to the Edge 130 Plus

www.bikeradar.com

The sos on your iphone 12 only indicates you have another mobile carriers signal and you can make calls to emergency services. The iphone 12 DOES NOT have sat capability . Ie when you are truly out of mobile reception, it can't send messages.

Sat sms first became available with the iphone 14 , it's a promising start but unfortunately it's only a low orbit fixed satelite service ( not iridium) . You'd probably want to do some research re how good there reception is in the areas you travel before relying on that, and perhaps have a trial run with one ?

At the moment, I still carry my plb and occasionally reactivate my garmin subscription. Like spot, it's challenging to cancel the garmin subscription - you can turn it off, but they still charge annual fees even when it"s inactive. I have a suspicion my garmin was faulty, it'd miss the occasional ping and then all the following pings would stack up / not transmit - I've never come across anyone else who experienced this, and know a few people who swear by them. In theory, the inreach really should be perfect for me - remote area tracking plus the ability to send sat sms AND have an emergency beacon.

So I still procrastinate - settle on an iphone 14 with the plb as back up, vs give garmin another chance. Or just return to using my old iridium sat phone.....it's huge but has never let me down.

 

[Browneye]

The sos on your iphone 12 only indicates you have another mobile carriers signal and you can make calls to emergency services. The iphone 12 DOES NOT have sat capability . Ie when you are truly out of mobile reception, it can't send messages.

Sat sms first became available with the iphone 14 , it's a promising start but unfortunately it's only a low orbit fixed satelite service ( not iridium) . You'd probably want to do some research re how good there reception is in the areas you travel before relying on that, and perhaps have a trial run with one ?

At the moment, I still carry my plb and occasionally reactivate my garmin subscription. Like spot, it's challenging to cancel the garmin subscription - you can turn it off, but they still charge annual fees even when it"s inactive. I have a suspicion my garmin was faulty, it'd miss the occasional ping and then all the following pings would stack up / not transmit - I've never come across anyone else who experienced this, and know a few people who swear by them. In theory, the inreach really should be perfect for me - remote area tracking plus the ability to send sat sms AND have an emergency beacon.

So I still procrastinate - settle on an iphone 14 with the plb as back up, vs give garmin another chance. Or just return to using my old iridium sat phone.....it's huge but has never let me down.

Valuable info for sure - all news to me.
One of the guys in the group rides we did in Death Valley and Grand Canyon carried a regular sat-phone - you call them 'iridium'? Expensive to buy and calls are $$$$, but the only real way to communicate from the depths of the hinterlands. Many of the guys carried a spot, and there would usually be a metro-based watcher person that would track the spots so were alerted if they didn't move for a long time. All worked out pretty well, there were a few rescues over the years.

At this point I'm thinking SPOT Gen4 with a subscription and a Edge 830. A chunk of change, but might keep me from getting lost and not found.

Chris,

Welcome back up to the PNW! A good GPS is definitely necessary back in that area. The NFS roads are a maze back in there not to mention the unmarked trails. Anything off of 410 on the east side of Chinook Pass is less crowded feeling even at the peak of summer.

So you've spent some time in the Little Naches watershed? Yeah, seems like offroad heaven out there. Makes me want to get another dirtbike - it gets in your blood. I rode for over fifty years, quit for a long time during my twenties and thirties, then a few years in my forties, and finally gave it up altogether a couple of years ago just over sixty. I only broke my left pinky finger - jammed it on the lever when the front rotor stuck in a log downfall end where they cut them for the trail. Out of the over hundred guys I rode with over the years not one I'm aware of didn't break something. A few of them were left crippled, more than one dead.

You're in western WA? My whole family is over there - got a kid in Kent, one in Mill Creek, and one in Snohomish. Wife's sister and mom are in Marysville, my sister in Everett. We're going over for the holiday, visit with everybody. We got a break in the weather on Snoqualmie Pass - wife is thrilled.

Do you ever come over here to ride? You ride mountain bikes?

 

[Browneye]

Why not a Garmin GPS Map 66 or 67i - it has messaging built in as well. Too bulky?

 

[PDoz]

By iridium sat, yes I'm talking about the big brick sat phones that use the iridium satellites - like my trusty old motorolla 9505a . I bought it in 2007 and it's been on some amazing adventures over the years, cost a lot less than a modern " smart" phone, and so far has saved several lives. I retired it when I bought the garmin inreach, although I'd bring it out of retirement if ai did another dessert crossing. There used to be sat sleeves that gave iphones iridium connectivity, but I'm too cheap to spend big bucks on one then kill the iphone that fits it....

