Elephant in the Room, Top Speed of eBikes

[biknut]

It's hard for all of us to wrap our minds around what the future will bring, instead of what used to be. What's a 50 mph eBike if hitting a button makes it an instant 20 mph eBike?

What happens when 2 bikes are sitting on the showroom floor, both identical in appearance, and weight, but because of electronics, and technology, one can go 100 mph and the other only 20.

My mind can imagine a day for eBikes when like boats they have a green light on the port side, and a red light on the starboard side (hope I didn't get that backwards)? What if in the future eBikes are required to have to have a green light that indicates they're in bicycle mode, and a red light that indicates they're in motorcycle mode for the purposes of deciding where it's legal for them to ride. Bike trail of street. But I'm willing to bet that even after that it's still going to be a problem figuring out how to stop them from texting while their riding lol.

 

[Shea N Encinitas]

This one has a 3500w Crystalyte front hub motor, with 40ah of 72v battery's in the saddle bags.

3.5 Kw on the front fork! Dumb. The twisting torque alone will soon stress those welds loose. Would be fun on the back wheel though. -S

 

[Brian(J)]

Good Morning.

If ebikes become so fast that riders are in traffic lanes I assure you the government would step in and make you license the bike, license you and make you pay insurance. I agree with what you stated and believe their is no legal reason to keep the low speeds in ebikes. If the bikes are sold with a safety to go no faster than 20 mph and the owner disables the safety it is not the companies liability.

Why not buy an electric motorcycle? These bikes can keep up with the traffic.

Personally I don't ride in traffic. If there is not a bike lane or enough room for a bike I take the long way around as I agree with you it is very dangerous in traffic. People are jerks when it comes to bikes and traffic.

I believe riders are at risk even in a bike lane. It appears to me there are a lot of driver that don't care and a lot that do. I have had drivers slow down and let me ride with them "blocking" keeping me safe.

I commute on a Dash and I hope 35+mph ebikes never take hold. I started commuting because I got tired of my 7 mile drive home taking over an hour on a bad day, 40 minutes most days; by bike it's about 20 minutes and there are very few bad days. I commute like most other bikers, I slow down but don't stop at most stop lights/signs, I ride between two lanes of stopped or slowly moving cars, I carefully ride on the sidewalk when necessary, bike paths from time to time (usually they are too slow for me) and I ride in traffic when there is no better/safer option.
When/if 35/45mph bikes become common they will not be allowed on sidewalks, or to run stop lights and signs, or split lanes, or share bike paths. Then I will be back to my long commute. If my Dash went 40mph it would only cut a few minutes off my commute time because I am already going about as fast as it's possible to go in the conditions I ride in. A motorcycle would be about as slow as a car for most urban commuters, the advantage of the current state of ebikes is that they are perceived as bicycles and not as motorbikes. When that changes because of much faster (and therefore heavier) ebikes it's game over, I expect.
I'm happy with what I have.

 

[Gus]

I think this depends on where you ride.

Answer 1: If you ride on the trails:
If you ride on the bike trails with walkers, dogs, other non-eBikes, etc. absolutely, positively, without a doubt you have no business being out there going 20+mph on an eBike. That is just too f'n dangerous for everyone else. Dogs are erratic. Kids don't know any better. That hot Mom out pushing her stroller has headphones on, so she isn't going to hear you screaming "on your left." Point is, you don't know what other people are going to do and the faster you go and the heavier you are, the harder it is to react to those situations. I am not going to buy any argument that says faster is better on the trails with other people. I think it was Newton's 5th law that states: the faster an object travels on an eBike, the more likely that eBike is going to injure someone. Especially if that object could loose a few pounds.

In summary, fast eBikes on the trails with average sized riders is bad. Moderately fast non-eBikes with heavyset riders is bad.

Answer 2: If you only ride on streets with cars:
I don't see any problems with a 28+mph bike and agree that is faster is safer in some situations. I'm not going to consider anything related to the legal stuff. That is up to the states to decide and the citizens to follow. Like everything else in life, you can choose to follow the law or not.

BUT....

• Do you think you'll be able to stop in time or swerve if a truck pulls out in front of you doing 35 mph?
• Do you think you'll keep all of your body parts in tact and 100% brain function after hitting the ground at those speeds?

If the answer is yes for all of the above, then go for it! You are less likely to hurt anyone but yourself so do what makes you happy.

 

[Vern]

I commute on a Dash and I hope 35+mph ebikes never take hold. I started commuting because I got tired of my 7 mile drive home taking over an hour on a bad day, 40 minutes most days; by bike it's about 20 minutes and there are very few bad days. I commute like most other bikers, I slow down but don't stop at most stop lights/signs, I ride between two lanes of stopped or slowly moving cars, I carefully ride on the sidewalk when necessary, bike paths from time to time (usually they are too slow for me) and I ride in traffic when there is no better/safer option.
When/if 35/45mph bikes become common they will not be allowed on sidewalks, or to run stop lights and signs, or split lanes, or share bike paths. Then I will be back to my long commute. If my Dash went 40mph it would only cut a few minutes off my commute time because I am already going about as fast as it's possible to go in the conditions I ride in. A motorcycle would be about as slow as a car for most urban commuters, the advantage of the current state of ebikes is that they are perceived as bicycles and not as motorbikes. When that changes because of much faster (and therefore heavier) ebikes it's game over, I expect.
I'm happy with what I have.

VERY GOOD POINTS!! A 35 mph+ ebike would cause a danger to other bikers/walkers on trails and bike paths. I think the cut off should be around 30. This is exactly where the Dash and some other speed pedelecs cut off. However, the faster the bike, the more the need for better brakes and bigger tires/suspension. I love the brakes on my NEO, but wish it had bigger tires and a bit faster speed. I test rode a Dash and the brakes were the deal breaker!

 

[PowerMe]

On multi-use paths it's unsafe to go faster than 8 mph when there are people on the trail. People simply do not know they have to share the path, often walking or jogging 3 abreast. Kids, dogs, people with iPods, etc. It's just a big hazard and I spend a big part of my time shouting "passing on your left" and trying not to ride off into the ditch on the side because of clueless/rude people on trails.

 

[JoePah]

I would contend that a bike such as this, even with all it's faults, is safer in traffic than your 20 mph eBike.

A purpose built Stromer retailing for $4000 is less relaible than a $200 Schwinn? That's hard to believe.

 

[opimax]

Power, as with all traffic ,conditions demand different actions. A regular bike can go faster than8 mph and they are on the same trails. At 9 pm on the 44 mile trail it is normal to 2 people in 20 miles. Are you saying since some don't follow rules the trails shouldn't be mixed use? I should be punished for other people not following the law? I go under 15 , the posted limit admitly around trail traffic but you are saying I should not use the trail?

Gus, my Subie Baja can probably still do 90. I have never tried but I still drive 20 on my street. It is called responsibility. I have insurance and a license too. Trail use to me is similar to car and trucks on a highway. If a tractor trailer finds a Honda fit at excessive speeds... similar ( use you imagination)

Also, when you have a traffic jam ...everyone slows down , maybe the 1 crazy motorcyclist breaking multiple laws and disregarding safety doesn't but again similar to many people walking in a group , also giving motorcyclist a bad rep. Do you not let motorcycles on the road any more?

 

[J.R.]

"Elephant in the Room, Top Speed of eBikes" Implies speed of ebikes is always an underlying issue and in the short time I've owned an ebike that has not been the case. It hasn't been true of the people that ask of my ebike, everyone wants to know how much it costs and how far it will go on a single charge. Admittedly a few will get around to asking about speed. It has not been an ever present underlying theme in this forum either.

Sooo, on to what's important; what's Santa bringing you for Christmas that's ebike related?

 

[opimax]

I get both when speaking to someone on feet and more how fast when taking to someone on a bike. I must admit I don't initiate many conversations since technically I am illegally on any trail so my survey may not represent properly.