I suspect you're on the right path with a spot for communication and garmin for navigation.

From what I can tell, that gps map 66 / 67 i is not compatible with all the trailforks software / maps. I'm not sure if this is because garmin kept the inreach models running the mapping software from when they bought out the delorme inreach , or if it's just typical garmin head up arse syndrome. I just hate the way garmin only support their latest models - eg the trailforks maps are not compatible with older garmins , or even the latest inreach capable garmins with screens like the montana 700 series !! ( I was briefly tempted to buy one after Daves post)

 

[PDoz]

Chris, see if you can find out the location of the low orbit sats near you - ghey are geostationary, so you should be able to get an insight into the chances of an iphone 14 having sat sms capability where you ride.

As an example, in my south east corner of Australia there is only 1 - so manyof the tracks I ride have mountains in the way . With the iridium , it's just a matter of waiting until the next sat passes by.

 

[Browneye]

Globalstar is the satellite network the iphone uses, which I think is the same as SPOT. Seems the cellular networks are trying to negotiate coverage from Starlink but that hasn't happened yet, perhaps T-Mobile is closest to that.

In any case, coverage is good for the entire continental US, so that might be an option. Seems a iphone isn't the most robust device for adventure travel, but I would likely carry my cell phone regardless, even if stuff it in a backpack for emergencies or for when there is cell coverage.

I think I read that the InReach uses the iridium satellite network is is there for more world-wide coverage.

Globalstar coverage here. Looks like it's good for Aus but not NZ. About half of Mexico, nothing in Alaska or Africa.
Lots of legalize about actual coverage.

 

[PDoz]

With global star in mountains, it's important to onow where the sat is - similar to when looking for normal mobile coverage and trying to work out where you will get reception. Ie the telecommunications maps are meaningless

 

[Browneye]

I get it...like a crap shoot.

SPOT is on Globalstar, and Apple. Garmin is on the iridium satellite network. Both cost a lot to have an account for sending and receiving data. A sat-phone is a minimum of about $600 a year.

For $100 I think a SPOT tracker is a good deal. The annual subscription for basic coverage (a dozen messages or so) is about $150 a year. I spend more than that for youtube premium.

I get it on the mapping GPS units too. I did not know Garmin bought delorme. I have used those mapping books for dozens of years - just bought one for the state of WA.

The local trail map here at the ranger station is put out by the county Sheriff's department...go figure. I guess they're the ones that have to go rescue the ill-prepared and lost souls. LOL

Apple is investing in Globalstar:

Apple will spend $450 million with Globalstar and others to enable emergency satellite texting

Apple isn't taking an equity stake in the company but it is committing to spend money for equipment and the service's operations.

www.cnbc.com

News reports say Globalstar was bankrupt in 2003.

 

[BlackHand]

So you've spent some time in the Little Naches watershed? Yeah, seems like offroad heaven out there.

A bit, but we mostly have been down near the Bumping and American Rivers instead of the Little Naches. Family camping trip once per summer with 2 families so not much riding besides sneaking away for a quick morning or evening ride.

This year I got to check out a little bit of American Ridge on my old Rockhopper.


But I'm more of a road or easy trail guy, don't have the skills or bike to do serious mtb. Besides, plenty to explore on the forest service roads.

Went up Miner's Ridge on my only real ride in that area this year. Below Bumping Lake roughly 25 miles due south of the area you were in.

You're in western WA?

Yep, just outside of Edmonds. Most of my riding is just to work and back in Seattle. Other rides as time allows, but spend a lot of time shuttling kids to and from practices/rehearsals/tournaments right now.

 

[PDoz]

I get it...like a crap shoot.



The local trail map here at the ranger station is put out by the county Sheriff's department...go figure. I guess they're the ones that have to go rescue the ill-prepared and lost souls. LOL

About 25 years ago, the ONLY reliable maps of the mountains around here were the Country Fire Authority maps - books with contours and 4x4 tracks etc. Too big to be usefull for day trips, but great for route planning. Then magellan put those maps onto their explorist xl gps unity - it was awesome, I could gollow my nose a d then use the gps to work out just how lost I was. None of this fancy route planning ability, but just enough detail to know there should be a track nearby.