I find it humorous the way I act like I can't hear anything w/headphones on just so I don't get into "You aren't allowed on the trail" conversations. And they only say that when they see the motor , not because of the way I ride or anything bad, just because I guess

 

[PowerMe]

Sorry, I was talking about multi-use paths in my area only (not referencing anyone else or their multi-use paths). It's based on my personal experience of encountering walkers/joggers, kids, moms/dads with babies in strollers, etc, etc. and on the weekend, which is when the paths are more crowded. It's not been possible to go much faster simply because the paths can be heavily traveled. However, on a day when there are not many people out and about then going 20mph or so would be quite pleasurable.

 

[biknut]

A purpose built Stromer retailing for $4000 is less relaible than a $200 Schwinn? That's hard to believe.

Joe I'm sure your Stromer is very reliable. No one mentioned anything about reliability. We're talking about safety my friend. And lets keep in mind, all bicycles are to some degree unsafe, because if we don't control them at all times, they fall over. That's one of the reasons we love them lol. Bike riding is a risky endeavor.

One of my favorite quotes by Mark Twain is, “Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live.”

Any bike, that only goes 20 mph, is unsafe in traffic to a degree. Everywhere I've lived it's been common for the police to allow a 10 mph grace above the posted speed limit, before pulling people over. On a 35 mph street that means cars can be closing on you at a pretty high rate of speed. The danger is coming from the rear not the front.

That's why I said that Schwinn is safer in traffic than your bike. That bike is fast enough to run at, or close to traffic speed, although in your case there's not as much difference in safety as a lot of other eBikes, because yours in one of the faster factory bikes.

But since you brought up reliability consider this. Not thinking about any particular models, all other things being the same, which bike would be more reliable in the long run. A bike that tops out at 30 in traffic, or one capable of 40, that's only going 30?

 

[opimax]

I like your last sentence especially!

Time to get ready to ride....almost 60 Degrees here in DC, anyone else?

 

[Brambor]

yeah. We rode the beach yesterday. Today is kind of a more work/less fun day

I did pitch a hammock in the backyard...the rest of the time was work.

 

[biknut]

I think this depends on where you ride.

Answer 1: If you ride on the trails:
I am not going to buy any argument that says faster is better on the trails with other people. I think it was Newton's 5th law that states: the faster an object travels on an eBike, the more likely that eBike is going to injure someone. Especially if that object could loose a few pounds.

In summary, fast eBikes on the trails with average sized riders is bad. Moderately fast non-eBikes with heavyset riders is bad.

Answer 2: If you only ride on streets with cars:
I don't see any problems with a 28+mph bike and agree that is faster is safer in some situations. I'm not going to consider anything related to the legal stuff. That is up to the states to decide and the citizens to follow. Like everything else in life, you can choose to follow the law or not.

BUT....

• Do you think you'll be able to stop in time or swerve if a truck pulls out in front of you doing 35 mph?
• Do you think you'll keep all of your body parts in tact and 100% brain function after hitting the ground at those speeds?

If the answer is yes for all of the above, then go for it! You are less likely to hurt anyone but yourself so do what makes you happy.

Hold the bus Gus LOL ! You're confusing two issues. Are you meaning all fast eBikes should be banned from trails, or do mean any eBike ridden in a fast manner ? If you think an eBike that can go fast enough to be dangerous on a crowded trail shouldn't be allowed on a trail then you better stay off the trails, because I got bad news for you. That's all of them.

I think everyone agrees it would be unsafe to ride fast on a crowded trail. Every eBike made, is fast enough to be dangerous riding at top speed on a crowded trail. But whether my eBike is faster than yours or not, I can ride it just as slowly as you can.


In regards to the second point about riding on the streets.

On a slow bike, the greater danger comes from the rear, not the front. If you hit anything in front of you, that's because of rider error. With experience comes the skill to spot danger ahead, and not ride faster than your ability to stop.

Getting run over from behind, by a distracted driver is an entirely different story. It might not be your fault, but what good is that if you're dead? That kind of danger can be greatly lessened by riding closer to traffic speed.

This is one of the many reasons why an eBike is superior to a bicycle. There's just no good reason for us to have such a dangerous limitation.