Sometimes I miss that need to figure out a way home

 

[Browneye]

I ended up getting a ZOLEO sat communicator - they dropped the price to $150 for a holiday promo so it was kind of a no-brainer. I studied up on all the options and was leaning towards the SPOT Gen4 as it had at least the option to send a couple of pre-set messages, but no two-way. For $50 more it made sense to get a two-way communicator. And since will always carry my smartphone the Zoleo was a good option - and it's on the iridium satellite network. Gets very high marks and reviews. I'm really excited about it, but probly won't setup the subscription 'till next year - the snow starts in a week and likely won't be able to get out to the forest till it warms up next year. Winter hits hard here. I even bought a snow-blower.

The Garmin InReach Messenger was on my short list, and they dropped the price on that one to $250, so still substantially more $$. I just didn't think I needed the additional features on the Mini and Mini2.

I also signed up for the OUTDOORS+ service that includes the GAIA mapping and TrailforksPro - downloaded the mapping for my region, and tested it yesterday up on the mountain in airplane mode on my iPhone 12. Just awesome.
So unless I need nav on the bars I think I'm set. Can't wait for spring!

Oh, and got all my parts in and rebuilt the drivetrain on the TranceE. Got a lesson or two on how it all goes together and how to make it work. I feel like a pro now!
Got a new MRP chain guide, a XT long derailleur, a KMC e-bike chain, a new shift cable, and a PILO drop hanger. And it all works! Linking the chain and setting up the shifter cable and derailleur was surely a trick.

Tuned the wheels to run straight, setup the shifting, and moved my cassette over from my extra wheel set. The Trance comes with SLX/XT gear, 11 speed, 11-46. I just never use the 46 so I put the 11-42 on from the other wheel. The chain was jumping on the 11t cog, seems it's knackered. The other cassette works fine.

I ordered a new one, thinking I had a M8000, the XT/XTR cassette, only to find out I had a SLX - M7000. Seems the 8000 is an ounce or two lighter, has an alloy locking ring and spiders for the mid-gears. All of which I don't need for a ebike. An ounce or two makes zero difference on a 55lb bike with an old-man rider. LOL Anyway, there's quite a difference in cost, the M8000 was $90 at JensonUSA, then I found the M7000 from Aliexpress for $50 shipped. I dunno, I was going to send the fancy one back, but maybe I'll just keep them both.

Bike is running perfectly again. And I've been looking at new ones. I think I would still stick with Giant, I really like the SyncDrive Pro and Fox suspension. All the new bikes are CF 29'rs with 12 gears though. <shrug>
Mine has about a thousand KM is all. I guess it's a keeper.

 

[PDoz]

I ordered a new one, thinking I had a M8000, the XT/XTR cassette, only to find out I had a SLX - M7000. Seems the 8000 is an ounce or two lighter, has an alloy locking ring and spiders for the mid-gears. All of which I don't need for a ebike. An ounce or two makes zero difference on a 55lb bike with an old-man rider. LOL Anyway, there's quite a difference in cost, the M8000 was $90 at Jensen, then I found the M7000 from Aliexpress for $50 shipped. I dunno, I was going to send the fancy one back, but maybe I'll just keep them both.

The XT cassette is also easier to install, and less likely to chew out your freehub. But realistically, you'll be unlikely get get more than 3 cassettes out of the giant freehub.

It's possibly placebo, but I think the xt has a crisper action ? Or perhaps I'm just super critical after switching back from our fleet of sram equipped 12 speeds to that sloppy old 11 sp shimano?

I took my giant for a ride last week , admittedly it's been a year (3000 kid km ) since I even thought about taking a spanner to it,....I'd forgotten how much grunt it had, but also how detatched the riding experience was !

 

[Browneye]

I have two SRAM 12’s, don’t really notice a difference in shifting. I’ll try paying closer attention.

Put some better tires on the OCCAM for some of the ‘no ebike’ trails around here.

JensonUSA has some oem take-off Maxxis tires at bargain basement prices. Check ‘em out.

EDIT - performance bike (Amain) had the feedback sports sport-mechanic model repair stand for $139! Ordered one.
Highly rated.

 

[Rome]

Here are two bikes I would like to have for Christmas.

 

[Browneye]

Canyon is down there in so-Cal near YT Industries.
Another direct to end user company.