 

[Rusty]

Amen to that! The very attraction of an ebike is that it can expand the capabilities of what a bike can do. We already have federal law governing output and speed. Let's be grateful that we have ebikes available to us that can outperform regular bikes and leave it at that.

I almost expect to hear next that we need to limit the speed of those nasty joggers too, just because they run too fast or run into others or knocked me down or got killed going running through traffic....

 

[Gus]

Your question, as I understood it, was what should be the allowable top speed of eBike. How high should we go?

No, eBikes should not be banned from the trails.

Yes, eBikes that are capable of going over a speed of X mph should be (and I think are) banned from the trails.

If its capable of doing 35 mph, somebody will be out there doing 35 mph on it. Maybe not you, maybe not Optimax, but if its capable people will be out there going that fast. You are assuming that everyone that buys a Ferrari drives like Grandma on Sunday.

There has to be a limit. Otherwise, why don't we allow motorcycles on the trails to? In my opinion, an eBike is still a bicycle. If an ebike wants to go on the same trails that were designed/intended for non-ebikes it should not go any faster than a 'normal' person can pedal. If it grossly exceeds this speed range, its a motorcycle. In that case, get a license that requires some type of validation that you know what you are doing, understand the rules of the road, and stay on the roads where these rules apply.

 

[biknut]

Your question, as I understood it, was what should be the allowable top speed of eBike. How high should we go?

No, eBikes should not be banned from the trails.

Yes, eBikes that are capable of going over a speed of X mph should be (and I think are) banned from the trails.

If its capable of doing 35 mph, somebody will be out there doing 35 mph on it. Maybe not you, maybe not Optimax, but if its capable people will be out there going that fast. You are assuming that everyone that buys a Ferrari drives like Grandma on Sunday.

There has to be a limit. Otherwise, why don't we allow motorcycles on the trails to? In my opinion, an eBike is still a bicycle. If an ebike wants to go on the same trails that were designed/intended for non-ebikes it should not go any faster than a 'normal' person can pedal. If it grossly exceeds this speed range, its a motorcycle. In that case, get a license that requires some type of validation that you know what you are doing, understand the rules of the road, and stay on the roads where these rules apply.

 

[biknut]

Your question, as I understood it, was what should be the allowable top speed of eBike. How high should we go?

No, eBikes should not be banned from the trails.

Yes, eBikes that are capable of going over a speed of X mph should be (and I think are) banned from the trails.

If its capable of doing 35 mph, somebody will be out there doing 35 mph on it. Maybe not you, maybe not Optimax, but if its capable people will be out there going that fast. You are assuming that everyone that buys a Ferrari drives like Grandma on Sunday.

There has to be a limit. Otherwise, why don't we allow motorcycles on the trails to? In my opinion, an eBike is still a bicycle. If an ebike wants to go on the same trails that were designed/intended for non-ebikes it should not go any faster than a 'normal' person can pedal. If it grossly exceeds this speed range, its a motorcycle. In that case, get a license that requires some type of validation that you know what you are doing, understand the rules of the road, and stay on the roads where these rules apply.

Gus I think I totally understand your concerns about a speedy eBike on trail. I probably have the exact same concerns as you. Only my conclusion about what to do about it is different.

This is my question to you. If you see some guy is riding a custom eBike down a bike trail at 10 mph, and you have no idea how fast it can really go, what do you think about that?

How are you going to find out if it's faster then the agreeable speed limit on the trail, if the guy never goes over 10 mph?

 

[biknut]

I think by now I think you've figured out the obvious, there's no easy answer. If any eBike is riding down a bike trail, and the rider will not oblige you by riding it too fast, there's absolutely no way for you to know if it's an acceptable eBike or not. End of story. Unless you want to register every eBike, so lets not go there. The only thing we can do is deal with the irresponsible's, on an individual basis.

Bike trails are small potatoes in the big picture anyway. People are dying because their bikes are too slow on the street to ride in traffic. If you spend $5000 on a eBike, you ought to be able to ride it to work without getting killed.